Georgetown vs Michigan?

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Whippin_work

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Georgetown vs Michigan?

Post by Whippin_work » Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:28 pm

Go

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TLSModBot

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Re: Georgetown vs Michigan?

Post by TLSModBot » Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:53 pm

Neither, if you have a better option?

Otherwise: Michigan because job outcomes yo.

/thread

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Mack.Hambleton

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Re: Georgetown vs Michigan?

Post by Mack.Hambleton » Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:55 pm

Michigan is better

But if you got into Michigan you probably have better options, like Cornell

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Clemenceau

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Re: Georgetown vs Michigan?

Post by Clemenceau » Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:52 pm

^agree. Cornell is tcr

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jbagelboy

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Re: Georgetown vs Michigan?

Post by jbagelboy » Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:09 am

Cornell is not *always* better than Michigan. Depends on target market and price.

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acr

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Re: Georgetown vs Michigan?

Post by acr » Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:16 am

Would much rather spend 3 years in Ann Arbor than

Ithaca (yawn)

or

DC (expensive sauna)

But GTTTown or Cornell for east coast
Last edited by acr on Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

mvp99

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Re: Georgetown vs Michigan?

Post by mvp99 » Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:38 am

jbagelboy wrote:Cornell is not *always* better than Michigan. Depends on target market and price.
i.e. Cornell places a substantial number of students in NYC while Michigan only around 20% NYC and the rest in CA, Chicago, Michigan

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Re: Georgetown vs Michigan?

Post by TLSModBot » Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:31 am

Q: GULC or Michigan?
A: Maybe Cornell.

Only TLS.

barkschool

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Re: Georgetown vs Michigan

Post by barkschool » Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:25 am

Make the choice dependent on what type of jacket you would like to wear in November

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BigZuck

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Re: Georgetown vs Michigan?

Post by BigZuck » Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:29 am

Capitol_Idea wrote:Q: GULC or Michigan?
A: Maybe Cornell.

Only TLS.
Just cuz OPs' love false dichotomies doesn't mean we have to let them win bro

Eta: it's not like this is an actual choice faced by the OP either. No way he deserves to win this one.

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Mack.Hambleton

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Re: Georgetown vs Michigan?

Post by Mack.Hambleton » Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:54 pm

Capitol_Idea wrote:Q: GULC or Michigan?
A: Maybe Cornell.

Only TLS.
ur right lets stick to USNWR

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Re: Georgetown vs Michigan?

Post by Fiddlesticks » Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:14 pm

Rumor has it that Michigan Career Services claimed that >60% of 2L's who took part in OCI got biglaw this past year, then that + clerkships. Would be interesting to know what % of the class took part in OCI.

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Re: Georgetown vs Michigan?

Post by BigZuck » Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:30 pm

Fiddlesticks wrote:Rumor has it that Michigan Career Services claimed that >60% of 2L's who took part in OCI got biglaw this past year, then that + clerkships. Would be interesting to know what % of the class took part in OCI.
Every year this will be the year that Michigan turns it around, every year it's the same old Michigan.

Lol Dean Z. Just lol.

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mvp99

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Re: Georgetown vs Michigan?

Post by mvp99 » Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:35 pm

BigZuck wrote:
Fiddlesticks wrote:Rumor has it that Michigan Career Services claimed that >60% of 2L's who took part in OCI got biglaw this past year, then that + clerkships. Would be interesting to know what % of the class took part in OCI.
Every year this will be the year that Michigan turns it around, every year it's the same old Michigan.

Lol Dean Z. Just lol.
I think this is actually likely and doesn't necessarily mean M improved its numbers. CS claimed that 60% of 2ls who took part in OCI so a subgroup of the class.. don't know how many do not participate though

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RamTitan

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Re: Georgetown vs Michigan?

Post by RamTitan » Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:00 pm

Capitol_Idea wrote:Q: GULC or Michigan?
A: Maybe Cornell.

