Why going to Stetson was one of the greatest decisions I made in my life. Forum

[wolfintally]

I was a consistent follower of this forum 4 years ago. I was applying to law schools and I only wanted to go to the top 14. In the end I am glad I did not. I knew of Stetson and knew I loved the area it was located. I also knew it had a pretty good alumni network so I applied to the school as a safety. Stetson was the first school I got accepted into. I also got into the other well known private law school down south. I think I got into 10 or so schools nationwide. For me it came down to Stetson or Miami. I chose Stetson and I am so glad I did.

There are some things you should know about Stetson before you apply. Stetson is not for big law or bust people. Can you get big law out of Stetson? Yes, but you likely will not unless you at in the top %10 and you’re on law review. ( I use the term big law to also include Florida based national firms that pay 90k to over 100k.). Can you become an attorney out of Stetson or even better a true litigator? Yes 100% of the bar members of the class can. Will you have a job prior to passing the bar? 70-80% will not.

What makes Stetson different than similarly situated schools? Stetson’s Alumni network. Hands down Stetson has the best alumni network in the State of Florida. Alumni in law firms, agencies, state attorney and PD offices will go out of their way to ensure you as a member of the Florida Bar and Stetson grad will get an interview. Stetson looks out for their own. I can truly say I am glad I did not go to Miami, FSU or UF for that reason. Do not go to the other Florida law schools otherwise you will forever be marked.

Why do Stetson’s employment stats look so dismal? Because, most of Stetson Grads will not get a job until after bar admission and most of Stetson grads will work in Midlaw, Small Law, SAO, PD, State Agencies, Fed/State Clerks etc..

Why am I so sure of myself? Well I have a job better situated than most people on this forum and most in this state. I also finished dead middle of my class. Is it in big law? No. I feel sorry for my fellow alums who got big law. They may never truly litigate. They may never truly be attorneys. (I am not as ASA or APD) How did I get this job? I networked my ass off to our alumni situated in positions of power.

After bar results came out what surprised me the most? The amount of my classmates taking jobs in Mid Law, as Fed clerks, as ASAs, as APDs, in agencies etc. If I had gone off my knowledge from this site they all should have been unemployed.

Mock me. Discredit me. Do what you will to this post. I just thought someone should shed light on this often overlooked institution.

[Winter is Coming]

Stetson to 190k confirmed!!!

[acr]

I was a consistent follower of this forum 4 years ago. I was applying to law schools and I only wanted to go to the top 14. In the end I am glad I did not. I knew of Stetson and knew I loved the area it was located. I also knew it had a pretty good alumni network so I applied to the school as a safety. Stetson was the first school I got accepted into. I also got into the other well known private law school down south. I think I got into 10 or so schools nationwide. For me it came down to Stetson or Miami. I chose Stetson and I am so glad I did.

There are some things you should know about Stetson before you apply. Stetson is not for big law or bust people. Can you get big law out of Stetson? Yes, but you likely will not unless you at in the top %10 and you’re on law review. ( I use the term big law to also include Florida based national firms that pay 90k to over 100k.). Can you become an attorney out of Stetson or even better a true litigator? Yes 100% of the bar members of the class can. Will you have a job prior to passing the bar? 70-80% will not.

What makes Stetson different than similarly situated schools? Stetson’s Alumni network. Hands down Stetson has the best alumni network in the State of Florida. Alumni in law firms, agencies, state attorney and PD offices will go out of their way to ensure you as a member of the Florida Bar and Stetson grad will get an interview. Stetson looks out for their own. I can truly say I am glad I did not go to Miami, FSU or UF for that reason. Do not go to the other Florida law schools otherwise you will forever be marked.

Why do Stetson’s employment stats look so dismal? Because, most of Stetson Grads will not get a job until after bar admission and most of Stetson grads will work in Midlaw, Small Law, SAO, PD, State Agencies, Fed/State Clerks etc..

Why am I so sure of myself? Well I have a job better situated than most people on this forum and most in this state. I also finished dead middle of my class. Is it in big law? No. I feel sorry for my fellow alums who got big law. They may never truly litigate. They may never truly be attorneys. (I am not as ASA or APD) How did I get this job? I networked my ass off to our alumni situated in positions of power.

After bar results came out what surprised me the most? The amount of my classmates taking jobs in Mid Law, as Fed clerks, as ASAs, as APDs, in agencies etc. If I had gone off my knowledge from this site they all should have been unemployed.

Mock me. Discredit me. Do what you will to this post. I just thought someone should shed light on this often overlooked institution.

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say. Congratulations on the positive outcome.

But just because you won the lottery doesn't mean it's statistically smart for others to play the lottery by attending a TTT or attending a mediocre school at sticker.

