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cheaptilts · Post by **cheaptilts** » Sat Dec 12, 2015 6:03 pm

You're unlikely to accomplish both 1 and 2 via going to Oxbridge, so you might as well sit for the LSAT

Your OP is weird

BigZuck · Post by **BigZuck** » Sat Dec 12, 2015 6:08 pm

The Oxbridge plan sounds like a bad one given your goals. Although, if you're the type of person who uses phrases like "Oxbridge" you should probably take that opportunity.

Also this is all moot when you bink, like, a 164.

I dunno, this is a tough one.

Maybe just focus on the LSAT for now.

Lecafeconleche · Post by **Lecafeconleche** » Sat Dec 12, 2015 6:30 pm

Thank you both!
It's a hypothetical situation for now but I am trying to evaluate things. And it's not helping that the family is driving me crazy to just chill until October and not even bother with the lsat.
Sorry about the 'Oxbridge' annoyance, just trying to anonymize as much as possible.

stig2014 · Post by **stig2014** » Sat Dec 12, 2015 6:32 pm

It seems that, given your goals, a US JD would be a better fit, but that the "Oxbridge" prestige has you wanting to pursue that option. Can't say I blame you TBH.

Just focus on the LSAT for now and then reevaluate once you have an actual score.

fredfred · Post by **fredfred** » Sat Dec 12, 2015 6:37 pm

Oxbridge then try law school. It is what I did and I enjoyed Oxbridge so much more than law school and it really was beneficial. Worst case you realize you really want law, finish after 2 years at Oxbridge and try law school. Best case you realize how much you don't need law school anyway. PM me if you want more specifics.

Edit:

Plus it is much easier to go oxbridge---->law school than law school ---->phd. Might as well start at Oxbridge.

scone · Post by **scone** » Sat Dec 12, 2015 6:46 pm

So a second BA at Oxbridge takes two years, not three (as you're senior status). Add that to an LLM, and you're qualified to practice in NY in 3 years - the same length of time as a JD. To get into academia you essentially need a doctorate anyway, on top of a JD, so going the JD route won't be any faster.

How have you already got a place at Oxbridge? They haven't released decisions yet. Have you deferred for a year?

[ETA: while you've been very good at using the term 'Oxbridge' rather than 'Oxford' or 'Cambridge', you did let your guard down at one point - you may wish to edit that...]

[Another ETA: don't underestimate the value of the tutorial system in allowing you to build close relationships with tutors]

jbagelboy · Post by **jbagelboy** » Sat Dec 12, 2015 7:01 pm

scone wrote:So a second BA at Oxbridge takes two years, not three (as you're senior status). Add that to an LLM, and you're qualified to practice in NY in 3 years - the same length of time as a JD. To get into academia you essentially need a doctorate anyway, on top of a JD, so going the JD route won't be any faster.

How have you already got a place at Oxbridge? They haven't released decisions yet. Have you deferred for a year?

[ETA: while you've been very good at using the term 'Oxbridge' rather than 'Oxford' or 'Cambridge', you did let your guard down at one point - you may wish to edit that...]

[Another ETA: don't underestimate the value of the tutorial system in allowing you to build close relationships with tutors]

^agree with this. You can also pursue a JSD in the states, which is a specifically academic degree where you can write a dissertation, after your european LLB. I think for non-US citizens who don't have US bachelors** degrees, entering academia from a JD program without a PhD is extraordinarily difficult. Most foreign professors I know have LLMs and another foreign masters, US jsd, or other credential.

**I make this caveat because of course foreigners come to the US as children or in college and then become naturalized, which allows them to take advantage of the opportunities that most frequently lead to legal academia, i.e., federal clerkships and government positions.

Lecafeconleche · Post by **Lecafeconleche** » Sat Dec 12, 2015 7:50 pm

scone wrote: How have you already got a place at Oxbridge? They haven't released decisions yet. Have you deferred for a year?

Yes, deferred because I am doing an M.Phil now. And they offered me a place for the regular course, not SS.

I guess what truly bothers me about 'Oxbridge' is that I have to study with 17-18 yos and I don't think I will be very interested in socializing with them or hearing what they have to say at lectures/tutorials.