Only TLS.
I spit my water out; congrats



With that said, why is Cornell a better option than Michigan? Just because of its NYC placement?

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jbagelboy

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Re: Georgetown vs Michigan?

Post by jbagelboy » Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:06 pm

mvp99 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
Fiddlesticks wrote:Rumor has it that Michigan Career Services claimed that >60% of 2L's who took part in OCI got biglaw this past year, then that + clerkships. Would be interesting to know what % of the class took part in OCI.
Every year this will be the year that Michigan turns it around, every year it's the same old Michigan.

Lol Dean Z. Just lol.
I think this is actually likely and doesn't necessarily mean M improved its numbers. CS claimed that 60% of 2ls who took part in OCI so a subgroup of the class.. don't know how many do not participate though
60% success rate is weak for a T14

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Glasseyes

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Re: Georgetown vs Michigan?

Post by Glasseyes » Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:39 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
mvp99 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
Fiddlesticks wrote:Rumor has it that Michigan Career Services claimed that >60% of 2L's who took part in OCI got biglaw this past year, then that + clerkships. Would be interesting to know what % of the class took part in OCI.
Every year this will be the year that Michigan turns it around, every year it's the same old Michigan.

Lol Dean Z. Just lol.
I think this is actually likely and doesn't necessarily mean M improved its numbers. CS claimed that 60% of 2ls who took part in OCI so a subgroup of the class.. don't know how many do not participate though
60% success rate is weak for a T14
Yeah, that sounds pretty bad. I'm no mathlete, but that sounds worse than GULC when you factor in the third of our class that doesn't do OCI.

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jbagelboy

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Re: Georgetown vs Michigan?

Post by jbagelboy » Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:56 pm

Glasseyes wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
mvp99 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
Fiddlesticks wrote:Rumor has it that Michigan Career Services claimed that >60% of 2L's who took part in OCI got biglaw this past year, then that + clerkships. Would be interesting to know what % of the class took part in OCI.
Every year this will be the year that Michigan turns it around, every year it's the same old Michigan.

Lol Dean Z. Just lol.
I think this is actually likely and doesn't necessarily mean M improved its numbers. CS claimed that 60% of 2ls who took part in OCI so a subgroup of the class.. don't know how many do not participate though
60% success rate is weak for a T14
Yeah, that sounds pretty bad. I'm no mathlete, but that sounds worse than GULC when you factor in the third of our class that doesn't do OCI.
Well, people that don't participate in OCI at all are not counted in the denominator of the success rate.

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Glasseyes

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Re: Georgetown vs Michigan?

Post by Glasseyes » Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:08 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
Glasseyes wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
mvp99 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
Fiddlesticks wrote:Rumor has it that Michigan Career Services claimed that >60% of 2L's who took part in OCI got biglaw this past year, then that + clerkships. Would be interesting to know what % of the class took part in OCI.
Every year this will be the year that Michigan turns it around, every year it's the same old Michigan.

Lol Dean Z. Just lol.
I think this is actually likely and doesn't necessarily mean M improved its numbers. CS claimed that 60% of 2ls who took part in OCI so a subgroup of the class.. don't know how many do not participate though
60% success rate is weak for a T14
Yeah, that sounds pretty bad. I'm no mathlete, but that sounds worse than GULC when you factor in the third of our class that doesn't do OCI.
Well, people that don't participate in OCI at all are not counted in the denominator of the success rate.
Right, right. Rough math: GULC places half-ish the class (just under) in biglaw, but the PI focused kids and a lot of below median folks don't bother with OCI. Forget where I heard 2/3 of the class does OCI, but I heard it somewhere. If that number is true, and half of the total CLASS gets biglaw, that's like ~75% success rate at OCI?

I suppose the half-ish biglaw numbers will also include 3L OCI and mass mailing, so my underlying assumptions probably don't add up. Still, 60% at Michigan sounds bad.

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Re: Georgetown vs Michigan?

