Chicago/Penn/Berkeley Forum

[melekal]

West-coast gal interested in clerking, then east-coast (NYC preferred) biglaw. Anticipate that I'll love it, but want the option to move back west to settle down/escape frostbite/run away if/when my granola self can't deal with the brusqueness of it all.

Still awaiting $$, but it is not a deciding factor for me. Would take the right school and fit at sticker.

Pros, as I see it:
Chi: Ranking, quarter system, bookish culture, placement (clerking & otherwise?)
Penn: Prestige (lols), biglaw placement, Philly (double lols), access to Wharton (triple lols, if I was in to the JD/MBA it probably wouldn't be a question here)
Berkeley: West coast, diversity, west coast placement, sunshine, hippies, more granola (but actually, culture is huge for me)

WL'ed at Columbia, so anticipating that these will be my best options. Also, I have this weird attachment to good ole Georgetown and I can't seem to get rid of it. Might be the Madam Secretary binge-ing of late.

Any insight/trolling/sharing/commiserating is appreciated.

[acr]

lol @ casually discarding money as unimportant; I honestly don't understand people in your position who can seemingly just turn their nose and essentially ignore financial implications when it concerns ~3 years of your future and ~$250,000K

[L’Étranger]

Trying to imagine a situation where $$ would not be a deciding factor. Or rather that lawschool "fit" matters...and FWIW, I went to B.

[melekal]

Very fair; for what it is worth I am not trying to be purposefully flippant. Very aware of COA, but planning on paying my own way if necessary. Though if it's naive to say that one should pick a school based on "fit", I appreciate the perspective.

[rpupkin]

Very fair; for what it is worth I am not trying to be purposefully flippant. Very aware of COA, but planning on paying my own way if necessary. Though if it's naive to say that one should pick a school based on "fit", I appreciate the perspective.

There's nothing wrong with picking a school based on subjective "fit" if all other things are equal. If COA ends up roughly the same at all three schools, then, sure, pick the school based on fit, or the city you want to live in for three years, or whatever. But it's hard to imagine a situation where perceived fit is worth tens of thousands (let alone a couple hundred thousand) of dollars of debt. If one of those three schools ends up being significantly cheaper than the other two, go to the cheaper one.

[landshoes]

Have you visited the schools? If culture and fit are important to you, that's what I'd suggest.

[fliptrip]

Sounds to me like you don't really think much of what Penn has to offer, and I'm not sure why they are still on your list considering cost isn't a consideration. Just curious, have you ever been to Philly? Not sure how Wharton being there is going to help or matter, especially when both Berkeley and Chicago have pretty damn good business schools.

[jbagelboy]

If one of those three schools ends up being significantly cheaper than the other two, go to the cheaper one.

[jbagelboy]

what matters at all:

Pros, as I see it:
Chi: Ranking, quarter system, bookish culture, placement (clerking & otherwise?)
Penn: Prestige (lols),biglaw placement, Philly (double lols), access to Wharton (triple lols, if I was in to the JD/MBA it probably wouldn't be a question here)
Berkeley: West coast, diversity,west coast placement, sunshine, hippies, more granola (but actually, culture is huge for me)
Cost

[pterodactyls]

If culture is a big factor for you, do you plan on visiting the three of them? I would, especially if there's any travel reimbursement available. It's hard to get a feel for culture from a website/brochure.

[krads153]

Are you rich? I don't get this thread.

lol @ casually discarding money as unimportant; I honestly don't understand people in your position who can seemingly just turn their nose and essentially ignore financial implications when it concerns ~3 years of your future and ~$250,000K

A part of me is curious to see the consequences 5 years down the line when they owe like $300k and can't stand their job (assuming they are paying with loans).

[melekal]

Thanks for the feedback -- I have visited the cities, but am planning on doing ASWs next month & April to get a feel for the schools themselves. Really appreciate the advice. I suppose I was curious as to if the whole "fit" question factors into others' decisions, or if cost is the motivating factor for most.

[WheninLaw]

West-coast gal interested in clerking, then east-coast (NYC preferred) biglaw. Anticipate that I'll love it, but want the option to move back west to settle down/escape frostbite/run away if/when my granola self can't deal with the brusqueness of it all.

Still awaiting $$, but it is not a deciding factor for me. Would take the right school and fit at sticker.

Pros, as I see it:
Chi: Ranking, quarter system, bookish culture, placement (clerking & otherwise?)
Penn: Prestige (lols), biglaw placement, Philly (double lols), access to Wharton (triple lols, if I was in to the JD/MBA it probably wouldn't be a question here)
Berkeley: West coast, diversity, west coast placement, sunshine, hippies, more granola (but actually, culture is huge for me)

WL'ed at Columbia, so anticipating that these will be my best options. Also, I have this weird attachment to good ole Georgetown and I can't seem to get rid of it. Might be the Madam Secretary binge-ing of late.

