Penn State Law Forum

[ddoomm]

Hi Folks!

Last week I visited Penn State Law University Park at State College. Coming from a high school class of 75 and being a senior at a college with a class of around 600, that was quite the eye-opener! My question is this: I have applied to, be accepted to with full tuition scholarship, and visited both Penn State law schools, Dickinson and University Park (used to be one law school, two locations, now two independent law schools both under Penn State. http://pennstatelaw.psu.edu/penn-state-law/our-history). Has anyone else applied to either school, is willing to share any experiences, or preference/advantages of one school over the other? Thank you, and have a Happy Thanksgiving!

[kellyfrost]

When you say "been accepted to with full tuition" do you mean a full ride scholarship or that you will be paying full tuition?

[ddoomm]

When you say "been accepted to with full tuition" do you mean a full ride scholarship or that you will be paying full tuition?

Thanks for pointing that out, I'll edit it. I mean full ride scholarship.

[vitaquonex]

I applied to Dickinson. Did you get the ED situation sorted out?

[ddoomm]

I applied to Dickinson. Did you get the ED situation sorted out?

Yes! My application for University Park was moved to Regular Decision with the scholarship standing. What do you think of Dickinson?

[vitaquonex]

I applied to Dickinson. Did you get the ED situation sorted out?

Yes! My application for University Park was moved to Regular Decision with the scholarship standing. What do you think of Dickinson?

That's good. The new facilities are pretty nice, but the employment numbers make it a difficult choice even with full tuition.

[personofinterest]

What are your stats (LSAT and GPA)?

Penn State's employment stats aren't great:
http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... yers/2014/

You should consider applying to schools that will lead to better outcomes. Then again, if you are dead set on being a lawyer and realize you won't make much money with a degree from PSU, then by all means take the full ride.

[ddoomm]

Thank you for the link! I still have to hear back from a bunch (15, I think) of schools. I appreciate the feedback.

[Clemenceau]

Where do you want to practice? If the answer isn't Harrisburg or similar small town in rural PA, then I'd try to find a better option

[corporatesellouttt]

im a student at the dickinson campus. you can post any questions you have and ill answer. or you can pm me.

[psu2016]

Also a student at Carlisle. Don't do UP. It's literally in the middle of nowhere and there are no opportunities unless you want to drive 2 hours to Harrisburg...

[vitaquonex]

Those of you that are students at Dickinson, any word on how the class of 2015 fared with employment? It was an extremely small class right? The unpredictable future of the school due to the separation has me a little worried.

[psu2016]

The class of 2015 at Dickinson was around 65 and I know a bunch of people who have jobs and a bunch who don't. I'm in the class of 2016 (3L) and I have a biglaw gig lined up. (Free tuition with insanely low cost of living works out to a really sweet deal if you can swing it, but that's not typical). I know of about 4 people (out of 30) who are employed, and the good news is that everybody who has a job at this moment is going to be making mid six figures. The bad news is that everyone who is not going to be making six figures is still looking for a job.

[vitaquonex]

Is there any reason to suspect Dickinson grads outperformed the employment stats for the combined schools?

[psu2016]

Do I have a concrete reason to believe so? No. Do I have anecdotal evidence to support my hypothesis that Carlisle outperforms? Absolutely.

For one thing, Carlisle is "intentionally small." The maximum class size is 75, but the 2015 incoming class was only 64, and my (unified) class here is only 30. This means that fewer jobs are needed to employ Carlisle students (counterpoint: it also means that one or two un- or under-employed students will skew our statistics disproportionately). I've been in classes with Carlisle and UP Students and my experience has been that Carlisle students are far more employable. As a general rule, students who choose Carlisle are a little older, more mature, and more focused on their school work. Many of us have prior professional or military work experience. Carlisle is also about half an hour from Harrisburg (compare with 2 hours from UP), so we get more placements in Hbg. The "old school" alumni all graduated from the Carlisle campus since UP wasn't even built when they were in school, so, again, the theory is that such alumni favor Carlisle students. Finally, I've had experience with professors at both campuses, and it has been my experience that the Carlisle professors are MUCH better. Because we are such a small campus, they get to know you both professionally and personally (the torts professor has "small group" lunches with all the 1Ls at least once during the semester), so you get much better recommendations and job recommendations.

