Chicago/Penn/Berkeley Forum

[somethingElse]

Well I stand corrected. I guess it's time to re-evaluate my whole position on Penn State's Philly campus

[Stannis the Mannis]

Is rpupkin's outrageous anti-Penn bias just subtle trolling or is he for real

I haven't done any anti-Penn trolling in this thread. In general, I don't troll when someone has a legit "choosing a law school" question.

But if we're talking about rankings and sub-tiers--whether those rankings/tiers are being assigned by a magazine or by a thread of TLS posters based on selected employment data--then, yeah, I'll troll hard. Same goes for the Vault rankings.

Some of his best work is even PRO Penn...

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3#p8568112

You assume HYS is safe, but I'm less sure. I expect that California's water shortage will ultimately have a devastating effect on SLS's placement, much like the collapse of the auto industry hurt Michigan. I'm not sure if SLS will be completely out of the T6 by 2025, but I can't see it being ranked any higher than #5.

Also, Chicago has seen a recent surge due to what I term the "Ruby effect," but that will dwindle with time. Also, Chicago is not in the Ivy League. I can see Chicago still in the top 10 in 2025, but not really in the top 6.

And NYU? I mean, what can you say? Its fluky T6 run is about to come to a dramatic end. Unless NYU cuts its class size in half (which it stubbornly won't), it will be in GULC territory by 2025.

So which schools will replace Chicago and NYU? We all know Penn will be there. In fact, I think Penn may take SLS's place in the T3, assuming continued above-average precipitation in the mid-atlantic. But the real sleeper is the Big Red: Cornell. Big Law placement? Check. Ivy League? Check. Ascendant reputation among applicants? Check. Yep, I think Cornell will be there. It won't be T4 or T5, but T6? Book it.

[snm263]

Funny, I was just answering the question that the OP asked, and somehow despite all the badmouthing I was the only person who answered the question that was asked. A fact confirmed directly by the OP

Given that it took you two months to write that response, i was expecting something better. 145.

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner 3rd tier, I know you missed me. I had more important things to do like deciding between Northwestern, Cornell, UMich, the 95k from Georgetown, oh and of course the 120k from Berkeley (to mention a few). Didn't mean to disappoint you with FACTS ONLY. Wasn't trying to be creative and would tots screenshot the private thank you message from the OP saying I answered the question exactly but that would require me caring a lot more than I do. Better?

Trying to impress posters on a board that is named Top Law Schools with those acceptances is an interesting technique that will not succeed.

Just because you interpret my achievements as impressive doesn't mean my intent was to impress. Only stating facts, as per usual.

[snm263]

where's nyu

at equal cost, chi
then penn
then berk

Haven't heard back from NYU yet, but New York is a huge draw. Would you say that NYU is more competitive than Chi or Penn for biglaw? I've been getting the impression that of NYC schools, Columbia is a biglaw feeder while NYU leans more PI.
(Going to try and ride out the Columbia WL, but with a 167 LSAT it's borderline.)

Living in manhattan and working in big law for +2yrs, I'd say that if you plan on doing big law in any city other than NYC, then the school's proximity could be important. Because NYC is the largest venue for corporate law, has the most number of firms and seats to fill, it is more open than any other city to accepting most/all non-local top tier schools along with lower ranked local schools like Fordham or Brooklyn College.

So, for example, if you valued the experience of living in more than one city b/w law school and post grad (hard to believe someone could put value on experiences! Shocker, I know!), its easier to go from a non-nyc-school to an nyc-firm, than to go from an nyc-school to a non-nyc firm.

[snm263]

Great - you spent 1-2 years longer paying off loans but you get a diploma from a school that you're most proud of for the rest of your life. If you can get the opportunity to immerse yourself in a school culture and city that really interests you - you should strongly consider that.

You are a dangerous 0L. This is terrible advice and should be avoided like the plague.