Employment prospects and soul-crushing debt are well understood and you're clearly an anecdotal exception here, not the rule. No one's denying that it's impossible to land a job from a TTT or even land a good job, only that it's incredibly difficult and there's really no reason to ever put yourself in such a position when you can improve your outcome by retaking the LSAT

[girlrunning]

I am glad you did well. I know people who went to Stetson and did/do incredible well for themselves. It's not really a surprise that people at a regional school + networking = possibility of a job. The problem is when posts like these encourage 0Ls to not retake the LSAT/not take time off to reapply and count on getting a job because they will "hustle." That is not the case at most schools.

While Stetson may have a "great" alumni network, if someone is trying to stay in Florida and that meets their goals and they don't incur debt, in most cases it's better to go to one of the public universities--this post does a disservice to 0Ls who think going to a school based on a alumni support is more important than not borrowing a house to pay for law school. There's no such thing as being marked by UF/FSU, other than if your boss is some crazy FSU/UF die-hard fan.

There are plenty of people who hustle and never get a job good enough to service their debts (most kids are borrowing money at private regional schools). I have friends at my hometown regional, who have done well in school and "hustled" and are still unemployed a year after graduation, or working for free in hopes of getting in somewhere.

I am glad Stetson helped you meet your goals, but don't make it sound as if this is the case for everyone and anyone.

[lymenheimer]

175/307 grads in FT/LT Bar passage required jobs. You missed the point if you think people shit on law schools because they're not T14 or whatever. It's because you can't assume, going in, that you will be one of those individuals who gets a (decent) legal job. It's easy to say after the fact, "I have a great job and went to x school." It's (nearly) impossible to say beforehand "I will go to x school and end up with a great job." Especially when the reported numbers are more bleak than those at other, objectively better schools. It's not about the school having no way to feed into a decent job, it's about the likelihood of future law grads being that student (those students) who get the decent jobs. But your anecdote will be useful to some individuals applying to Stetson this year, I'm sure.

[cheaptilts]

I currently have 3 (not 1, not 2, but 3) very close friends who attend/ed Stetson and 2 out of 3 would completely disagree with this.

1 transferred to UF/FSU last year

1 is a 3L who doesn't have a job, but he/she is also in love with Stetson and holds a belief similar to yours

and 1 is a median 2L is completely regrets ignoring my retake advice

-

YMMV.

[Clemenceau]

Why do Stetson’s employment stats look so dismal? Because, most of Stetson Grads will not get a job until after bar admission and most of Stetson grads will work in Midlaw, Small Law, SAO, PD, State Agencies, Fed/State Clerks etc.

After bar results came out what surprised me the most? The amount of my classmates taking jobs in Mid Law, as Fed clerks

Currently looking at the aba summary for class of 2014 and seeing 3 fed clerks, 2 state clerks and 24 midlaw/biglaw combined. Out of 307 grads.

[wolfintally]

I guess I should clarify. I am not promoting going to Stetson over going to T14... Nor am I saying go there if you want to practice anywhere outside of Florida. I am just saying this site makes it seem like you will end up a Starbucks barista if you go to Stetson. That is a very very unlikely outcome.... I don't know about other schools ranked similarly but out of Stetson there is a very high probability you will work as an attorney.... very likely an attorney in a law firm with about 5-20 other attorneys practicing family law, bankruptcy, PI, Insurance defense, Workers Comp, etc.

[lymenheimer]

I guess I should clarify. I am not promoting going to Stetson over going to T14... Nor am I saying go there if you want to practice anywhere outside of Florida. I am just saying this site makes it seem like you will end up a Starbucks barista if you go to Stetson. That is a very very unlikely outcome.... I don't know about other schools ranked similarly but out off Stetson there is a very high probability you will work as an attorney.... very likely an attorney in a law firm with about 5-20 other attorneys practicing family law, bankruptcy, PI, Insurance defense, Workers Comp, etc.

175/307 grads in FT/LT Bar passage required jobs.

Quoting myself to add this:
2-25 attorneys: 88/307 grads in 2014. (71 in 2-10 range. 17 in 11-25 range)
57% chance at becoming a FT practicing attorney.
28% chance of playing out your "very likely" scenario.
ability to guarantee these outcomes when you are making a decision on where to attend: 0%

[wolfintally]

175/307 grads in FT/LT Bar passage required jobs. You missed the point if you think people shit on law schools because they're not T14 or whatever. It's because you can't assume, going in, that you will be one of those individuals who gets a (decent) legal job. It's easy to say after the fact, "I have a great job and went to x school." It's (nearly) impossible to say beforehand "I will go to x school and end up with a great job." Especially when the reported numbers are more bleak than those at other, objectively better schools. It's not about the school having no way to feed into a decent job, it's about the likelihood of future law grads being that student (those students) who get the decent jobs. But your anecdote will be useful to some individuals applying to Stetson this year, I'm sure.

You realize these are projected statistics off the people who respond to surveys... I have been asking around and no one has received a survey since the one we received right after graduation.... The majority of of our grads don't get jobs offers until after bar passage? How is that a good measure of graduates?

