Any Thoughts Forum

[Dann-O]

Long time lurker, first time poster. Was wondering people’s thoughts/ideas on my situation. Sorry if this sounds like an LSAT essay prompt.

BACKGROUND: older law school applicant. Have been a paralegal at a couple law firms (V-50 in NYC, V-10 in LA, currently at boutique firm in NYC). I pretty much have three options:

1- go to school part time in NYC and stay at my current firm. This firm offered to pay TUITION ONLY at a lower ranked local school (i.e. NYLS) provided that (i) I stay employed with them throughout my law school career, and (ii) I work for them for four years after I graduate (I could get out early if I repaid them my tuition). I would continue to draw a salary throughout school, receive many perks (i.e. promotion to law clerk once school begins, guaranteed 1L and 2L job, guaranteed associate job, but at roughly 80% of biglaw pay). The only problem is that the bulk of the people I in my group are complete assholes and throw temper tantrums left and right. I am currently shielded from these people whenever “my partner” is busy (which is 8-10 months of the year), but I would probably need to work with them after graduation.

2 - go to school part time in NYC and move to a different firm (somewhere in the V-15). I know people in this firm, and pretty have been offered a position by the head of my practice group (if I apply). The deal offered to me is strict 9-5 schedule, guaranteed 1L job (nothing guaranteed beyond), but the department head alluded to more if I proved myself while in school. This would definitely be a better name to have on my resume, but I already have big names on my resume with stability, good recommendations, etc.

3 – relocate. Have half-tuition scholarship to part-time program in SoCal (“good standing” stipulation). I would need to move, find job, etc. If I pursue this option, my current job would guarantee me 1L job and 2L job, and “serious consideration” for a full-time position because they don’t normally consider people from California schools [would only take them up on this if I couldn't find something on my own]. They would, however, provide me assistance finding further work in SoCal or wherever I land.

CONSIDERATIONS: (A) family is on the east coast. If I stayed in NY I could find a way to live for next to nothing. (B) no attachments (my fiancée just came out as gay - no hard feelings though). Because of this, I am considering the long-distance move a little more seriously. (C) SoCal has been a dream of mine for a while, but I would be starting over/fresh. (D) I don’t like NYC very much (If I stayed in NYC for school, the end game would be to move to DC as soon as possible).

GOALS: probably to work in a firm/company on transactional matters. I think in my current field, I am limited to larger banking centers in the USA (NY, Chicago, SF, LA) and probably DC. Prefer to be in NYC for as short a time as possible.

PS - required forum information from sticky:
- Total Cost of Attendance: option 1 - lets say $100k; option 2 - lets say $100k; option 3 - lets say $125k
- How you will be financing your COA: option 1 - firm "scholarship" (see above). Tap savings for anything else; option 2 - $50k from savings, $50k debt; option 3 - $50k savings, $75k debt.
-Where you are from [NJ] and where you want to work [DC, LA, SD], and other places where you have significant ties [NY, Charlotte]
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers [LSAT 168; GPA 2.9 <-- long story. Enjoyed undergraduate too much.]

PPS - If you have any questions, please PM. I have given as much info as I feel comfortable giving in public.

PPPS – my apologies if the above comes off as humble-bragging or as anything but a sincere request for advice. I have busted my ass working as a paralegal. I enjoy my field and many/most of the people I have come into contact with in this field, and could see myself being happy as an attorney in this field. I have a decent number of contacts who are encouraging me to finally pursue my degree and who have cobbled together offers to help me. I just don’t feel like I should be discussing competing offers with them.

[GreenEggs]

lol why would the firm only pay for a lower-ranked law school? Why not NYU?

[smile0751]

Why not just apply to all the schools that make sense based on geographic preferences/LSAT/GPA and then take the best scholarship offer? I guess why is there such a focus on the part-time aspect?

[SamuelDanforth]

lol why would the firm only pay for a lower-ranked law school? Why not NYU?

NYU's 509 doesn't show any part-time students. I assume that these various paralegal "scholarships" require the student to continue to work, and therefore will only pay for schools in NYC that offer part-time programs.

[Dann-O]

lol why would the firm only pay for a lower-ranked law school? Why not NYU?

Ties to NYLS from the folks that penned the offer.

[Dann-O]

Why not just apply to all the schools that make sense based on geographic preferences/LSAT/GPA and then take the best scholarship offer?

There aren't many. NY: Fordham, Cardozo, NYLS (see above, offer is to NYLS because of ties of higher ups. I could conceivably do Fordham and Cardozo with option 2); DC: Georgetown (UGPA closes this door), GWU (UGPA closes this door), American (No), Catholic (No), Mason (maybe); LA: LLS; San Diego: USD.

I guess why is there such a focus on the part-time aspect?