Post by CTT » Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:49 pm

Just to clear up a few Michigan things: 2016 employment data is going to be an improvement over past years, and we've been saying this on here for two years now, about that class in particular. It's better than Georgetown as things stand now.

Also, the 20 percent go to New York bit is a garbage argument. Practically everyone on TLS makes the same b.s. Cornell arguments. But they ignore the fact that Cornell appears to feed into mediocre New York big law simply because everyone at Cornell is ok with New York big law. It's the easiest market in the country; everyone who goes to a T14 law school and has done OCI knows that. It you go to Cornell, you're saying you're ok with living in New York, whereas those students who go to the Michigan, Northwestern, Georgetown, or Berkley are making a different choice despite the ability to go to Cornell and end up working at some bottom rung 160 shop in New York for less. You're more likely to make 160 and work at a 500+ person firm if you're looking at New York than ANYWHERE else (regardless of what school you went to). It's not that Cornell students do better interviewing with those firms; it's that everyone does well interviewing in New York and Cornell students are highly predisposed to be willing to work in New York. I like going to a place where lots of people have different ambitions. Why do you think that, despite being offered by a New York based firm, Cornell is horrible at landing its grads with prestigious non-big law jobs? See http://abovethelaw.com/2015/12/congratu ... fellows/2/.

Georgetown is a fine school. I could have gone there for less than I paid to attend Michigan and I thought about it, but I'm happy I chose Michigan. The living is easier/cheaper and the law school community is tighter. Plus, the sports and great; the job outcomes are better; the campus is more attractive; and I am willing to bet that I have a vastly better relationship with my professors than I would have had at georgetown.

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Re: Georgetown vs Michigan?

Post by BigZuck » Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:40 pm

CTT wrote:Just to clear up a few Michigan things: 2016 employment data is going to be an improvement over past years, and we've been saying this on here for two years now, about that class in particular. It's better than Georgetown as things stand now.

Also, the 20 percent go to New York bit is a garbage argument. Practically everyone on TLS makes the same b.s. Cornell arguments. But they ignore the fact that Cornell appears to feed into mediocre New York big law simply because everyone at Cornell is ok with New York big law. It's the easiest market in the country; everyone who goes to a T14 law school and has done OCI knows that. It you go to Cornell, you're saying you're ok with living in New York, whereas those students who go to the Michigan, Northwestern, Georgetown, or Berkley are making a different choice despite the ability to go to Cornell and end up working at some bottom rung 160 shop in New York for less. You're more likely to make 160 and work at a 500+ person firm if you're looking at New York than ANYWHERE else (regardless of what school you went to). It's not that Cornell students do better interviewing with those firms; it's that everyone does well interviewing in New York and Cornell students are highly predisposed to be willing to work in New York. I like going to a place where lots of people have different ambitions. Why do you think that, despite being offered by a New York based firm, Cornell is horrible at landing its grads with prestigious non-big law jobs? See http://abovethelaw.com/2015/12/congratu ... fellows/2/.

Georgetown is a fine school. I could have gone there for less than I paid to attend Michigan and I thought about it, but I'm happy I chose Michigan. The living is easier/cheaper and the law school community is tighter. Plus, the sports and great; the job outcomes are better; the campus is more attractive; and I am willing to bet that I have a vastly better relationship with my professors than I would have had at georgetown.
We'll go ahead and mark you down as a Michigan Man then

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Re: Georgetown vs Michigan?

Post by kingpin101 » Thu Jan 07, 2016 1:02 pm

CTT wrote:Just to clear up a few Michigan things: 2016 employment data is going to be an improvement over past years, and we've been saying this on here for two years now, about that class in particular. It's better than Georgetown as things stand now.