[lymenheimer]

You realize these are projected statistics off the people who respond to surveys... I have been asking around and no one has received a survey since the one we received right after graduation.... The majority of of our grads don't get jobs offers until after bar passage? How is that a good measure of graduates?

You graduated in 2014?

[wolfintally]

You realize these are projected statistics off the people who respond to surveys... I have been asking around and no one has received a survey since the one we received right after graduation.... The majority of of our grads don't get jobs offers until after bar passage? How is that a good measure of graduates?

You graduated in 2014?

No I just graduated May 2015

Back to work...

[lymenheimer]

You realize these are projected statistics off the people who respond to surveys... I have been asking around and no one has received a survey since the one we received right after graduation.... The majority of of our grads don't get jobs offers until after bar passage? How is that a good measure of graduates?

You graduated in 2014?

No I just graduated

These are 2014 graduate numbers...http://www.stetson.edu/law/career/media ... report.pdf
edit: don't know what other measures to use. Perhaps anecdotes should be relied upon moreso than the official ABA report which could be inflated if nothing else. I don't know why a school would artificially deflate their success in the job market.

Anyways, my point wasn't to argue. I genuinely think your experience is valuable to those who may be considering applying to Stetson. But don't make it seem like TLS is a bully because of the reasons I already outlined. You ended up with a great outcome and that is fantastic, but you couldn't know that going in. I just think you misinterpret the advice given on here, especially now that you are job secure. If you had failed at the job search, you'd be thanking TLS and wishing you would have listened, like some other individuals who attend local TT(TT)s and report back.

[pancakes3]

OP, bro... you don't sound very smart.

[lymenheimer]

Genuinely curious about "the other well known private law school down south" as well. So if you could return and at least name that school. I'm assuming you mean Duke, but I'm thinking that my assumption is wrong.

[TheOnePercent]

Why going to Cooley was the greatest decisions [sic] I made in my life.

/corrected

[barkschool]

Survivors bias is biased

[wolfintally]

OP, bro... you don't sound very smart.

Yeah never said I was!! Trust me to make it you really don't have to be smart (I'm a testament to that) it really takes something else and you won't really know if you have it until you try...

[A. Nony Mouse]

To be fair, I do think that at many regional schools, it is quite common for it to take longer to get a job, and so the 9-months-post-grad stat does somewhat understate a school's ultimate total employment per class. But I don't know that you really want to bank on that when choosing schools. And as always, the issue is a mismatch between expectations and reality. If you aren't going to go into debt and want to work in insurance defense/workers' comp/local government or the like, a regional
school where you want to work is fine. The problem is that many people 1) think that school will give access to ALL legal jobs and/or 2) take out a lot of debt. A lot of debt to work at a 10-25 workers' comp firm probably isn't a great investment.

[barkschool]

To be fair, I do think that at many regional schools, it is quite common for it to take longer to get a job, and so the 9-months-post-grad stat does somewhat understate a school's ultimate total employment per class. But I don't know that you really want to bank on that when choosing schools. And as always, the issue is a mismatch between expectations and reality. If you aren't going to go into debt and want to work in insurance defense/workers' comp/local government or the like, a regional
school where you want to work is fine. The problem is that many people 1) think that school will give access to ALL legal jobs and/or 2) take out a lot of debt. A lot of debt to work at a 10-25 workers' comp firm probably isn't a great investment.

Where does the myth come from that you can do anything on a legal degree? Is this something that 80's & 90's lawyers were able to do?

[ymmv]

To be fair, I do think that at many regional schools, it is quite common for it to take longer to get a job, and so the 9-months-post-grad stat does somewhat understate a school's ultimate total employment per class. But I don't know that you really want to bank on that when choosing schools. And as always, the issue is a mismatch between expectations and reality. If you aren't going to go into debt and want to work in insurance defense/workers' comp/local government or the like, a regional
school where you want to work is fine. The problem is that many people 1) think that school will give access to ALL legal jobs and/or 2) take out a lot of debt. A lot of debt to work at a 10-25 workers' comp firm probably isn't a great investment.

Where does the myth come from that you can do anything on a legal degree? Is this something that 80's & 90's lawyers were able to do?

It comes from lots of lawyers hating law and seeking work outside the field.

[Hikikomorist]

.

[kingpin101]

OP, I truly truly hope you understand that your post is very similar to a Mega Millions winner saying that buying 1000 tickets was the best decision in his life.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

OP you will get your 9 month (actually it's 10 month now) employment survey in the future, ya know, around 10 months after you graduate.

What I always want to know is, in the category of people who pass the bar, what is the percentage of people getting legal jobs out of these schools? If 40% of your buddies fail the bar, the 50% ft/lt looks pretty damned good.

[052220152]

Telling people to go to your shit hole school because of "network" is terrible advice.

No seriously guys, don't pay attention to the massive amounts of data telling you that Stetson is a festering shithole and objectively terrible decision. Network means that none of that other shit matters.