Thank you all for your thoughts!

fredfred · Post by **fredfred** » Sat Dec 12, 2015 7:54 pm

Lecafeconleche wrote:
scone wrote: How have you already got a place at Oxbridge? They haven't released decisions yet. Have you deferred for a year?

Yes, deferred because I am doing an M.Phil now. And they offered me a place for the regular course, not SS.

I guess what truly bothers me about 'Oxbridge' is that I have to study with 17-18 yos and I don't think I will be very interested in socializing with them or hearing what they have to say at lectures/tutorials.

Thank you all for your thoughts!

Wait what? You are doing an M.Phil and then you are going back to do a second ba? That doesn't make a ton of sense. Where are you doing your M.Phil now? Unless Oxbridge doesn't believe in the strength of your M.Phil and its the only thing they offered you. But regardless, sure there will be 18 year olds but go hang with the middle common room or something.

Lecafeconleche · Post by **Lecafeconleche** » Sat Dec 12, 2015 7:58 pm

fredfred wrote:
Lecafeconleche wrote:
scone wrote: How have you already got a place at Oxbridge? They haven't released decisions yet. Have you deferred for a year?

Yes, deferred because I am doing an M.Phil now. And they offered me a place for the regular course, not SS.

I guess what truly bothers me about 'Oxbridge' is that I have to study with 17-18 yos and I don't think I will be very interested in socializing with them or hearing what they have to say at lectures/tutorials.

Thank you all for your thoughts!
Wait what? You are doing an M.Phil and then you are going back to do a second ba? That doesn't make a ton of sense. Where are you doing your M.Phil now? Unless Oxbridge doesn't believe in the strength of your M.Phil and its the only thing they offered you. But regardless, sure there will be 18 year olds but go hang with the middle common room or something.

Mphil is at Oxbridge. They offered me the regular course because the only person who works in the field in which I am interested is a fellow at a college that doesn't offer SS. I applied to another college for SS and they pooled my app to the other college.

scone · Post by **scone** » Sat Dec 12, 2015 8:01 pm

Lecafeconleche wrote:
scone wrote: How have you already got a place at Oxbridge? They haven't released decisions yet. Have you deferred for a year?

Yes, deferred because I am doing an M.Phil now. And they offered me a place for the regular course, not SS.

I guess what truly bothers me about 'Oxbridge' is that I have to study with 17-18 yos and I don't think I will be very interested in socializing with them or hearing what they have to say at lectures/tutorials.

Thank you all for your thoughts!

Couple of thoughts about the age thing - firstly, there's not really much student participation (if at all) during lectures - the lecturer simply talks for an hour. Many tutorials are one-on-one anyway, but even in those with other students, the direction is very much steered by the tutor - I've never, ever encountered anyone not challenged in a tutorial.

Secondly, you could exclusively socialise with your college's MCR rather than JCR, so you barely need to come into contact with the undergraduate body. But many students (particularly in law) are mature students anyway.

Have you tried going along to any lectures in law, if you're there at the moment? They are open to all, of course.

Finally - you say you want to go into academia. Are you sure you want to go into legal academia? You've never studied law... But you will soon have an MPhil, & thus a DPhil's only another 2-3 years on top of that - so a career in academia in whatever you're currently studying would be a lot easier and quicker to get on to (& considering that only the top 15% or so of yale law graduates ever make it into academia, getting an HYS JD is no guarantee).

Lecafeconleche wrote: Mphil is at Oxbridge. They offered me the regular course because the only person who works in the field in which I am interested is a fellow at a college that doesn't offer SS. I applied to another college for SS and they pooled my app to the other college.

Um, the college they offer you has zilch to do with the specialities of the fellows there though? - teaching is central anyway.

fredfred · Post by **fredfred** » Sat Dec 12, 2015 8:02 pm

Lecafeconleche wrote:
fredfred wrote:
Lecafeconleche wrote:
scone wrote: How have you already got a place at Oxbridge? They haven't released decisions yet. Have you deferred for a year?

Yes, deferred because I am doing an M.Phil now. And they offered me a place for the regular course, not SS.

I guess what truly bothers me about 'Oxbridge' is that I have to study with 17-18 yos and I don't think I will be very interested in socializing with them or hearing what they have to say at lectures/tutorials.