As between the two campuses, Carlisle is the absolute slam-dunk winner.

[corporatesellouttt]

plus it seems like the UP campus is full of weirds. Maybe thats just all law student though.

[psu2016]

plus it seems like the UP campus is full of weirds. Maybe thats just all law student though.

I mean there are weirds here, too, but we are a different type of weird.

[ddoomm]

plus it seems like the UP campus is full of weirds. Maybe thats just all law student though.

I mean there are weirds here, too, but we are a different type of weird.

Very true, nobody is 'normal' and that is just fine! Thank you for the discussion. I am leaning toward Dickinson over State College. I definitely prefer the smaller, quieter setting and there does seem to be a slight edge in terms of academics and opportunities.

[psu2016]

plus it seems like the UP campus is full of weirds. Maybe thats just all law student though.

I mean there are weirds here, too, but we are a different type of weird.

Very true, nobody is 'normal' and that is just fine! Thank you for the discussion. I am leaning toward Dickinson over State College. I definitely prefer the smaller, quieter setting and there does seem to be a slight edge in terms of academics and opportunities.

No problem, let me know if you have any other questions.

[A@M_or_bust]

plus it seems like the UP campus is full of weirds. Maybe thats just all law student though.

I mean there are weirds here, too, but we are a different type of weird.

Very true, nobody is 'normal' and that is just fine! Thank you for the discussion. I am leaning toward Dickinson over State College. I definitely prefer the smaller, quieter setting and there does seem to be a slight edge in terms of academics and opportunities.

Can you expand on what you mean by "academics and opportunities" and this seemingly slight edge for Dickinson?

[ddoomm]

I was talking about the location mostly. Being so close to Harrisburg as well as Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, and DC it is better placed. Plus, while I have heard that the numbers are similar at State College for its first year, I wish I could look into the future and see how the LSAT and GPA numbers change.

[A@M_or_bust]

I was talking about the location mostly. Being so close to Harrisburg as well as Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, and DC it is better placed. Plus, while I have heard that the numbers are similar at State College for its first year, I wish I could look into the future and see how the LSAT and GPA numbers change.

In theory, the geography of the school would help. But that remains to be seen. As of now, Penn State's employment numbers are not good. If you are fine with being closed off from big law opportunities, then by all means a full ride from this school is okay, I guess. Also, I am confused about your curiosity of the school's future LSAT and GPA numbers. Can you explain why this is relevant?

[BigZuck]

Being closer to DC makes absolutely no difference, you aren't getting a job in DC either way

The grim reality is that both schools are probably a lot closer to being shut down-worthy than attending-worthy (at the very least, whichever of the two is the worst shouldn't exist)

Don't go to either without a burning desire and reason to be in Pennsylvania (and only Pennsylvania) long term.

[psu2016]

Don't go to either without a burning desire and reason to be in Pennsylvania (and only Pennsylvania) long term.

TCR, but with one (fairly large) exception. I'd say most of the people who hit the jackpot end up at the Big 4 DE firms, with a couple of others at the Pitt regional offices (Jones Day/KL Gates, Reed Smith, etc.) Fewer still hit Philly biglaw.

The advantage to being closer to DC is that you can live down there and commute. At least two people are doing that. It's like 2:10, so if you do T/R classes it's manageable.

[FamilyLawEsq]

Being closer to DC makes absolutely no difference, you aren't getting a job in DC either way

The grim reality is that both schools are probably a lot closer to being shut down-worthy than attending-worthy (at the very least, whichever of the two is the worst shouldn't exist)

Don't go to either without a burning desire and reason to be in Pennsylvania (and only Pennsylvania) long term.

Dickinson Law has been around since 1834, I don't think it will be shut down anytime soon. Dickinson graduates, a ton of whom are practicing in the Susquehanna Valley, are unhappy with the affiliation with Penn State. Their perception is that Dickinson is better, period, whether there is data to support it or not.