Focus on part-time is to keep debt load low. Also, job while at school provides access to resources that I might not otherwise want to pay for.

[Nagster5]

Georgetown (UGPA closes this door), GWU (UGPA closes this door),

I'm in at Georgetown (and much better) and my GPA is lower than yous by a good bit. If you're set on PT, GULC is not out of the question if you're willing to retake, and DC seems like a better fit for you than SoCal.

[cron1834]

This is one of the more bizarre posts that I've seen.

A scholarship that is limited to shit schools is not worthwhile. Why not just ball out on the LSAT and get scholarships at good schools? Then you don't have to pay for tuition, don't have to be a part time paralegal, and will have more job opportunities than just the one at your own firm (that job agreement is probably unenforceable anyway).

[luckenmeister]

Long time lurker, first time poster. Was wondering people’s thoughts/ideas on my situation. Sorry if this sounds like an LSAT essay prompt.

BACKGROUND: older law school applicant. Have been a paralegal at a couple law firms (V-50 in NYC, V-10 in LA, currently at boutique firm in NYC). I pretty much have three options:

1- go to school part time in NYC and stay at my current firm. This firm offered to pay TUITION ONLY at a lower ranked local school (i.e. NYLS) provided that (i) I stay employed with them throughout my law school career, and (ii) I work for them for four years after I graduate (I could get out early if I repaid them my tuition). I would continue to draw a salary throughout school, receive many perks (i.e. promotion to law clerk once school begins, guaranteed 1L and 2L job, guaranteed associate job, but at roughly 80% of biglaw pay). The only problem is that the bulk of the people I in my group are complete assholes and throw temper tantrums left and right. I am currently shielded from these people whenever “my partner” is busy (which is 8-10 months of the year), but I would probably need to work with them after graduation.

2 - go to school part time in NYC and move to a different firm (somewhere in the V-15). I know people in this firm, and pretty have been offered a position by the head of my practice group (if I apply). The deal offered to me is strict 9-5 schedule, guaranteed 1L job (nothing guaranteed beyond), but the department head alluded to more if I proved myself while in school. This would definitely be a better name to have on my resume, but I already have big names on my resume with stability, good recommendations, etc.

3 – relocate. Have half-tuition scholarship to part-time program in SoCal (“good standing” stipulation). I would need to move, find job, etc. If I pursue this option, my current job would guarantee me 1L job and 2L job, and “serious consideration” for a full-time position because they don’t normally consider people from California schools [would only take them up on this if I couldn't find something on my own]. They would, however, provide me assistance finding further work in SoCal or wherever I land.

CONSIDERATIONS: (A) family is on the east coast. If I stayed in NY I could find a way to live for next to nothing. (B) no attachments (my fiancée just came out as gay - no hard feelings though). Because of this, I am considering the long-distance move a little more seriously. (C) SoCal has been a dream of mine for a while, but I would be starting over/fresh. (D) I don’t like NYC very much (If I stayed in NYC for school, the end game would be to move to DC as soon as possible).

GOALS: probably to work in a firm/company on transactional matters. I think in my current field, I am limited to larger banking centers in the USA (NY, Chicago, SF, LA) and probably DC. Prefer to be in NYC for as short a time as possible.

PS - required forum information from sticky:
- Total Cost of Attendance: option 1 - lets say $100k; option 2 - lets say $100k; option 3 - lets say $125k
- How you will be financing your COA: option 1 - firm "scholarship" (see above). Tap savings for anything else; option 2 - $50k from savings, $50k debt; option 3 - $50k savings, $75k debt.
-Where you are from [NJ] and where you want to work [DC, LA, SD], and other places where you have significant ties [NY, Charlotte]
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers [LSAT 168; GPA 2.9 <-- long story. Enjoyed undergraduate too much.]

PPS - If you have any questions, please PM. I have given as much info as I feel comfortable giving in public.

PPPS – my apologies if the above comes off as humble-bragging or as anything but a sincere request for advice. I have busted my ass working as a paralegal. I enjoy my field and many/most of the people I have come into contact with in this field, and could see myself being happy as an attorney in this field. I have a decent number of contacts who are encouraging me to finally pursue my degree and who have cobbled together offers to help me. I just don’t feel like I should be discussing competing offers with them.

This is amazing! To those focusing on the schools, who cares? OP has 2 jobs in hand. I personally would take the 1st offer, as you're set with a job during and after LS. Especially if your firm will pay for a place like Fordham. But that also depends on the biggest question, do you like the firm and would you be happy there for the next 8+ years. If you really don't, or really don't want to be in NY, then this changes things.

The V-15 firm you reference also sounds like a great option, but with them do you have to go to a part time school in NY? Where are they located? If you don't have to go part time, I'd sit out this cycle and try to get into a better school next year. Or, If you're sure about part time, try to get a scholarship to Georgetown PT. I'm sure the V-15 firm will offer you a full time job with a degree from Gtwn. If not for some reason, you do have a T-14 degree and ample experience to fall back on. Plus it sounds like that NYC firm will definitely hire you back.