And sorry, we're not going to ignore cost because OP is not concerned about it. That's the point - OP should be. We don't "ignore rankings" and help someone pick between Cooley and John Marshal.

She has received some very sage advice in this thread. Yours is not.

Ignored/unwanted advice doesn't seem all that sage.

You really don't get it, and that is terrifying.

Oh I get it, money is important. I live in America, not that difficult of a concept to get. But that's what you're not getting. Money is such an obvious factor that the OP doesn't want advice on that. The OP clearly knows that 1<2 and 2<3. The point (which you don't get) is to give advice that goes beyond basic grade school math, math to which the OP doesn't even have numbers to compute. Making it all the more irrelevant to address.
The point that I was making - and I'll use an example to help you understand - is that I would take Stanford over Cornell any day, even if Cornell gave me a full ride. Why because there are so many other factors (other than immediate money) that make Stanford more appealing to me. The OP was asking about those other factors only.

[existentialcrisis]

Great - you spent 1-2 years longer paying off loans but you get a diploma from a school that you're most proud of for the rest of your life. If you can get the opportunity to immerse yourself in a school culture and city that really interests you - you should strongly consider that.

You are a dangerous 0L. This is terrible advice and should be avoided like the plague.

And sorry, we're not going to ignore cost because OP is not concerned about it. That's the point - OP should be. We don't "ignore rankings" and help someone pick between Cooley and John Marshal.

She has received some very sage advice in this thread. Yours is not.

Ignored/unwanted advice doesn't seem all that sage.

You really don't get it, and that is terrifying.

Oh I get it, money is important. I live in America, not that difficult of a concept to get. But that's what you're not getting. Money is such an obvious factor that the OP doesn't want advice on that. The OP clearly knows that 1<2 and 2<3. The point (which you don't get) is to give advice that goes beyond basic grade school math, math to which the OP doesn't even have numbers to compute. Making it all the more irrelevant to address.
The point that I was making - and I'll use an example to help you understand - is that I would take Stanford over Cornell any day, even if Cornell gave me a full ride. Why because there are so many other factors (other than immediate money) that make Stanford more appealing to me. The OP was asking about those other factors only.

I think you are vastly overestimating the differences between law schools.

[snm263]

Great - you spent 1-2 years longer paying off loans but you get a diploma from a school that you're most proud of for the rest of your life. If you can get the opportunity to immerse yourself in a school culture and city that really interests you - you should strongly consider that.

You are a dangerous 0L. This is terrible advice and should be avoided like the plague.

And sorry, we're not going to ignore cost because OP is not concerned about it. That's the point - OP should be. We don't "ignore rankings" and help someone pick between Cooley and John Marshal.

She has received some very sage advice in this thread. Yours is not.

Ignored/unwanted advice doesn't seem all that sage.

You really don't get it, and that is terrifying.

Oh I get it, money is important. I live in America, not that difficult of a concept to get. But that's what you're not getting. Money is such an obvious factor that the OP doesn't want advice on that. The OP clearly knows that 1<2 and 2<3. The point (which you don't get) is to give advice that goes beyond basic grade school math, math to which the OP doesn't even have numbers to compute. Making it all the more irrelevant to address.
The point that I was making - and I'll use an example to help you understand - is that I would take Stanford over Cornell any day, even if Cornell gave me a full ride. Why because there are so many other factors (other than immediate money) that make Stanford more appealing to me. The OP was asking about those other factors only.

I think you are vastly overestimating the differences between law schools.

If we only consider the ranking of the school, then maaaybe I am (but probably not) but there are other factors like standard of living, California vs Ithica, International recognition if you want to travel/move, the stress of the grading system (letter grades or nah), class size, the schools social culture, long-term earning potential, non-big law employment potential, non-big law OCI reputation, etc...

[existentialcrisis]

Great - you spent 1-2 years longer paying off loans but you get a diploma from a school that you're most proud of for the rest of your life. If you can get the opportunity to immerse yourself in a school culture and city that really interests you - you should strongly consider that.

