Parents Would Rather Me Go to a Low-Ranking School Forum

RamTitan · Post by **RamTitan** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:54 pm

Hey everyone, I've been debating with my parents about the importance of going to a t-14 school. I've been studying for the Feb. 2016 LSAT since May, and am now at a 170. I hope to get a perfect score, and would love to go to a top 3 school, but any elite school would make me happy. However, my parents don't share this sentiment. They don't understand why I've been studying so much, and think I should just go ahead and take it and go to a school like SIUC or SLU (I live in Saint Louis). I'd ignore them, but they are the ones who will be paying for my education, so I'm trying to get them to understand the importance of this test and for going to go a high-ranking school. This process of making them understand is extremely difficult though, as they refuse to read any articles I send to them.

Can I get any help on this situation?

ManoftheHour · Post by **ManoftheHour** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:04 pm

Get a full ride somewhere better, and yolo. You're a grown ass man/woman. You do what you need to do. With a 170+, you'll have options.

pittsburghpirates · Post by **pittsburghpirates** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:18 pm

Post removed.

BigZuck · Post by **BigZuck** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:29 pm

Just tell them (in a nice way) that you can't possibly make major life decisions based on the whims of people who won't even read a damn article and who base their thoughts and perceptions on stuff they pull out of their collective butt.

They are your parents, I get that, but you've got to yank the chain a bit here and not let them drag you down with them.

totesTheGoat · Post by **totesTheGoat** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:30 pm

RamTitan wrote:Hey everyone, I've been debating with my parents about the importance of going to a t-14 school. I've been studying for the Feb. 2016 LSAT since May, and am now at a 170. I hope to get a perfect score, and would love to go to a top 3 school, but any elite school would make me happy. However, my parents don't share this sentiment. They don't understand why I've been studying so much, and think I should just go ahead and take it and go to a school like SIUC or SLU (I live in Saint Louis). I'd ignore them, but they are the ones who will be paying for my education, so I'm trying to get them to understand the importance of this test and for going to go a high-ranking school. This process of making them understand is extremely difficult though, as they refuse to read any articles I send to them.

Can I get any help on this situation?

1) SLU has a 40% chance of you not having a bar required job after graduating.
2) SLU has a 16.1% chance of you being underemployed*
3) SIUC has a 40% chance of you not having a bar required job after graduating.
4) SIUC has a 25% chance of you being underemployed

SIUC salaries: 75th percentile: $60k, 50th percentile: $50k, 25th percentile: $41k
SLU doesn't publish their salaries, but given the distribution of biglaw to small law, it's probably only slightly better than SIUC

Check out this link for where I got most of the info:

http://www.lstscorereports.com/compare/ ... ern/washu/

Both SLU and SIUC are completely not worth attending. Even if you were a top 25% student (not guaranteed), you're gonna be in for an uphill battle to find a decent job.

I punched in a 174 and 3.65 GPA into myLSN.info. You're looking at potentially 6 figures in scholarship at NW and WUSTL. http://mylsn.info/qp4b8f/

Go play around with mylsn.info and put in your actual numbers. You don't necessarily need your parents' money, and you can definitely tell them "thanks for offering to help with law school, but I really think I will have better opportunities at ______ instead."

baal hadad · Post by **baal hadad** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:53 pm

Due to the job statistics already referenced, I wouldn't go to either of the schools even if all the tuition were free. I.e., even if the school were free, I would not take out even loans just for cost-of-living

emkay625 · Post by **emkay625** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:55 pm

What's your GPA? If it's good, and even if you just hit a 170, you'll be looking at serious $ from the lower T14. Take a full ride there and tell your parents no thank you.

mornincounselor · Post by **mornincounselor** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 5:14 am

Post removed.

CanadianWolf · Post by **CanadianWolf** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:46 am

For some context, read the first TLS post by OP.

totesTheGoat · Post by **totesTheGoat** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:20 pm

Wow, I just about nailed the GPA.