Also, the 20 percent go to New York bit is a garbage argument. Practically everyone on TLS makes the same b.s. Cornell arguments. But they ignore the fact that Cornell appears to feed into mediocre New York big law simply because everyone at Cornell is ok with New York big law. It's the easiest market in the country; everyone who goes to a T14 law school and has done OCI knows that. It you go to Cornell, you're saying you're ok with living in New York, whereas those students who go to the Michigan, Northwestern, Georgetown, or Berkley are making a different choice despite the ability to go to Cornell and end up working at some bottom rung 160 shop in New York for less. You're more likely to make 160 and work at a 500+ person firm if you're looking at New York than ANYWHERE else (regardless of what school you went to). It's not that Cornell students do better interviewing with those firms; it's that everyone does well interviewing in New York and Cornell students are highly predisposed to be willing to work in New York. I like going to a place where lots of people have different ambitions. Why do you think that, despite being offered by a New York based firm, Cornell is horrible at landing its grads with prestigious non-big law jobs? See http://abovethelaw.com/2015/12/congratu ... fellows/2/.

Georgetown is a fine school. I could have gone there for less than I paid to attend Michigan and I thought about it, but I'm happy I chose Michigan. The living is easier/cheaper and the law school community is tighter. Plus, the sports and great; the job outcomes are better; the campus is more attractive; and I am willing to bet that I have a vastly better relationship with my professors than I would have had at georgetown.
Guess why? Because they look at USNews and see other schools ranked higher than Cornell. Also, they write off Ithaca without even visiting.

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Re: Georgetown vs Michigan?

Post by CTT » Thu Jan 07, 2016 5:50 pm

For what it's worth, I wrote off Ithaca after getting into and visiting Cornell. Ann Arbor clearly had more going on, was closer to a major airport, and had more students who cared about things other than New York big law--and I say that having happily considered and declined offers from three V5 NYC shops.

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Re: Georgetown vs Michigan?

Post by pancakes3 » Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:09 pm

Well then, color me convinced.

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Re: Georgetown vs Michigan?

Post by Glasseyes » Sat Jan 09, 2016 6:05 pm

CTT wrote:Just to clear up a few Michigan things: 2016 employment data is going to be an improvement over past years, and we've been saying this on here for two years now, about that class in particular. It's better than Georgetown as things stand now.

Also, the 20 percent go to New York bit is a garbage argument. Practically everyone on TLS makes the same b.s. Cornell arguments. But they ignore the fact that Cornell appears to feed into mediocre New York big law simply because everyone at Cornell is ok with New York big law. It's the easiest market in the country; everyone who goes to a T14 law school and has done OCI knows that. It you go to Cornell, you're saying you're ok with living in New York, whereas those students who go to the Michigan, Northwestern, Georgetown, or Berkley are making a different choice despite the ability to go to Cornell and end up working at some bottom rung 160 shop in New York for less. You're more likely to make 160 and work at a 500+ person firm if you're looking at New York than ANYWHERE else (regardless of what school you went to). It's not that Cornell students do better interviewing with those firms; it's that everyone does well interviewing in New York and Cornell students are highly predisposed to be willing to work in New York. I like going to a place where lots of people have different ambitions. Why do you think that, despite being offered by a New York based firm, Cornell is horrible at landing its grads with prestigious non-big law jobs? See http://abovethelaw.com/2015/12/congratu ... fellows/2/.

Georgetown is a fine school. I could have gone there for less than I paid to attend Michigan and I thought about it, but I'm happy I chose Michigan. The living is easier/cheaper and the law school community is tighter. Plus, the sports and great; the job outcomes are better; the campus is more attractive; and I am willing to bet that I have a vastly better relationship with my professors than I would have had at georgetown.
I think this board is collectively risk-averse (not a bad thing, but it is limiting), which is why Cornell gets such glowing praise from people on here who probably didn't actually go there. Your reasoning re: Cornell and the NY market is almost certainly accurate, and I doubt Cornell has much reach into other markets besides for the top of the class, same as any other school in that range. Depending on goals, Cornell COULD make sense over Michigan even at similar costs, but I don't think it's as clear a decision as some on this site would suggest.

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