Any insight/trolling/sharing/commiserating is appreciated.

Sorry, couldn't help but roll my eyes at this. Anticipate that you'll love NY Biglaw? Ok.

All that should matter is $$.

[NUDad]

I recommend Bezerkeley for left coasters.

[whysoseriousbiglaw]

Philly as a plus? The OP must be a troll.

[03152016]

.

[snm263]

I went to NYU for undergrad and got into Berkeley. I'm seriously considering Berkeley because after living in NYC for 7 years, a change would be good- even if it's only for 3 years - and despite believing NYC is the best city in the world.
Consider allowing yourself the opportunity to try something new.

I agree 100% that school should not be predominately about cost. I'm not rich or even well off and cost would still be the last factor when considering a school.
Great - you spent 1-2 years longer paying off loans but you get a diploma from a school that you're most proud of for the rest of your life. If you can get the opportunity to immerse yourself in a school culture and city that really interests you - you should strongly consider that.

Consider these 4 factors

School Culture - Chicago because it has the strongest academic culture (if you're into that)
School Name - Penn or Chicago. Penn is Ivy brand but Chi is considered a better school
School Ranking (Law/National/International) - (Chi/Chi/Berkeley)
School Location - Totally up to you

1. Chi
2. Penn
3. Berkeley

P.S.

Anyone who keeps bringing up cost when the OP clearly says to ignore it is completely useless and annoying.Obv $ is relevant but the OP hasn't heard back about her financial awards and is asking for an opinion based on something other than that. You guys act like if you got into Harvard and a full ride at Fordham you would consider cost at all - so if you can't manage to wrap your head around something other than the mighty dollar, don't bother trolling.

[Mullens]

School culture should put Chicago squarely at the bottom of any list based on that.

[rpupkin]

I went to NYU for undergrad and got into Berkeley and I am seriously considering Berkeley because after living in NYC for 7 years, I am ready for a change - even if it's only for three years - and despite thinking NYC is the best city in the world.
I think you should consider allowing yourself the opportunity to try something new.

I agree with you 100% that school should not be predominately about cost. I'm not rich or even well off and cost would still be the last factor when considering a school.
Great - you spent 1-2 years longer paying off loans but you get a diploma from a school that you're most proud of for the rest of your life. If you can get the opportunity to immerse yourself in a school culture and city that really interests you - you should strongly consider that.

Other that going on a visit to all three schools I'd consider these 4 factors

School Culture - Chicago because it has the strongest academic culture (if you're into that)
School Name - Penn or Chicago. Penn has the Ivy brand but Chi is considered a better school
School Ranking (Law/National/International) - (Chi/Chi/Berkeley)
School Location - Totally up to you

1. Chi
2. Penn
3. Berkeley

P.S.

Anyone who keeps bringing up cost when the poster clearly says to ignore it is completely useless and annoying. Clearly $ is relevant but he/she hasn't heard back about their awards and is asking for an opinion based on something other than that. You act like if you got into Fordham and Harvard you would consider cost at all, you'd ignore it - so for the sake of helping instead of troll, try your best to not think about money, money, money.

Your post is far closer to trolling than the posts that suggest that cost should be important to the OP. I like how you can write with a straight face that Penn's name is better than Berk--and equal to Chicago--because "Penn has the Ivy brand." And then, just a few sentences later, you accuse everyone else of trolling. Pathetic.

[WheninLaw]

Great - you spent 1-2 years longer paying off loans but you get a diploma from a school that you're most proud of for the rest of your life. If you can get the opportunity to immerse yourself in a school culture and city that really interests you - you should strongly consider that.

You are a dangerous 0L. This is terrible advice and should be avoided like the plague.

And sorry, we're not going to ignore cost because OP is not concerned about it. That's the point - OP should be. We don't "ignore rankings" and help someone pick between Cooley and John Marshal.

She has received some very sage advice in this thread. Yours is not.

[krads153]

I went to NYU for undergrad and got into Berkeley and I am seriously considering Berkeley because after living in NYC for 7 years, I am ready for a change - even if it's only for three years - and despite thinking NYC is the best city in the world.
I think you should consider allowing yourself the opportunity to try something new.

I agree with you 100% that school should not be predominately about cost. I'm not rich or even well off and cost would still be the last factor when considering a school.
Great - you spent 1-2 years longer paying off loans but you get a diploma from a school that you're most proud of for the rest of your life. If you can get the opportunity to immerse yourself in a school culture and city that really interests you - you should strongly consider that.