You are a dangerous 0L. This is terrible advice and should be avoided like the plague.

And sorry, we're not going to ignore cost because OP is not concerned about it. That's the point - OP should be. We don't "ignore rankings" and help someone pick between Cooley and John Marshal.

She has received some very sage advice in this thread. Yours is not.

Ignored/unwanted advice doesn't seem all that sage.

You really don't get it, and that is terrifying.

Oh I get it, money is important. I live in America, not that difficult of a concept to get. But that's what you're not getting. Money is such an obvious factor that the OP doesn't want advice on that. The OP clearly knows that 1<2 and 2<3. The point (which you don't get) is to give advice that goes beyond basic grade school math, math to which the OP doesn't even have numbers to compute. Making it all the more irrelevant to address.
The point that I was making - and I'll use an example to help you understand - is that I would take Stanford over Cornell any day, even if Cornell gave me a full ride. Why because there are so many other factors (other than immediate money) that make Stanford more appealing to me. The OP was asking about those other factors only.

I think you are vastly overestimating the differences between law schools.

If we only consider the ranking of the school, then maaaybe I am (but probably not) but there are other factors like standard of living, California vs Ithica, International recognition if you want to travel/move, the stress of the grading system (letter grades or nah), class size, the schools social culture, long-term earning potential, non-big law employment potential, non-big law OCI reputation, etc...

Location is fair. Every school drones on about their collegial culture. Grading system I'll buy, but in this case boalt's is no less stressful. Long term earning potential doesn't make any sense.

[jnwa]

Location is fair. Every school drones on about their collegial culture. Grading system I'll buy, but in this case boalt's is no less stressful. Long term earning potential doesn't make any sense.

isnt grading system that relevant..Employers still have a rough idea of how the class stacks up. Whether you call it an A or Honours, it serves the same purpose.

[snm263]

Location is fair. Every school drones on about their collegial culture. Grading system I'll buy, but in this case boalt's is no less stressful. Long term earning potential doesn't make any sense.

isnt grading system that relevant..Employers still have a rough idea of how the class stacks up. Whether you call it an A or Honours, it serves the same purpose.

Pass/Fail instead of A-F on a curve can really take the edge off, esp in an already stressful/intense environment for 3 yrs.
https://lawschooli.com/law-schools-passfail/
http://abovethelaw.com/2015/05/the-crue ... w-schools/

[existentialcrisis]

Location is fair. Every school drones on about their collegial culture. Grading system I'll buy, but in this case boalt's is no less stressful. Long term earning potential doesn't make any sense.

isnt grading system that relevant..Employers still have a rough idea of how the class stacks up. Whether you call it an A or Honours, it serves the same purpose.

Pass/Fail instead of A-F on a curve can really take the edge off, esp in an already stressful/intense environment for 3 yrs.
https://lawschooli.com/law-schools-passfail/
http://abovethelaw.com/2015/05/the-crue ... w-schools/

Yea but Berk isn't actually pass/fail, and Penn doesn't actually give A-F. Chicago does something really weird.

[SLS_AMG]

Other that going on a visit to all three schools I'd consider these 4 factors

School Culture - Chicago because it has the strongest academic culture (if you're into that)
School Name - Penn or Chicago. Penn has the Ivy brand but Chi is considered a better school
School Ranking (Law/National/International) - (Chi/Chi/Berkeley)
School Location - Totally up to you

1. Chi
2. Penn
3. Berkeley

P.S.

Anyone who keeps bringing up cost when the poster clearly says to ignore it is completely useless and annoying. Clearly $ is relevant but he/she hasn't heard back about their awards and is asking for an opinion based on something other than that. You act like if you got into Fordham and Harvard you would consider cost at all, you'd ignore it - so for the sake of helping instead of troll, try your best to not think about money, money, money.

