GW sticker vs. T2 for cheap Forum

[trulytorn]

Don't quote please, but I'm looking for some guidance. Goals are Big Law, don't particularly care where. GPA is below a 3.0, LSAT is a 166. Other options besides GW are Tennessee and Case Western, both of which would be very cheap. My family will be paying for my tuition so no loans and debt.

[BrazilBandit]

Where do you want to practice? get rid of Case Western...

[trulytorn]

Where do you want to practice? get rid of Case Western...

No strong preference for any geographic region. I could see myself being happy in any mid-to-large-sized city.

[fliptrip]

Not a single one of those schools is going to give you even a coin flip's chance at Big Law. GW is around 30% and Case/UT are around 10% each. I encourage you to read up a lot more on how legal employment works. But as a quick summary, unless you (1)go to Harvard, Yale, or Stanford or (2) want to work in New York City, you're not going to be able to get a job in a market unless you go to a school that feeds that market or go to a T14ish school and have some kind of ties to that market.

If you want big law, you are going to have to retake the LSAT and get something above 172 I'd say and then throw some apps to known splitter (low GPA/high LSAT) friendly schools. Thankfully, you're having this paid for, so you can just go to the best school that admits you after you get that LSAT up.

[trulytorn]

Not a single one of those schools is going to give you even a coin flip's chance at Big Law. GW is around 30% and Case/UT are around 10% each. I encourage you to read up a lot more on how legal employment works. But as a quick summary, unless you (1)go to Harvard, Yale, or Stanford or (2) want to work in New York City, you're not going to be able to get a job in a market unless you go to a school that feeds that market or go to a T14ish school and have some kind of ties to that market.

If you want big law, you are going to have to retake the LSAT and get something above 172 I'd say and then throw some apps to known splitter (low GPA/high LSAT) friendly schools. Thankfully, you're having this paid for, so you can just go to the best school that admits you after you get that LSAT up.

I've researched and am well aware that the odds aren't good from any of these schools. Also, thanks for quoting when I began my post asking not to be quoted.

[foregetaboutdre]

Where are you from originally? Ties are a big deal when you get out of the T14s. For instance, I'd be apprehensive of going to Tennessee if I was from CA or something.

Did you ever think about applying to Vandy if you're from Tennessee? I'd nix Case and apply to Ohio State if I was from Ohio. Go where you want to practice and where you can manage debt. Also "biglaw" in some of those states is more like "midlaw" just so you know.

[fliptrip]

Fixed that quoting, sorry.

If you already know you have a poor chance of reaching your goal at the three schools you've mentioned, then it's pretty simple. Go to the campus where you'd be happiest. But, if Big Law is really your goal, why wouldn't you want to do everything you can to maximize your chances of achieving it?

[FutureSuperLawyer]

If you want big law, its a huge advantage to go to the best law school in a big city. The one school that meets that criteria is Case. Its the best law school in Cleveland and Cleveland is home of one of Jones Day, one of the biggest of the big law firms. Go to case, intern at Jones Day and if you hustle and network you'll impress the people there an be in biglaw. GW is much worse. Its not the best law school in DC and the DC market is insanely competitive anyway.

[BigZuck]

If you want big law, its a huge advantage to go to the best law school in a big city. The one school that meets that criteria is Case. Its the best law school in Cleveland and Cleveland is home of one of Jones Day, one of the biggest of the big law firms. Go to case, intern at Jones Day and if you hustle and network you'll impress the people there an be in biglaw. GW is much worse. Its not the best law school in DC and the DC market is insanely competitive anyway.

This is really bad advice

"Just do work at Jones Day bro" is not something that the vast, vast majority of Case students can do. Also, even if that was possible and the OP "won" in that regard, one day they would wake up and realize that they work at Jones Day. Even if the OP wins, he loses.

OP- the answer is "none of the above" if you want big law. It's that simple.

[trulytorn]

If you want big law, its a huge advantage to go to the best law school in a big city. The one school that meets that criteria is Case. Its the best law school in Cleveland and Cleveland is home of one of Jones Day, one of the biggest of the big law firms. Go to case, intern at Jones Day and if you hustle and network you'll impress the people there an be in biglaw. GW is much worse. Its not the best law school in DC and the DC market is insanely competitive anyway.

This is really bad advice

"Just do work at Jones Day bro" is not something that the vast, vast majority of Case students can do. Also, even if that was possible and the OP "won" in that regard, one day they would wake up and realize that they work at Jones Day. Even if the OP wins, he loses.

OP- the answer is "none of the above" if you want big law. It's that simple.

But GW seems to be one of the best outside of the T14 for Big Law.

[philippian413]

This is not the best advise but you could go to GW and have to kill 1L year and transfer to NYU,Duke, and worst case Georgetown would take you.

[TheRealSantaClaus]

.

[trulytorn]

You got no scholarship money at all from GW with a 166? Did you try and negotiate?

Not yet. Will try in a couple weeks.

[BigZuck]

If you want big law, its a huge advantage to go to the best law school in a big city. The one school that meets that criteria is Case. Its the best law school in Cleveland and Cleveland is home of one of Jones Day, one of the biggest of the big law firms. Go to case, intern at Jones Day and if you hustle and network you'll impress the people there an be in biglaw. GW is much worse. Its not the best law school in DC and the DC market is insanely competitive anyway.