Thank you all for your thoughts!
Wait what? You are doing an M.Phil and then you are going back to do a second ba? That doesn't make a ton of sense. Where are you doing your M.Phil now? Unless Oxbridge doesn't believe in the strength of your M.Phil and its the only thing they offered you. But regardless, sure there will be 18 year olds but go hang with the middle common room or something.
Mphil is at Oxbridge. They offered me the regular course because the only person who works in the field in which I am interested is a fellow at a college that doesn't offer SS. I applied to another college for SS and they pooled my app to the other college.

So finish your Mphil and apply for a Dphil. Don't go backwards. It doesn't make a lot of sense. Unless your Mphil is not in a related field, in which then you would have to go to a second ba. If that is what is happening, then do that. If you are staying in the same field, don't go backwards. Go somewhere for the Dphil after you finish your Mphil.

scone · Post by **scone** » Sat Dec 12, 2015 8:09 pm

fredfred wrote: So finish your Mphil and apply for a Dphil. Don't go backwards. It doesn't make a lot of sense. Unless your Mphil is not in a related field, in which then you would have to go to a second ba. If that is what is happening, then do that. If you are staying in the same field, don't go backwards. Go somewhere for the Dphil after you finish your Mphil.

Kinda obvious that OP's MPhil is not in Law.

Lecafeconleche · Post by **Lecafeconleche** » Sat Dec 12, 2015 8:13 pm

tutorials are almost exclusively lead by college fellows and a few 'shared' ones. Lectures are central. At least they said this is why they are offering me the regular course, maybe my app was just very weak.

employment in the field of my M.Phil is practically non-existent. Legal academia is a piece of cake compared to it. People are finishing D.Phils here and going to teach at boarding schools.

fredfred · Post by **fredfred** » Sat Dec 12, 2015 8:13 pm

scone wrote:
fredfred wrote: So finish your Mphil and apply for a Dphil. Don't go backwards. It doesn't make a lot of sense. Unless your Mphil is not in a related field, in which then you would have to go to a second ba. If that is what is happening, then do that. If you are staying in the same field, don't go backwards. Go somewhere for the Dphil after you finish your Mphil.
Kinda obvious that OP's MPhil is not in Law.

Yeah but he doesn't need to go back to do law with a second BA. If his Mphil is in basically anything kinda relevant then he can go into legal academia. The majority of legal academics who had phd/dphils are not in something law related. Some philosophy, some history, a ton in economics, then a bunch in various sciences. So I don't understand if the ultimate goal is legal academia why he would go back and do a second BA in law. Just go finish the Dphil/phd in whatever field as long as it isn't something like meteorology or whale science or whatever.

OP: go finish your phd/dphil. Then go back to law. Don't go backwards and don't jump to law school before you get a phd. It is basically a requirement with legal academic hiring (especially strong are social science phds- econ, political science, etc as long as you do quantitative stuff).

A. Nony Mouse · Post by **A. Nony Mouse** » Sat Dec 12, 2015 8:17 pm

fredfred wrote:
scone wrote:
fredfred wrote: So finish your Mphil and apply for a Dphil. Don't go backwards. It doesn't make a lot of sense. Unless your Mphil is not in a related field, in which then you would have to go to a second ba. If that is what is happening, then do that. If you are staying in the same field, don't go backwards. Go somewhere for the Dphil after you finish your Mphil.
Kinda obvious that OP's MPhil is not in Law.
Yeah but he doesn't need to go back to do law with a second BA. If his Mphil is in basically anything kinda relevant then he can go into legal academia. The majority of legal academics who had phd/dphils are not in something law related. Some philosophy, some history, a ton in economics, then a bunch in various sciences. So I don't understand if the ultimate goal is legal academia why he would go back and do a second BA in law. Just go finish the Dphil/phd in whatever field as long as it isn't something like meteorology or whale science or whatever.

Exactly what I was going to say. You can study law in a ton of disciplines, and there's an argument (mostly made by the Leiters of the world, but still) that law is an amorphous enough field without much of its own methodology that an advanced degree in law (like JSD/PhD in law) isn't a good as a PhD in a related field.

Also echoing the "are you sure you want to go into legal academia?"

Lecafeconleche · Post by **Lecafeconleche** » Sat Dec 12, 2015 8:39 pm

Thanks for all your thoughtful advice!

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