Getting my priorities in order Forum

[Unfathomableruckus]

Hey I'm choosing my law school. I have enough offers to start thinking seriously but before I go ahead with that, I need to think about what's most important to me and make a smart series of compromises.

I'm 3.54, 168 and I think I must have quite awesome soft factors because so far it looks like I have "outperformed my numbers" a bit as far as scholarship offers.

Scholarship is very important to me, because I work with impoverished undocumented refugees, and that's what I'm going to law school for. Future income prospects is not that much of a factor, as I am confident that I can make the amount of money that myself and my family needs after law school. However, I'm not sure I can make that plus an expensive student loan payment.

However, job opportunities are a factor, and I don't want to "close doors" for myself unnecessarily. If I could maybe one day have an effect on the "push factor" driving people to seek refuge from Guatemala in a new country in the first place, I would really like to do that.

I don't want to gamble on LRAP. Taking a fully at a local unranked is tempting, but with a high stip. I could keep my job and take night classes, helping me stay at my org getting my (very relevant) experience in. I'd have no debt as long as I kept the GPA, and I have had two colleagues at the org that went to school there and nobody treats them any differently for it. I also have a very good scholarship to a local T1, waiting on admission from the local T14 (yes you all probably know what I'm talking about but at least I have my semblance of not running my mouth-fingers on TLS).

I have full rides or nearly at a few geographically scattered T2s and T3s, but most of these have easy or no stips.

Admitted to my favorite school (because of relevant programs and great PI culture. It's a top 20, so not the highest rank I applied to) but waiting on scholarships. I'd have to move to go there, and I'm not sure what my absolute lower limit should be to justify attending and taking on debt, quitting my job and moving my family.

Present your golden nuggets of wisdom so that I may munch on them.

[lymenheimer]

READ BEFORE POSTING IN THIS FORUM: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 1&t=206299

In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:

-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT

I see that you've answered a couple of these questions. Answering all of them would be very helpful in us being helpful for you.

[cron1834]

If you have a 168, there's no reason why "unranked schools" or TTTs should be in the mix. Also, your goals are for competitive/uncommon jobs, which are probably not get-able from those schools anyway.

You probably don't want to hear this, but in order for a school to be both a) good enough for your needs and b) affordable enough, you might need a few more LSAT points to help counter that GPA. Maybe this is negated if your T1 scholarship is full (or close) and actually has some kind of record of getting good PI placement.

More info needed.

[Unfathomableruckus]

If you have a 168, there's no reason why "unranked schools" or TTTs should be in the mix. Also, your goals are for competitive/uncommon jobs, which are probably not get-able from those schools anyway.

You probably don't want to hear this, but in order for a school to be both a) good enough for your needs and b) affordable enough, you might need a few more LSAT points to help counter that GPA. Maybe this is negated if your T1 scholarship is full (or close) and actually has some kind of record of getting good PI placement.

More info needed.

Hey thanks. So I'm not saying what the schools are because some of them have specifically requested confidentiality about my scholarship offers. I got a 164 on my first try a couple of years ago and 168 after a few months of pretty hardcore studying. I am definitely going to law school this year. I'm not afraid if not getting work. There is a large demand for people with my skills and I always have more work opportunities than I want or need. Being a lawyer would just make me able to do more things in my career. This is why TTTTs are even a consideration. I'm sure that I would get hired at my org coming out of one, or that I could go into private practice. I have an almost full scholarship from a low T1, but it's definitely not my favorite school...

[Winter is Coming]

If you have a 168, there's no reason why "unranked schools" or TTTs should be in the mix. Also, your goals are for competitive/uncommon jobs, which are probably not get-able from those schools anyway.

You probably don't want to hear this, but in order for a school to be both a) good enough for your needs and b) affordable enough, you might need a few more LSAT points to help counter that GPA. Maybe this is negated if your T1 scholarship is full (or close) and actually has some kind of record of getting good PI placement.

More info needed.

