How do you profile a law school? Forum

[mudiverse]

Hi All,

I am a new applicant in preparation mode for this coming cycle and I am trying to research schools across the T-14. Essentially, I am profiling them by program, but I am struggling to see which school has a specialty in a given area or what their strongest program is. There seems to be a public perception of certain schools excelling in an area (e.g. NYU and public interest), but how does one find out what this is? I can google this stuff, but schools across the T-14 are commonly accepted as "good at everything" and you'll see evidence of this when they reappear in top rankings for every category from technology to environmental law. How do I get more specific with each school? Are there resources out there people can recommend?

Thanks for any tips from you experienced applicants out there.

EDIT: I failed to mention earlier that I am looking to do this so I can make a decent "Why X law school" essay, but am at a loss for good research material into law school specialties.

[metroidbum]

Apply, see where you get in, and with how much money, then come back to this.

[mudiverse]

Apply, see where you get in, and with how much money, then come back to this.

Not sure this is the best approach, since I am trying to write targetted personal statements per school. I have a number of reach schools since I am a splitter, so every little bit counts. You know what I mean?

[rinkrat19]

Specialties are largely meaningless, as they rarely have any effect in your job hunt.

Job placement, cost (i.e. debt at graduation), and location are the three biggest factors in choosing a school. The fact that Vermont's environmental law program is ranked higher than NYU's is way, way down the list of things that matter.

[BigZuck]

Specialty rankings or programs or whatever don't really matter and are way, way, way down on the list compared to things like overall cost and job placement and the size of the bathroom stalls I'm the library and quality of the law school coffee stand.

Just focus on cost and job placement. If all else is truly equal then you can go ahead and choose NYU over Columbia if you're PI oriented or just like it more or whatever.

[metroidbum]

Apply, see where you get in, and with how much money, then come back to this.

Not sure this is the best approach, since I am trying to write targetted personal statements per school. I have a number of reach schools since I am a splitter, so every little bit counts. You know what I mean?

Outside of Berkeley, Stanford, and Yale, you probably don't need a targeted personal statement, and I would focus your energy on making one good personal statement that you can use broadly rather than trying to make 14 targeted ones (and your ps should be mostly about you, not the school)

Note that this is different from a "why x law school" essay, which has been shown to be helpful at Penn, Virginia, and Michigan. For those schools I would write "Why x law school"


EDIT: Definitely write a targeted PS for Berkeley (they want it to be four pages and have some other specific requirements I think) but just write one great personal statement that you can use for the rest, and supplement with the "why x" essays for the schools that offer them.

[rnoodles]

Apply, see where you get in, and with how much money, then come back to this.

Not sure this is the best approach, since I am trying to write targetted personal statements per school. I have a number of reach schools since I am a splitter, so every little bit counts. You know what I mean?

Metroid is still right. And I wouldn't write a targeted PS to a school because that's basically a "Why X" essay. If you do want to target a school in a PS, just mention it in your last paragraph only if it ties in flawlessly and naturally with your personal statement's narrative. If it doesn't, or if it seems pretty disingenuous, it will end up hurting you.

[mudiverse]

Apply, see where you get in, and with how much money, then come back to this.

Not sure this is the best approach, since I am trying to write targetted personal statements per school. I have a number of reach schools since I am a splitter, so every little bit counts. You know what I mean?

Outside of Berkeley, Stanford, and Yale, you probably don't need a targeted personal statement, and I would focus your energy on making one good personal statement that you can use broadly rather than trying to make 14 targeted ones (and your ps should be mostly about you, not the school)

Note that this is different from a "why x law school" essay, which has been shown to be helpful at Penn, Virginia, and Michigan. For those schools I would write "Why x law school"


EDIT: Definitely write a targeted PS for Berkeley (they want it to be four pages and have some other specific requirements I think) but just write one great personal statement that you can use for the rest, and supplement with the "why x" essays for the schools that offer them.

I can certainly make a broad PS and separate "Why X law school" essay, but the question still remains on how to address it. How do people answer it other then saying "Wow Northwestern has great placement in BigLaw and great corporate law classes" when you could say the exact same thing about Columbia. I am at a loss and all I the recommendations I see is "research the school". Well what resources can you use to research a school, when all I can find on their page is some boilerplate info?

[metroidbum]

Apply, see where you get in, and with how much money, then come back to this.

Not sure this is the best approach, since I am trying to write targetted personal statements per school. I have a number of reach schools since I am a splitter, so every little bit counts. You know what I mean?

Outside of Berkeley, Stanford, and Yale, you probably don't need a targeted personal statement, and I would focus your energy on making one good personal statement that you can use broadly rather than trying to make 14 targeted ones (and your ps should be mostly about you, not the school)

Note that this is different from a "why x law school" essay, which has been shown to be helpful at Penn, Virginia, and Michigan. For those schools I would write "Why x law school"


EDIT: Definitely write a targeted PS for Berkeley (they want it to be four pages and have some other specific requirements I think) but just write one great personal statement that you can use for the rest, and supplement with the "why x" essays for the schools that offer them.

I can certainly make a broad PS and separate "Why X law school" essay, but the question still remains on how to address it. How do people answer it other then saying "Wow Northwestern has great placement in BigLaw and great corporate law classes" when you could say the exact same thing about Columbia. I am at a loss.

"I love Chicago, the opportunity to learn right near a major hub of transactional work/the opportunity to put my public service to good use helping the urban poor"
"I appreciate the more mature environment afforded by being around a student body primarily composed of those who have taken time off"
"Your lakefront buildings are gorgeous and as a lover of aesthetics I enjoy the opportunity to be in such an environment"

You still shouldn't bring up specifics about the school in your PS at all.