I'd avoid the last option just because you're left empty handed if you somehow don't get the job. Half tuition is nice, but CA is expensive. It also seems like your connections and the better PT schools are on the east coast. In all, I don't see how it can get better than a free degree and an assured job in NY.

[cheesy143]

I would try for gulc part time. You would have to find a job again which sucks but it sounds like you have a good resume and good references so it shouldn't be too hard. You'll be living in DC through law school making connections so if you don't want to live in NYC why stay there and NYLS isn't going to give you prestigious DC connections at all. The first option is the safe option but it doesn't sound like it'll make you very happy.

[trebekismyhero]

Long time lurker, first time poster. Was wondering people’s thoughts/ideas on my situation. Sorry if this sounds like an LSAT essay prompt.

BACKGROUND: older law school applicant. Have been a paralegal at a couple law firms (V-50 in NYC, V-10 in LA, currently at boutique firm in NYC). I pretty much have three options:

1- go to school part time in NYC and stay at my current firm. This firm offered to pay TUITION ONLY at a lower ranked local school (i.e. NYLS) provided that (i) I stay employed with them throughout my law school career, and (ii) I work for them for four years after I graduate (I could get out early if I repaid them my tuition). I would continue to draw a salary throughout school, receive many perks (i.e. promotion to law clerk once school begins, guaranteed 1L and 2L job, guaranteed associate job, but at roughly 80% of biglaw pay). The only problem is that the bulk of the people I in my group are complete assholes and throw temper tantrums left and right. I am currently shielded from these people whenever “my partner” is busy (which is 8-10 months of the year), but I would probably need to work with them after graduation.

2 - go to school part time in NYC and move to a different firm (somewhere in the V-15). I know people in this firm, and pretty have been offered a position by the head of my practice group (if I apply). The deal offered to me is strict 9-5 schedule, guaranteed 1L job (nothing guaranteed beyond), but the department head alluded to more if I proved myself while in school. This would definitely be a better name to have on my resume, but I already have big names on my resume with stability, good recommendations, etc.

3 – relocate. Have half-tuition scholarship to part-time program in SoCal (“good standing” stipulation). I would need to move, find job, etc. If I pursue this option, my current job would guarantee me 1L job and 2L job, and “serious consideration” for a full-time position because they don’t normally consider people from California schools [would only take them up on this if I couldn't find something on my own]. They would, however, provide me assistance finding further work in SoCal or wherever I land.

CONSIDERATIONS: (A) family is on the east coast. If I stayed in NY I could find a way to live for next to nothing. (B) no attachments (my fiancée just came out as gay - no hard feelings though). Because of this, I am considering the long-distance move a little more seriously. (C) SoCal has been a dream of mine for a while, but I would be starting over/fresh. (D) I don’t like NYC very much (If I stayed in NYC for school, the end game would be to move to DC as soon as possible).

GOALS: probably to work in a firm/company on transactional matters. I think in my current field, I am limited to larger banking centers in the USA (NY, Chicago, SF, LA) and probably DC. Prefer to be in NYC for as short a time as possible.

PS - required forum information from sticky:
- Total Cost of Attendance: option 1 - lets say $100k; option 2 - lets say $100k; option 3 - lets say $125k
- How you will be financing your COA: option 1 - firm "scholarship" (see above). Tap savings for anything else; option 2 - $50k from savings, $50k debt; option 3 - $50k savings, $75k debt.
-Where you are from [NJ] and where you want to work [DC, LA, SD], and other places where you have significant ties [NY, Charlotte]
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers [LSAT 168; GPA 2.9 <-- long story. Enjoyed undergraduate too much.]

PPS - If you have any questions, please PM. I have given as much info as I feel comfortable giving in public.

PPPS – my apologies if the above comes off as humble-bragging or as anything but a sincere request for advice. I have busted my ass working as a paralegal. I enjoy my field and many/most of the people I have come into contact with in this field, and could see myself being happy as an attorney in this field. I have a decent number of contacts who are encouraging me to finally pursue my degree and who have cobbled together offers to help me. I just don’t feel like I should be discussing competing offers with them.

This is amazing! To those focusing on the schools, who cares? OP has 2 jobs in hand. I personally would take the 1st offer, as you're set with a job during and after LS. Especially if your firm will pay for a place like Fordham. But that also depends on the biggest question, do you like the firm and would you be happy there for the next 8+ years. If you really don't, or really don't want to be in NY, then this changes things.