OP, your sole focus should be getting your LSAT sky high, because each point increases the chances of $$$$ at T1 schools. As I posted earlier, you have the potential for 6-figures at WUSTL or NW if you want to stay close to home.

BigZuck · Post by **BigZuck** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:44 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:For some context, read the first TLS post by OP.

Yikes

Ok, yeah OP, don't go to law school unless you want to become a lawyer and the school in question is appropriate for your career and geographic goals.

abl · Post by **abl** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:47 pm

I don't know why you'd go to SLU or SIUC with those numbers instead of, at the very least, Wash-U with a big scholarship. You seem to want to leave town (or at least are fine with it), though, so I'd recommend just trying to kill the LSAT and then blanket the T14 (and maybe some other schools, depending on what you actually get on the LSAT), with applications. If you score >170, you're likely to end up with a pretty good set of choices that will almost certainly include a big scholarship at Wash-U--which, although it may not be the best option you'll have, will be a more-than-acceptable choice for someone who wants to stick around St. Louis.

seashell.economy · Post by **seashell.economy** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:48 pm

I struggle with these same issues. My parents (who are immigrants) don't even want me to go to law school, especially due to gender issues as I am a woman. They think I should be satisfied with what they had: low-paying and monotonous lifelong jobs. If I attended Harvard on a full scholarship they wouldn't be impressed. I tried showing them articles on the importance of LSAT scores and job statistics of T14s, but that only slightly toned down their criticism. In the end, you just have to decide to follow your dreams, or the dreams (commands?) of your parents.

gamerish · Post by **gamerish** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:56 pm

Post removed...

Big Red · Post by **Big Red** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:06 pm

RamTitan wrote: I hope to get a perfect score, and would love to go to a top 3 school, but any elite school would make me happy.

RamTitan wrote:I'll try to keep this as general as possible, so that way it will be useful for other people in the same situation.

I am a recent college graduate (English Writing major, 3.67 GPA, selective (but not prestigious) liberal arts college in the Midwest), and am trying to decide whether or not going to law school is the right option for me.

My reasons for wanting to go to law school are that I want to be a talent agent or an entertainment lawyer; I am passionate about the entertainment industry, and really want to find a way to start a career in that field any way possible. However, I am a naturally creative person; I used to want to be a filmmaker, used to be involved in theater as an actor, and still want to be a creative writer/screenwriter. So in short, I don't want to go to law school to become an attorney necessarily, which is apparently considered to be a huge red flag. I want to be a talent agent so I can ensure that the artists I know have the careers they deserve, but I still have artistic ambitions of my own.

I do have a good analytical mind, and am excellent with debating with and persuading people, and am excellent at constructing arguments both orally and with the written word (all my life people have said I should go to law school). Going to law school to get an excellent education and make me a smarter person is an enticing prospect. Plus I am currently stuck in the Midwest, and I see law school as a ticket out of here and a chance to finally go to the West where I've always wanted to be. I also am having trouble finding employment. Despite having a high GPA and 5 internships, I have applied to over 300 jobs and haven't really gotten anywhere.

Another problem/benefit I have is my crippling financial dependence on my parents; they paid for all of my college (so no loans for me), and would pay for most, if not all, of my law school. A free JD...doesn't sound like a bad option. But because of that there are many restrictions on me, specifically where in the country they'd be willing to let me go and what kind of work they'd be happy with me doing. And I know for certain my Dad doesn't like the idea of me going to California.

I've been studying for the LSAT for about a month now. I started with super low scores, but have worked my way up to upper 150s, and am studying to get into the 165-170 range for the October test. I have interned at the State's Attorney's Office before, which I loathed.

So, what are your thoughts; yay or nay for law school?

Do you share this account?

RamTitan · Post by **RamTitan** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:48 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:For some context, read the first TLS post by OP.

Am I not allowed to change how I feel? I wrote that post five months ago when I was losing my mind from being unemployed post-grad; I think it was you who said that I needed to get a job and see how I felt before making an important decision like this. Well (if that was you), you were right, as it has given me perspective. I've put in serious work studying the LSAT, and reflected on as to what I want to do. I feel confident in saying I want to be an attorney, and that I'm going to go to law school.