Other that going on a visit to all three schools I'd consider these 4 factors

School Culture - Chicago because it has the strongest academic culture (if you're into that)
School Name - Penn or Chicago. Penn has the Ivy brand but Chi is considered a better school
School Ranking (Law/National/International) - (Chi/Chi/Berkeley)
School Location - Totally up to you

1. Chi
2. Penn
3. Berkeley

P.S.

Anyone who keeps bringing up cost when the poster clearly says to ignore it is completely useless and annoying. Clearly $ is relevant but he/she hasn't heard back about their awards and is asking for an opinion based on something other than that. You act like if you got into Fordham and Harvard you would consider cost at all, you'd ignore it - so for the sake of helping instead of troll, try your best to not think about money, money, money.

Your post is far closer to trolling than the posts that suggest that cost should be important to the OP. I like how you can write with a straight face that Penn's name is better than Berk--and equal to Chicago--because "Penn has the Ivy brand." And then, just a few sentences later, you accuse everyone else of trolling. Pathetic.

To be fair, Penn State is pretty well known across the country. Hail to the Lion!

[snm263]

Other that going on a visit to all three schools I'd consider these 4 factors

School Culture - Chicago because it has the strongest academic culture (if you're into that)
School Name - Penn or Chicago. Penn has the Ivy brand but Chi is considered a better school
School Ranking (Law/National/International) - (Chi/Chi/Berkeley)
School Location - Totally up to you

1. Chi
2. Penn
3. Berkeley

P.S.

Anyone who keeps bringing up cost when the poster clearly says to ignore it is completely useless and annoying. Clearly $ is relevant but he/she hasn't heard back about their awards and is asking for an opinion based on something other than that. You act like if you got into Fordham and Harvard you would consider cost at all, you'd ignore it - so for the sake of helping instead of troll, try your best to not think about money, money, money.

Your post is far closer to trolling than the posts that suggest that cost should be important to the OP. I like how you can write with a straight face that Penn's name is better than Berk--and equal to Chicago--because "Penn has the Ivy brand." And then, just a few sentences later, you accuse everyone else of trolling. Pathetic.

1. I put Berkeley 3rd so what's your point?
2. Based on my research online and through asking several international students - Berkeley is very well recognized internationally (hence the breakdown between of rank based on law/national(university as a whole)/and international (university as a whole)). You should look that up before spending 4 min writing a response to something that was only posted for 5 min.
3. Grab some water because your thirst is real strong.

[rpupkin]

Well based on my research online and through asking several international people - Berkely is very well recognized internationally (hence the breakdown between of rank based on law/national(university as a whole)/and international (university as a whole). You should probably look that up before spending 4 min writing a response to something that was only up for 5 min. And grab some water because your thirst is real strong.

Now you've shifted from "bad advice" mode to "non sequitur" mode. I have no idea why you think any of the above is relevant to the OP's decision. And I certainly don't understand why you feel comfortable giving an applicant strong advice (and insulting the advice of others!) based on a combination of online research and a few conversations with "international people"--whatever that means.

Also, I don't understand the "your thirst is real strong" remark. I think it's supposed to be some kind of insult. In any event, you reminded me to get a glass of water, so thanks.

[snm263]

Great - you spent 1-2 years longer paying off loans but you get a diploma from a school that you're most proud of for the rest of your life. If you can get the opportunity to immerse yourself in a school culture and city that really interests you - you should strongly consider that.

You are a dangerous 0L. This is terrible advice and should be avoided like the plague.

And sorry, we're not going to ignore cost because OP is not concerned about it. That's the point - OP should be. We don't "ignore rankings" and help someone pick between Cooley and John Marshal.

She has received some very sage advice in this thread. Yours is not.

Ignored/unwanted advice doesn't seem all that sage.

[snm263]

Well based on my research online and through asking several international people - Berkely is very well recognized internationally (hence the breakdown between of rank based on law/national(university as a whole)/and international (university as a whole). You should probably look that up before spending 4 min writing a response to something that was only up for 5 min. And grab some water because your thirst is real strong.

Now you've shifted from "bad advice" mode to "non sequitur" mode. I have no idea why you think any of the above is relevant to the OP's decision. And I certainly don't understand why you feel comfortable giving an applicant strong advice (and insulting the advice of others!) based on a combination of online research and a few conversations with "international people"--whatever that means.

Also, I don't understand the "your thirst is real strong" remark. I think it's supposed to be some kind of insult. In any event, you reminded me to get a glass of water, so thanks.

How is what I provided NOT relevant but the information that was asked NOT to be provided somehow more relevant.

And it seems like the fact that the OP doesn't know what her financial reward will be yet (so therefore can't factor it in) is being ignored.

You're welcome, hydration is important.