Your post is far closer to trolling than the posts that suggest that cost should be important to the OP. I like how you can write with a straight face that Penn's name is better than Berk--and equal to Chicago--because "Penn has the Ivy brand." And then, just a few sentences later, you accuse everyone else of trolling. Pathetic.

1. I put Berkeley 3rd so what's your point?
2. Based on my research online and through asking several international students - Berkeley is very well recognized internationally (hence the breakdown between of rank based on law/national(university as a whole)/and international (university as a whole)). You should look that up before spending 4 min writing a response to something that was only posted for 5 min.
3. Grab some water because your thirst is real strong.

The true tragedy of this thread is that you somehow slipped through the cracks and got into Berkeley. I'm gonna halt my alumni donations ASAP until they stop letting trolls like you into the school.

[jnwa]

Location is fair. Every school drones on about their collegial culture. Grading system I'll buy, but in this case boalt's is no less stressful. Long term earning potential doesn't make any sense.

isnt grading system that relevant..Employers still have a rough idea of how the class stacks up. Whether you call it an A or Honours, it serves the same purpose.

Pass/Fail instead of A-F on a curve can really take the edge off, esp in an already stressful/intense environment for 3 yrs.
https://lawschooli.com/law-schools-passfail/
http://abovethelaw.com/2015/05/the-crue ... w-schools/

HYS makes sense even though ive never heard anyone describe H as non-stressful. But the grading system theoretically makes sense because there is still probably good demand for their lower ranking graduates. The placement power of the school seems to be more correlated with a non-stressful environment than a different grading policy.

I would imagine that the major cause of stress would be the effect of grades on employment prospects. Berkeley, for example has employment stats that are similar or slightly lower than their t14 peers, employers are still finding ways to distinguish. If im at Berkeley im not feeling less stressed about getting a pass vs getting a B at UVA.

If the Honors Pass LP grading system leads to more people clustered in the median range all it does is benefit the slightly below median folk at the expense of the slightly above median folk. I dont see how that reduces stress.

[snm263]

Other that going on a visit to all three schools I'd consider these 4 factors

School Culture - Chicago because it has the strongest academic culture (if you're into that)
School Name - Penn or Chicago. Penn has the Ivy brand but Chi is considered a better school
School Ranking (Law/National/International) - (Chi/Chi/Berkeley)
School Location - Totally up to you

1. Chi
2. Penn
3. Berkeley

P.S.

Anyone who keeps bringing up cost when the poster clearly says to ignore it is completely useless and annoying. Clearly $ is relevant but he/she hasn't heard back about their awards and is asking for an opinion based on something other than that. You act like if you got into Fordham and Harvard you would consider cost at all, you'd ignore it - so for the sake of helping instead of troll, try your best to not think about money, money, money.

Your post is far closer to trolling than the posts that suggest that cost should be important to the OP. I like how you can write with a straight face that Penn's name is better than Berk--and equal to Chicago--because "Penn has the Ivy brand." And then, just a few sentences later, you accuse everyone else of trolling. Pathetic.

1. I put Berkeley 3rd so what's your point?
2. Based on my research online and through asking several international students - Berkeley is very well recognized internationally (hence the breakdown between of rank based on law/national(university as a whole)/and international (university as a whole)). You should look that up before spending 4 min writing a response to something that was only posted for 5 min.
3. Grab some water because your thirst is real strong.

The true tragedy of this thread is that you somehow slipped through the cracks and got into Berkeley. I'm gonna halt my alumni donations ASAP until they stop letting trolls like you into the school.

You sure showed me. Have fun with that. It's good to know we don't have actual lawyers walking around being petty and making up excuses for keeping their money all for themselves at the expense of others. There must be a lot of cracks to fill because so far I slipped through 6 of the T14, and counting. And if you're going to troll, at least try to stay up to date with the discussion.