The V-15 firm you reference also sounds like a great option, but with them do you have to go to a part time school in NY? Where are they located? If you don't have to go part time, I'd sit out this cycle and try to get into a better school next year. Or, If you're sure about part time, try to get a scholarship to Georgetown PT. I'm sure the V-15 firm will offer you a full time job with a degree from Gtwn. If not for some reason, you do have a T-14 degree and ample experience to fall back on. Plus it sounds like that NYC firm will definitely hire you back.

I'd avoid the last option just because you're left empty handed if you somehow don't get the job. Half tuition is nice, but CA is expensive. It also seems like your connections and the better PT schools are on the east coast. In all, I don't see how it can get better than a free degree and an assured job in NY.

Agree with this. I understand people are worried about the shit school, but OP would get it paid for and a job afterwards.

OP, to ensure that you have the job, I would get the deal in writing. If you don't have the tuition and job lined up, then options 1 and 2 are not attractive.

[cron1834]

Shit in one hand and "job guarantee" in the other, and see which fills up first.

Look, OP may very well have two jobs ... but if it doesn't work out (which is more than a long shot), and he/she goes to NYLS, game over. I'd rather have COL debt from a T14 than no debt and a NYLS degree. Going the "job guarantee/shit school" route preserves one option, but at the expense of all others.

Are you really gonna let 7-figures (potentially) of career earnings swing on whether or not a biglaw partner has a bad billing year before your 2L summer? Going to a T14 diversifies your options.

[luckenmeister]

Shit in one hand and "job guarantee" in the other, and see which fills up first.

Look, OP may very well have two jobs ... but if it doesn't work out (which is more than a long shot), and he/she goes to NYLS, game over. I'd rather have COL debt from a T14 than no debt and a NYLS degree. Going the "job guarantee/shit school" route preserves one option, but at the expense of all others.

Are you really gonna let 7-figures (potentially) of career earnings swing on whether or not a biglaw partner has a bad billing year before your 2L summer? Going to a T14 diversifies your options.

Why is this a long shot? OP's worked at the firm for quite a while, and probably has an idea of weather or not they'd be happy there long term. If OP does, they'd get a FREE degree and a GUARANTEED job at what sounds like a good firm (if they can afford paying tuitions, not bad). Also, it's pure speculation for OP to have only COL debt at a T-14, so I don't understand how this is a factor at all. That's possible only if OP retakes the LSAT and kills it. Even then, there's no guarantee they'd only have COL debt (Do PT programs even have full tuition scholarships?). I think if OP has any doubts about the firm, they should go for the V15 firm they have a connect with after aiming for a T-14 school (if V15 is in NYC, Fordham should get them there).

The responses on these forums are constantly, go to T-14 , go to T-14. If everyone could do that, there wouldn't be a T-14. But what's dumber is that it's not at all necessary for some people's goals or situations (like when you have someone paying for you to get their job!).

[cron1834]

Shit in one hand and "job guarantee" in the other, and see which fills up first.

Look, OP may very well have two jobs ... but if it doesn't work out (which is more than a long shot), and he/she goes to NYLS, game over. I'd rather have COL debt from a T14 than no debt and a NYLS degree. Going the "job guarantee/shit school" route preserves one option, but at the expense of all others.

Are you really gonna let 7-figures (potentially) of career earnings swing on whether or not a biglaw partner has a bad billing year before your 2L summer? Going to a T14 diversifies your options.

Why is this a long shot? OP's worked at the firm for quite a while, and probably has an idea of weather or not they'd be happy there long term. If OP does, they'd get a FREE degree and a GUARANTEED job at what sounds like a good firm (if they can afford paying tuitions, not bad). Also, it's pure speculation for OP to have only COL debt at a T-14, so I don't understand how this is a factor at all. That's possible only if OP retakes the LSAT and kills it. Even then, there's no guarantee they'd only have COL debt (Do PT programs even have full tuition scholarships?). I think if OP has any doubts about the firm, they should go for the V15 firm they have a connect with after aiming for a T-14 school (if V15 is in NYC, Fordham should get them there).

The responses on these forums are constantly, go to T-14 , go to T-14. If everyone could do that, there wouldn't be a T-14. But what's dumber is that it's not at all necessary for some people's goals or situations (like when you have someone paying for you to get their job!).

You should read more carefully. I said the prospect of the job guarantee falling through is more than just a longshot, not the job itself. The job may be more likely than not, but there's a non-negligible chance it falls through. That happens every day. Also, OP said the group is filled with assholes and screamers, so this isn't exactly a prize. Also Part II, the job only pays 80% of market and probably doesn't have market bonuses or lockstep. In the country's most expensive city, this is just not that great of a proposition. Requiring NYLS attendance for a non-certain, meh job is just not a good deal, imho.

And, fair enough - I may be presumptuous about OP's ability to do well on the LSAT. But you don't need that great of a score to get good money from Cornell. And Cornell gives you like an 80% chance of an actual market-paying job.