Hey thanks. So I'm not saying what the schools are because some of them have specifically requested confidentiality about my scholarship offers. I got a 164 on my first try a couple of years ago and 168 after a few months of pretty hardcore studying. I am definitely going to law school this year. I'm not afraid if not getting work. There is a large demand for people with my skills and I always have more work opportunities than I want or need. Being a lawyer would just make me able to do more things in my career. This is why TTTTs are even a consideration. I'm sure that I would get hired at my org coming out of one, or that I could go into private practice. I have an almost full scholarship from a low T1, but it's definitely not my favorite school...

Is this a thing now?

[twenty]

specifically requested confidentiality about my scholarship offers.

Ahahaha, holy shiiiiiiiit. Turn this school down immediately and send the offer over to ATL.

[Unfathomableruckus]

specifically requested confidentiality about my scholarship offers.

Ahahaha, holy shiiiiiiiit. Turn this school down immediately and send the offer over to ATL.

Sorry what do you mean ATL? Atlanta? I know. I thought it was a little bootsy on their part to ask me not to talk about the scholarship offer, but I'm trying to keep my options open and not piss anyone off uneccesarily.

[Unfathomableruckus]

specifically requested confidentiality about my scholarship offers.

Ahahaha, holy shiiiiiiiit. Turn this school down immediately and send the offer over to ATL.

Sorry what do you mean ATL? Atlanta? I know. I thought it was a little bootsy on their part to ask me not to talk about the scholarship offer, but I'm trying to keep my options open and not piss anyone off uneccesarily.

Oh derp. You meant above the law...

[rinkrat19]

specifically requested confidentiality about my scholarship offers.

Ahahaha, holy shiiiiiiiit. Turn this school down immediately and send the offer over to ATL.

Sorry what do you mean ATL? Atlanta? I know. I thought it was a little bootsy on their part to ask me not to talk about the scholarship offer, but I'm trying to keep my options open and not piss anyone off uneccesarily.

Abovethelaw.com, legal news/gossip site.

[Tls2016]

Don't go to any school with a stipulation on your scholarship.

Rank isn't as important as getting experience and keeping debt low for your career. You might want to broaden your experience beyond where you are already working. That said, throw out the unranked schools. I just mean don't chase the highest rank for no reason.

It's almost impossible to tell you any advice as to how much to spend. You are probably going to have to rely on some kind of loan forgiveness from a PI job or PAYE from whatever practice you can get.

I'm surprised to hear that you will always find work because my understanding was that PI work was uncertain. That's great for you.

[Winter is Coming]

specifically requested confidentiality about my scholarship offers.

Ahahaha, holy shiiiiiiiit. Turn this school down immediately and send the offer over to ATL.

This really is a peak of bad behavior for law school ad comms. All joking aside the school should be outed and shamed.

[Tls2016]

specifically requested confidentiality about my scholarship offers.

Ahahaha, holy shiiiiiiiit. Turn this school down immediately and send the offer over to ATL.

This really is a peak of bad behavior for law school ad comms. All joking aside the school should be outed and shamed.

OP should wait until she knows what she is doing. Blowing up a school is a bad idea.

[landshoes]

Absolutely no to stipulations. Too risky.

I hope you applied to everywhere in the T-14, since you sound like someone who could outperform your numbers wrt both admissions and scholarships.

[rinkrat19]

specifically requested confidentiality about my scholarship offers.

Ahahaha, holy shiiiiiiiit. Turn this school down immediately and send the offer over to ATL.

This really is a peak of bad behavior for law school ad comms. All joking aside the school should be outed and shamed.

OP should wait until she knows what she is doing. Blowing up a school is a bad idea.

I definitely just read that as "Blowing up a school bus is a bad idea." Yes, yes it is.

[landshoes]

also even an "easy" stip at a T-2 or a T-3 where you have to move your whole family is a way bigger gamble than a T-14 LRAP program, IMO

I hope you applied to everywhere in the T-14, you seem like the type of person who could snag a decent scholarship there/outperform your numbers. Sometimes higher ranked schools give out more money because they have more resources.

[cron1834]

If you have a 168, there's no reason why "unranked schools" or TTTs should be in the mix. Also, your goals are for competitive/uncommon jobs, which are probably not get-able from those schools anyway.

You probably don't want to hear this, but in order for a school to be both a) good enough for your needs and b) affordable enough, you might need a few more LSAT points to help counter that GPA. Maybe this is negated if your T1 scholarship is full (or close) and actually has some kind of record of getting good PI placement.