RamTitan · Post by **RamTitan** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:49 pm

totesTheGoat wrote:
RamTitan wrote:Hey everyone, I've been debating with my parents about the importance of going to a t-14 school. I've been studying for the Feb. 2016 LSAT since May, and am now at a 170. I hope to get a perfect score, and would love to go to a top 3 school, but any elite school would make me happy. However, my parents don't share this sentiment. They don't understand why I've been studying so much, and think I should just go ahead and take it and go to a school like SIUC or SLU (I live in Saint Louis). I'd ignore them, but they are the ones who will be paying for my education, so I'm trying to get them to understand the importance of this test and for going to go a high-ranking school. This process of making them understand is extremely difficult though, as they refuse to read any articles I send to them.

Can I get any help on this situation?

1) SLU has a 40% chance of you not having a bar required job after graduating.
2) SLU has a 16.1% chance of you being underemployed*
3) SIUC has a 40% chance of you not having a bar required job after graduating.
4) SIUC has a 25% chance of you being underemployed

SIUC salaries: 75th percentile: $60k, 50th percentile: $50k, 25th percentile: $41k
SLU doesn't publish their salaries, but given the distribution of biglaw to small law, it's probably only slightly better than SIUC

Check out this link for where I got most of the info:

http://www.lstscorereports.com/compare/ ... ern/washu/

Both SLU and SIUC are completely not worth attending. Even if you were a top 25% student (not guaranteed), you're gonna be in for an uphill battle to find a decent job.

I punched in a 174 and 3.65 GPA into myLSN.info. You're looking at potentially 6 figures in scholarship at NW and WUSTL. http://mylsn.info/qp4b8f/

Go play around with mylsn.info and put in your actual numbers. You don't necessarily need your parents' money, and you can definitely tell them "thanks for offering to help with law school, but I really think I will have better opportunities at ______ instead."

Those tools are amazing. Thanks for sharing!

RamTitan · Post by **RamTitan** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:50 pm

Big Red wrote:
RamTitan wrote: I hope to get a perfect score, and would love to go to a top 3 school, but any elite school would make me happy.

RamTitan wrote:I'll try to keep this as general as possible, so that way it will be useful for other people in the same situation.

I am a recent college graduate (English Writing major, 3.67 GPA, selective (but not prestigious) liberal arts college in the Midwest), and am trying to decide whether or not going to law school is the right option for me.

My reasons for wanting to go to law school are that I want to be a talent agent or an entertainment lawyer; I am passionate about the entertainment industry, and really want to find a way to start a career in that field any way possible. However, I am a naturally creative person; I used to want to be a filmmaker, used to be involved in theater as an actor, and still want to be a creative writer/screenwriter. So in short, I don't want to go to law school to become an attorney necessarily, which is apparently considered to be a huge red flag. I want to be a talent agent so I can ensure that the artists I know have the careers they deserve, but I still have artistic ambitions of my own.

I do have a good analytical mind, and am excellent with debating with and persuading people, and am excellent at constructing arguments both orally and with the written word (all my life people have said I should go to law school). Going to law school to get an excellent education and make me a smarter person is an enticing prospect. Plus I am currently stuck in the Midwest, and I see law school as a ticket out of here and a chance to finally go to the West where I've always wanted to be. I also am having trouble finding employment. Despite having a high GPA and 5 internships, I have applied to over 300 jobs and haven't really gotten anywhere.

Another problem/benefit I have is my crippling financial dependence on my parents; they paid for all of my college (so no loans for me), and would pay for most, if not all, of my law school. A free JD...doesn't sound like a bad option. But because of that there are many restrictions on me, specifically where in the country they'd be willing to let me go and what kind of work they'd be happy with me doing. And I know for certain my Dad doesn't like the idea of me going to California.