This is really bad advice

"Just do work at Jones Day bro" is not something that the vast, vast majority of Case students can do. Also, even if that was possible and the OP "won" in that regard, one day they would wake up and realize that they work at Jones Day. Even if the OP wins, he loses.

OP- the answer is "none of the above" if you want big law. It's that simple.

But GW seems to be one of the best outside of the T14 for Big Law.

I 100% agree. It's still a non starter though.

If you want big law, you got to a T14. That's what the T14 is there for. Schools outside the T14 don't reliably place into big law with enough probability to make attending them a good option. (I'd soften that a bit for schools like UCLA/UT/Vandy but not a school like GW, especially with all the placement into IP and not "normal" big law)

[trulytorn]

If you want big law, its a huge advantage to go to the best law school in a big city. The one school that meets that criteria is Case. Its the best law school in Cleveland and Cleveland is home of one of Jones Day, one of the biggest of the big law firms. Go to case, intern at Jones Day and if you hustle and network you'll impress the people there an be in biglaw. GW is much worse. Its not the best law school in DC and the DC market is insanely competitive anyway.

This is really bad advice

"Just do work at Jones Day bro" is not something that the vast, vast majority of Case students can do. Also, even if that was possible and the OP "won" in that regard, one day they would wake up and realize that they work at Jones Day. Even if the OP wins, he loses.

OP- the answer is "none of the above" if you want big law. It's that simple.

But GW seems to be one of the best outside of the T14 for Big Law.

I 100% agree. It's still a non starter though.

If you want big law, you got to a T14. That's what the T14 is there for. Schools outside the T14 don't reliably place into big law with enough probability to make attending them a good option. (I'd soften that a bit for schools like UCLA/UT/Vandy but not a school like GW, especially with all the placement into IP and not "normal" big law)

Is there a way I can find out how much GW's big law stats are inflated by IP?

[BigZuck]

If you want big law, its a huge advantage to go to the best law school in a big city. The one school that meets that criteria is Case. Its the best law school in Cleveland and Cleveland is home of one of Jones Day, one of the biggest of the big law firms. Go to case, intern at Jones Day and if you hustle and network you'll impress the people there an be in biglaw. GW is much worse. Its not the best law school in DC and the DC market is insanely competitive anyway.

This is really bad advice

"Just do work at Jones Day bro" is not something that the vast, vast majority of Case students can do. Also, even if that was possible and the OP "won" in that regard, one day they would wake up and realize that they work at Jones Day. Even if the OP wins, he loses.

OP- the answer is "none of the above" if you want big law. It's that simple.

But GW seems to be one of the best outside of the T14 for Big Law.

I 100% agree. It's still a non starter though.

If you want big law, you got to a T14. That's what the T14 is there for. Schools outside the T14 don't reliably place into big law with enough probability to make attending them a good option. (I'd soften that a bit for schools like UCLA/UT/Vandy but not a school like GW, especially with all the placement into IP and not "normal" big law)

Is there a way I can find out how much GW's big law stats are inflated by IP?

Doubt it

But even if it wasn't inflated by IP bros it still wouldn't be worth it if your goal is big law. You're trying to stuff a square peg into a round hole. You need to get a rounder peg or find a squarer hole.

[trebekismyhero]

Yeah, if you want big law, you're going to have to retake the LSAT and get in the 170s. If you were ok with getting any law job then the recommendation would be different. But you seem to be a total big law gunner and going to GW means that there is at least a 75% chance that you end up disappointed and even higher at the other schools.

I had a similar decision to make a few years ago with similar stats. But I wasn't gunning for big law at the time.

[FSK]

Retake.

[FSK]

Goals are Big Law, don't particularly care where. .

Don't go to GW, and certainly don't go to a T2. Do a single search into this question (which gets asked ad nauseum on these fora).

[trulytorn]

Yeah, if you want big law, you're going to have to retake the LSAT and get in the 170s. If you were ok with getting any law job then the recommendation would be different. But you seem to be a total big law gunner and going to GW means that there is at least a 75% chance that you end up disappointed and even higher at the other schools.

I had a similar decision to make a few years ago with similar stats. But I wasn't gunning for big law at the time.

What choice did you make and how did it work out for you?

[trebekismyhero]

Yeah, if you want big law, you're going to have to retake the LSAT and get in the 170s. If you were ok with getting any law job then the recommendation would be different. But you seem to be a total big law gunner and going to GW means that there is at least a 75% chance that you end up disappointed and even higher at the other schools.

I had a similar decision to make a few years ago with similar stats. But I wasn't gunning for big law at the time.

What choice did you make and how did it work out for you?

Went to a T1 in the market I wanted to work in on a big scholarship, GW at sticker was way too much and not worth it for me. It worked out very well for me, but like I said, I wasn't gunning for big law when I began. I would have been happy being an ADA or something like that.

[CTT]

If you're going to go to one of these schools without a strong background in finance, technology, the military, or something else that's unusual and relevant to law, you need to be perfectly happy working at a small law firm for mid five-figures. Would you be unhappy doing something like residential real estate, personal bankruptcies, slip and fall cases, or employment discrimination suits?

GW gives you the best shot at big law. Even though it's the most competitive market in the country for T14 students, there are like 20 firms in DC that have legit summer classes. In Cleveland, there's one. In Tennessee, there are none. But the ROI you're looking at isn't pretty.

[03152016]

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[trulytorn]

if you want biglaw, why would you consider a school where 7 in 10 don't get it?

Because it's the best odds of any school I've been admitted to. Any more brainbusters?

[03152016]

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