More info needed.

Hey thanks. So I'm not saying what the schools are because some of them have specifically requested confidentiality about my scholarship offers. I got a 164 on my first try a couple of years ago and 168 after a few months of pretty hardcore studying. I am definitely going to law school this year. I'm not afraid if not getting work. There is a large demand for people with my skills and I always have more work opportunities than I want or need. Being a lawyer would just make me able to do more things in my career. This is why TTTTs are even a consideration. I'm sure that I would get hired at my org coming out of one, or that I could go into private practice. I have an almost full scholarship from a low T1, but it's definitely not my favorite school...

I'm pretty skeptical that lawyer hiring and/or starting your own practice is as easy as non-lawyer opportunities have been for you. It's hard to have a lot of confidence in that. If it's true, though, then just go to any school that's free. I'm not sure what you're asking? You seem to be describing a situation where you're going to automatically get work ... so what do you need help with?

[Unfathomableruckus]

If you have a 168, there's no reason why "unranked schools" or TTTs should be in the mix. Also, your goals are for competitive/uncommon jobs, which are probably not get-able from those schools anyway.

You probably don't want to hear this, but in order for a school to be both a) good enough for your needs and b) affordable enough, you might need a few more LSAT points to help counter that GPA. Maybe this is negated if your T1 scholarship is full (or close) and actually has some kind of record of getting good PI placement.

More info needed.

Hey thanks. So I'm not saying what the schools are because some of them have specifically requested confidentiality about my scholarship offers. I got a 164 on my first try a couple of years ago and 168 after a few months of pretty hardcore studying. I am definitely going to law school this year. I'm not afraid if not getting work. There is a large demand for people with my skills and I always have more work opportunities than I want or need. Being a lawyer would just make me able to do more things in my career. This is why TTTTs are even a consideration. I'm sure that I would get hired at my org coming out of one, or that I could go into private practice. I have an almost full scholarship from a low T1, but it's definitely not my favorite school...

I'm pretty skeptical that lawyer hiring and/or starting your own practice is as easy as non-lawyer opportunities have been for you. It's hard to have a lot of confidence in that. If it's true, though, then just go to any school that's free. I'm not sure what you're asking? You seem to be describing a situation where you're going to automatically get work ... so what do you need help with?

So I can speak the indigenous language of a community that was targeted for genocide and who often qualify for asylum. They all give each other my number. I have a lot of connections in the community already and am forever giving out the numbers of lawyers to them (for the types of cases we don't take at our organization.) Sometimes, I even help them out at their first appointment to make sure everybody is understanding each other. I am well aware of what these lawyers tend to charge, and how much work these cases take. (We do asylum cases at my org and because I have BIA accreditation, I have represented clients myself in these and other cases many times) That's why I'm not tripping on jobs (but this does, of course, make being in an area with people from the relevant population very important).
Many lawyers that have been staff at my org went to TTTTs or other non-T14s. Those that didn't don't make more money or get more respect... I'd like to stay with my nonprofit but private practice would be a backup plan or a side thing ideally.

[Unfathomableruckus]

If you have a 168, there's no reason why "unranked schools" or TTTs should be in the mix. Also, your goals are for competitive/uncommon jobs, which are probably not get-able from those schools anyway.

You probably don't want to hear this, but in order for a school to be both a) good enough for your needs and b) affordable enough, you might need a few more LSAT points to help counter that GPA. Maybe this is negated if your T1 scholarship is full (or close) and actually has some kind of record of getting good PI placement.

More info needed.

Hey thanks. So I'm not saying what the schools are because some of them have specifically requested confidentiality about my scholarship offers. I got a 164 on my first try a couple of years ago and 168 after a few months of pretty hardcore studying. I am definitely going to law school this year. I'm not afraid if not getting work. There is a large demand for people with my skills and I always have more work opportunities than I want or need. Being a lawyer would just make me able to do more things in my career. This is why TTTTs are even a consideration. I'm sure that I would get hired at my org coming out of one, or that I could go into private practice. I have an almost full scholarship from a low T1, but it's definitely not my favorite school...