I've been studying for the LSAT for about a month now. I started with super low scores, but have worked my way up to upper 150s, and am studying to get into the 165-170 range for the October test. I have interned at the State's Attorney's Office before, which I loathed.

So, what are your thoughts; yay or nay for law school?
Do you share this account?

No, that was my first post. But I don't feel that way anymore. I want to be an attorney.

CanadianWolf · Post by **CanadianWolf** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:58 am

OP: I did not intend to upset you by suggesting that others read your first post--which contains relevant background information which you chose to share.

pancakes3 · Post by **pancakes3** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:06 am

^ namely GPA, not your career proclivities. Your parents are wrong. Max out your LSATs. I'm guessing your parents want you to attend a lower-ranked school because it means you'd be applying earlier, enrolling earlier, and matriculating earlier?

RamTitan · Post by **RamTitan** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:04 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:OP: I did not intend to upset you by suggesting that others read your first post--which contains relevant background information which you chose to share.

Wolf, you did not upset me, but I wanted it to be abundantly clear to everyone that the attitude I had five months ago is not the one I have now. I didn't want this thread to turn into a "do not go to law school" conversation.

RamTitan · Post by **RamTitan** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:08 pm

pancakes3 wrote:^ namely GPA, not your career proclivities. Your parents are wrong. Max out your LSATs. I'm guessing your parents want you to attend a lower-ranked school because it means you'd be applying earlier, enrolling earlier, and matriculating earlier?

Pretty much this. There are some other factors; my Dad is convinced that what law school you go to doesn't matter (had the same attitude with undergrad institutions). The comment he most often makes in response to my arguments is "but what if you just wanted to be an estate planner in the St. Louis area?" This is funny to me, as I've never said that is what I wanted to do (not that I'm opposed to estate planning...could actually see myself enjoying that). I'm certain he has a preconceived notion of what I'm going to do for a career and where I'm going to live.

RamTitan · Post by **RamTitan** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:30 pm

totesTheGoat wrote:Wow, I just about nailed the GPA.

OP, your sole focus should be getting your LSAT sky high, because each point increases the chances of $$$$ at T1 schools. As I posted earlier, you have the potential for 6-figures at WUSTL or NW if you want to stay close to home.

What about on the west coast? Would a school like USC be worth going to when it has a major competitor like UCLA in the same city (as well as Stanford and Berkley grads trickling down after graduation)?

Jchance · Post by **Jchance** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:40 pm

I find it funny that it's not the kids but the parents who think of their kids as special snowflakes. Your best bet is to educate them, OP, or pay for law school yourself.

abl · Post by **abl** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:49 pm

RamTitan wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:^ namely GPA, not your career proclivities. Your parents are wrong. Max out your LSATs. I'm guessing your parents want you to attend a lower-ranked school because it means you'd be applying earlier, enrolling earlier, and matriculating earlier?
Pretty much this. There are some other factors; my Dad is convinced that what law school you go to doesn't matter (had the same attitude with undergrad institutions). The comment he most often makes in response to my arguments is "but what if you just wanted to be an estate planner in the St. Louis area?" This is funny to me, as I've never said that is what I wanted to do (not that I'm opposed to estate planning...could actually see myself enjoying that). I'm certain he has a preconceived notion of what I'm going to do for a career and where I'm going to live.

First of all, you probably don't want to be an estate planner. Those jobs can be pretty boring, and generally are not well compensated.

But even if you did, I'm not sure that SLU gives you as good of a chance as Wash U. The market is tough right now and there's no reason for you to give up an advantage for no reason.

More importantly, though, going somewhere like Wash U rather than SLU gives you more better options. Chances are, you get to law school and realize you're interested in something different from what you'd originally thought. If that turns out to be small town wills and estates, well, you might be ok at SLU. If it turns out to be almost anything else--and it probably will (the more competitive jobs are more competitive for a reason), you'll be better off at Wash U (or an even better school).

I hate to say this, but your dad is just wrong. He's wrong about undergrad and he's even more wrong about law school.