As for how to learn things like this, use their website. Find out what the school thinks is awesome about itself. Read through school threads on TLS, see why other people are interested in them. Get in touch with current students. Etc, etc. Focusing on the location and attributes that follow from that location is a good bet.

[BigZuck]

Apply, see where you get in, and with how much money, then come back to this.

Not sure this is the best approach, since I am trying to write targetted personal statements per school. I have a number of reach schools since I am a splitter, so every little bit counts. You know what I mean?

Outside of Berkeley, Stanford, and Yale, you probably don't need a targeted personal statement, and I would focus your energy on making one good personal statement that you can use broadly rather than trying to make 14 targeted ones (and your ps should be mostly about you, not the school)

Note that this is different from a "why x law school" essay, which has been shown to be helpful at Penn, Virginia, and Michigan. For those schools I would write "Why x law school"


EDIT: Definitely write a targeted PS for Berkeley (they want it to be four pages and have some other specific requirements I think) but just write one great personal statement that you can use for the rest, and supplement with the "why x" essays for the schools that offer them.

I can certainly make a broad PS and separate "Why X law school" essay, but the question still remains on how to address it. How do people answer it other then saying "Wow Northwestern has great placement in BigLaw and great corporate law classes" when you could say the exact same thing about Columbia. I am at a loss and all I the recommendations I see is "research the school". Well what resources can you use to research a school, when all I can find on their page is some boilerplate info?

Look at clinical offerings, special programs of study/specializations, etc. Schools presumably like their marketing materials if they put it on their website, just regurgitate it back to them (in a nuanced and sophisticated way of course).

[mudiverse]

Look at clinical offerings, special programs of study/specializations, etc. Schools presumably like their marketing materials if they put it on their website, just regurgitate it back to them (in a nuanced and sophisticated way of course).

OK here's an illustration of the exercise I just went through. NYU clinic page states,

Business Law Transactions Clinic
Students participating in the Business Law Transactions Clinic provide legal services on transactional and governance matters relating to the business needs of the clinic’s clients. The clinic provides legal services to non-profit organizations, as well as to small businesses, entrepreneurs and social enterprises that may not have access to the traditional legal market and that operate in areas of concern to the public. The students’ work will include planning transactions and drafting contracts, memoranda of understanding, leases, promissory notes, employment agreements and other operating agreements; advising executives and boards on governance and disclosure practices; reviewing and preparing bylaws, conflict-of-interest, investment, social media and other board policies and materials, and employee manuals, committee charters; and developing analytical, planning, editorial and counseling skills in the context of client projects and reality-grounded class work; planning transactions; drafting contracts and other operating agreements; and preparing work plan and other project documents. We have a weekly two-hour seminar, which will focus on the business lawyer’s multiple roles in supporting the clinic’s field work. We also conduct weekly one-hour meetings for each student team with their supervising attorneys and meet at additional times during the week as the client work requires. Taught by adjunct professors Stephanie Abramson and Sean Delany. (Offered Fall 2015 and Spring 2016)

Here's another from GULC

Social Enterprise and
Non-Profit Law Clinic

Students represent non-profit organizations,
social enterprises, and small businesses on
transactional, corporate governance, and
strategic business matters.

What's the substantive difference between the two? I can do the same exercise for most schools and they'll all share basically the same offerings. Who is to say what's the best clinic? Which programs are the most popular and lead to stronger career prospects? I guess the real question is does it even matter and should I just cite them all the same way and change the name?

[smile0751]

You're missing the part where you relate it back to you. Program X is perfect for me, because Y.

If you can say the same thing to two schools, all the better for you! Less writing!

[A. Nony Mouse]

If you're interested in a non-profit clinic, then you can tell both NYU and GULC that they appeal to you because of their non-profit clinic, because you're interested in that clinic for [reasons]. When they have the same thing, you can target both with the same information.

But I agree that generally you don't need to write targeted PSes.

[shump92]

+1 to pretty much all of this thread.

The one thing I would add is it helps to speak with people who are familiar with your target schools if possible. This is for the Why X essays BTW. Being able to be organically specific is key for those addenda. Also just be genuine with your reasons and if you really cannot write a good Why X essay for those few schools mentioned above, that's probably a sign that you shouldn't be applying there.

[Kinky John]

I think targeting your PS can be a good idea if it's genuine. Follow smile's advice on that. If it sounds cut-and-paste when you read it with fresh eyes, cut it.

Definitely not a necessity, though, and probably more work than it's worth in the end.

[Mack.Hambleton]

I would not write targeted PS's. Just write a why x for schools that want them (ie NOT HYSCCN). Also dont agree with metroid re: doing anything special for Berkeley, not necessary from what I've seen.

As others have said just go for job placement and cost, it'll likely work itself out when you have all your offers.

[metroidbum]

I would not write targeted PS's. Just write a why x for schools that want them (ie NOT HYSCCN). Also dont agree with metroid re: doing anything special for Berkeley, not necessary from what I've seen.

As others have said just go for job placement and cost, it'll likely work itself out when you have all your offers.

Berkeley says that the PS should "ideally be four pages long" under their "parts of the application" section. Combine that with their seeming willingness to be a little more black box than the rest of the non-YS T14, and I would write a four page one for them just to be safe.

https://www.law.berkeley.edu/admissions ... jd-degree/

[Mack.Hambleton]

I haven't heard anyone having problems just writing two tho is what I'm saying (also I submitted two different two page PSs in the two years I applied and was accepted both times, but obviously that's just one data point).