I'm pretty skeptical that lawyer hiring and/or starting your own practice is as easy as non-lawyer opportunities have been for you. It's hard to have a lot of confidence in that. If it's true, though, then just go to any school that's free. I'm not sure what you're asking? You seem to be describing a situation where you're going to automatically get work ... so what do you need help with?

And sorry, what I need help with is setting up a good standard of prioritizing certain factors of selection over others. I've gotten some good ideas so far, like do not do stips, which is my first instinct too.

[Unfathomableruckus]

also even an "easy" stip at a T-2 or a T-3 where you have to move your whole family is a way bigger gamble than a T-14 LRAP program, IMO

I hope you applied to everywhere in the T-14, you seem like the type of person who could snag a decent scholarship there/outperform your numbers. Sometimes higher ranked schools give out more money because they have more resources.

I only applied to 2 T14s and 3 T20s like 3 between 14-20. IDK my plan was always to get a full ride at the best school I could go to whe staying at my org, but it's all gotten a little blurry now...

[Unfathomableruckus]

Absolutely no to stipulations. Too risky.

I hope you applied to everywhere in the T-14, since you sound like someone who could outperform your numbers wrt both admissions and scholarships.

Thanks for the solid advice. I think it would stress me out and be an unhealthy environment, but the idea of keeping working at my org is super tempting. I'm going to rule out stips as a dealbreaker and only go to one of those if they remove the stip.

[cron1834]

I don't see how you do anything other than the T1. It's a near-full ride, it's local, and it's not an unranked school. Is there any other school that can check all three of those boxes?

Unless there's a ridiculous GPA stipulation, this seem like a no-brainer.

[Unfathomableruckus]

I don't see how you do anything other than the T1. It's a near-full ride, it's local, and it's not an unranked school. Is there any other school that can check all three of those boxes?

Unless there's a ridiculous GPA stipulation, this seem like a no-brainer.

Yeah I feel it. That makes a lot of sense. Funny enough, it's the one that I'm not supposed to talk about my scholarship to, and it might not be T1 for long...

[cron1834]

If it's T1 or T2 (these distinctions get pretty meaningless at the margins ...) it's clearly better than an unranked school. And it's nearly-free tuition. The gag rule is weird AF, but it doesn't mean the school isn't your best option. You can keep your job and your money and avoid debt and avoid the TTT stain.

[Unfathomableruckus]

If it's T1 or T2 (these distinctions get pretty meaningless at the margins ...) it's clearly better than an unranked school. And it's nearly-free tuition. The gag rule is weird AF, but it doesn't mean the school isn't your best option. You can keep your job and your money and avoid debt and avoid the TTT stain.

That is probably the most sensible choice. I'm going to make negotiating with them a priority to try and get a full ride and if I can and my favorite school doesn't give me a certain amount (to be determined... more than half?) then I'd probably have to pick that one. Thanks.

[landshoes]

ha ha sorry to weirdly tell you the same thing twice

here's my advice. You're clearly talented, interesting, and have a lot of experience.

1. Aim higher. You have the numbers and softs for it, IMO. You don't have to go to every school that admits you, but you should give yourself a full range of options. There's still time to apply to most of the T-14s.

2. Think beyond the short-term. You need the ability to transition to another legal field in case the geopolitical situation changes and your niche is no longer in demand. That means that you have to look at career prospects outside of your exact immediate field. Any old degree might work for where you are now, and that's great, but would it give you any kind of career mobility if things change? You've indicated that the school is on the way down. That's a really bad sign. I have a friend who went to American when it was a decent school, and she really regrets it because it looks terrible on her resume and there's nothing she can do about it.

3. Think beyond your specific legal niche. I can tell you want to do something more ambitious. Think long and hard about whether you're selling your ambitions short, and if so, why.

4. You have a family. Working and going to school part-time, while trying to make sure you fulfill stipulations? That sounds insane to me. And stipulations might sound "easy" but if they were so "easy" to get past, why would schools have them?

5. Negotiate, negotiate, negotiate. Tell them you won't do stipulations. Tell them you want a stipend. If they're really bottom of the T1, your numbers and your employability make you an insanely good candidate. If you're going to go there--and I suggest you don't--you at least need to go there with a guaranteed scholarship and a decent amount of your living expenses paid.