[rpupkin]

You sure showed me. Have fun with that. It's good to know we don't have actual lawyers walking around being petty and making up excuses for keeping their money all for themselves at the expense of others. There must be a lot of cracks to fill because so far I slipped through 6 of the T14, and counting.

Holy shit...you already got into six T14 schools, and you're still not done? By the time your cycle is over, you could be admitted to seven--maybe even eight--T14 schools.

Folks, y'all are tussling with a poster who may end up being admitted to over half of the schools in the T14. LOL@your lame efforts to best an intellectual superior.

[snm263]

You sure showed me. Have fun with that. It's good to know we don't have actual lawyers walking around being petty and making up excuses for keeping their money all for themselves at the expense of others. There must be a lot of cracks to fill because so far I slipped through 6 of the T14, and counting.

Holy shit...you already got into six T14 schools, and you're still not done? By the time your cycle is over, you could be admitted to seven--maybe even eight--T14 schools.

Folks, y'all are tussling with a poster who may end up being admitted to over half of the schools in the T14. LOL@your lame efforts to best an intellectual superior.

a) I'm not announcing my acceptances for the sake of bragging. I'm simply replying to someone who felt the need to undermine my hard work by claiming I don't deserve it and that Berk made a mistake in accepting me. I responded by informing that person that my acceptance wasn't a one-off incident, but a reoccurring one.
b) Why did you edit my post? The motivation behind my statement would be obvious if you didn't manipulate and cut the thread for your own trolling benefit.
c) You have ceased to say anything helpful for several post now. All you do is address me, but that's what PM is for.

[rpupkin]

c) You have ceased to say anything helpful for several post now. All you do is address me, but that's what PM is for.

Painfully ironic.

[snm263]

c) You have ceased to say anything helpful for several post now. All you do is address me, but that's what PM is for.

Painfully ironic.

Not really. I very recently wrote a post about pass/fail vs. letter grades as well as a post about the NYC job market vs the job market for other cities; neither of which were related to anything you said, because that would require you to say something constructive.

[suralin]

stop

[bretby]

I went to NYU for undergrad and got into Berkeley. I'm seriously considering Berkeley because after living in NYC for 7 years, a change would be good- even if it's only for 3 years - and despite believing NYC is the best city in the world.
Consider allowing yourself the opportunity to try something new.

I agree 100% that school should not be predominately about cost. I'm not rich or even well off and cost would still be the last factor when considering a school.
Great - you spent 1-2 years longer paying off loans but you get a diploma from a school that you're most proud of for the rest of your life. If you can get the opportunity to immerse yourself in a school culture and city that really interests you - you should strongly consider that.

Consider these 4 factors

School Culture - Chicago because it has the strongest academic culture (if you're into that)
School Name - Penn or Chicago. Penn is Ivy brand but Chi is considered a better school
School Ranking (Law/National/International) - (Chi/Chi/Berkeley)
School Location - Totally up to you

1. Chi
2. Penn
3. Berkeley

P.S.

Anyone who keeps bringing up cost when the OP clearly says to ignore it is completely useless and annoying.Obv $ is relevant but the OP hasn't heard back about her financial awards and is asking for an opinion based on something other than that. You guys act like if you got into Harvard and a full ride at Fordham you would consider cost at all - so if you can't manage to wrap your head around something other than the mighty dollar, don't bother trolling.

Maybe you wouldn't consider the cost, but a lot of other people would. The mighty dollar is not monopoly money.

[jbagelboy]

stop shilling for us news

Ranking and name of school are incredibly stupid

[Nebby]

snm ur p dumb bro just stop posting

[snm263]

snm ur p dumb bro just stop posting

got it will do

[snm263]

stop shilling for us news

Ranking and name of school are incredibly stupid

why are you on this forum/website? sounds like it'd be pretty useless to you given the name/content/purpose.

[hairbear7]

ROFL 6 of the T14 isn't even half what a goober