Do I have any chance at T-14 Schools (specifically Columbia and Harvard)? Forum

[Neacal]

I'm sure the forum is saturated with questions like this, but I'm just starting my application process and I'd like to know where I stand.

My dream is to go into private international law and work in London (where I was raised). I'm half English and half Cuban American, so I guess I'm technically an "underrepresented minority" but I've never put any ethnic info in any of my past college applications. Since I want to work in the UK, I'm focusing on American JD programs that offer joint degree programs with British universities. Harvard and Columbia have always been my dream schools, and I find their British joint degree programmes to be very appealing.

Education

B.A. in International Relations from the University of Miami (3.9 GPA)
MPhil in Development Studies from the University of Cambridge (starting in October)

LSAT

I haven't taken the LSAT yet, but I'm planning on taking it in October or December. I haven't started studying in earnest, but I took my first practice test today and got a 164. This doesn't seem to be good enough for the schools I'm most interested in, but I hope/think that I can raise my score to somewhere around 170 if I prepare seriously enough over the next few months. Does anyone think this goal is realistic? If I don't succeed in reaching that goal, do I stand any chance at any of the T-14 schools (much less Columbia and Harvard)?

Thank you all for your input!

[Clemenceau]

You wont get into a single t14 without a real lsat score.

Study hard and do as well as you think possible. You'll be just fine.

[Neacal]

You wont get into a single t14 without a real lsat score.

Study hard and do as well as you think possible. You'll be just fine.

Well, there's no arguing with that

But if that were a real (rather than hypothetical) score do you think I would stand any chance?

[PrezRand]

You wont get into a single t14 without a real lsat score.

Study hard and do as well as you think possible. You'll be just fine.

Well, there's no arguing with that

But if that were a real (rather than hypothetical) score do you think I would stand any chance?

164? You might not even get into UT with that.

[Neacal]

You wont get into a single t14 without a real lsat score.

Study hard and do as well as you think possible. You'll be just fine.

Well, there's no arguing with that

But if that were a real (rather than hypothetical) score do you think I would stand any chance?

164? You might not even get into UT with that.

Hopefully I can improve then! I haven't studied/reviewed for the exam at all at this point, but I did just sign up for a prep class. The first class was today and all we did was take a practice test. I got a 164 (which like you said isn't great), but I hope I can get that up to like 170ish over the next few months if I actually put the time and effort in. I'm not sure how realistic that is though.

We don't really do standardized tests in England, so I struggled with the ACT too when I was applying to undergrad schools but, after a few rough rounds of practice, I ended up getting a decent (if not spectacular) score of 34 on the actual exam. I'm hoping that something similar will happen this time round.

[Ron Howard]

You wont get into a single t14 without a real lsat score.

Study hard and do as well as you think possible. You'll be just fine.

Well, there's no arguing with that

But if that were a real (rather than hypothetical) score do you think I would stand any chance?

You could pay sticker at a lower T14 with that score (if you are lucky). But you can do better. Much better. You can get a full ride to Columbia if you get that score up. That should be your goal. Don't be content with your current score. Work as hard as you have to--and it might not have to be that hard--to get it up enough to make that happen. It will be worth it.

[rnoodles]

We don't really do standardized tests in England, so I struggled with the ACT too when I was applying to undergrad schools but, after a few rough rounds of practice, I ended up getting a decent (if not spectacular) score of 34 on the actual exam. I'm hoping that something similar will happen this time round.

Yes, because a 99% percentile composite score is "decent" lol study just as hard and score just as well on the LSAT and you'll be fine

[Ron Howard]

99th percentile on the LSAT is 173, which happens to be Harvard's median LSAT

[Mack.Hambleton]

99th percentile on the LSAT is 173, which happens to be Harvard's median LSAT

It starts at 172 btw

[Ron Howard]

99th percentile on the LSAT is 173, which happens to be Harvard's median LSAT

It starts at 172 btw

I stand corrected. But still go for the 173+

[TheProdigal]

What type of prep course are you taking? As most of them seem more focused on a mid-160s score as a goal, they may do you more harm than good -- or at least hold you back from your potential.

[Neacal]

We don't really do standardized tests in England, so I struggled with the ACT too when I was applying to undergrad schools but, after a few rough rounds of practice, I ended up getting a decent (if not spectacular) score of 34 on the actual exam. I'm hoping that something similar will happen this time round.

Yes, because a 99% percentile composite score is "decent" lol study just as hard and score just as well on the LSAT and you'll be fine

LOL, I was definitely thrilled/shocked that I managed to score that well, but Yale didn't seem to be overly impressed

In retrospect, I'm thrilled that I went to the University of Miami though. They gave me a full ride and my parents were really good about saving for University, so I can use the money I saved on undergrad to fund my legal studies.

[Neacal]

What type of prep course are you taking? As most of them seem more focused on a mid-160s score as a goal, they may do you more harm than good -- or at least hold you back from your potential.

That's somewhat disturbing

I'm just taking a cookie-cutter course from Kaplan. It ends in August, so I was planning on spending most of September self-studying in advance of the October exam. If I'm still feeling underprepared, I might opt for the December session instead though. Do you have any recommendations about alternatives? I enrolled in this class because one of my friends was taking it as well, but I'm beginning to think I should have done a little more research.

[rnoodles]

We don't really do standardized tests in England, so I struggled with the ACT too when I was applying to undergrad schools but, after a few rough rounds of practice, I ended up getting a decent (if not spectacular) score of 34 on the actual exam. I'm hoping that something similar will happen this time round.

Yes, because a 99% percentile composite score is "decent" lol study just as hard and score just as well on the LSAT and you'll be fine

LOL, I was definitely thrilled/shocked that I managed to score that well, but Yale didn't seem to be overly impressed

In retrospect, I'm thrilled that I went to the University of Miami though. They gave me a full ride and my parents were really good about saving for University, so I can use the money I saved on undergrad to fund my legal studies.

Understandable, but now at least you know you're capable of doing it. And it's all good about Yale. Knew tons of kids who got into Ivies straight out of hs who I didn't think would and tons more get rejected who I thought were sure fire admits. Just focus on the LSAT and hopefully you'll be able to make up for the snub at YLS (or HS). Plus, it's a good thing you saved your money on UG cause you'll need it for HYS

Edit: Just read your most recent post and I'm not shocked about Kaplan. Definitely not worth it bro. Had great results with Powerscore/self-studying myself.

[Neacal]

You wont get into a single t14 without a real lsat score.

Study hard and do as well as you think possible. You'll be just fine.

Well, there's no arguing with that

But if that were a real (rather than hypothetical) score do you think I would stand any chance?

You could pay sticker at a lower T14 with that score (if you are lucky). But you can do better. Much better. You can get a full ride to Columbia if you get that score up. That should be your goal. Don't be content with your current score. Work as hard as you have to--and it might not have to be that hard--to get it up enough to make that happen. It will be worth it.

Thanks for the encouragement! I really hope I can get my score up!

[chuckbass]

What the hell is private international law in London?

If you want to work in London, you'd be restricted to doing capital markets work for a handful of firms basically from what I understand.

[Neacal]

What the hell is private international law in London?

If you want to work in London, you'd be restricted to doing capital markets work for a handful of firms basically from what I understand.

Well, I want to keep my options open on both sides of the Atlantic (which is why I'm so interested in the joint Columbia/LSE and Havard/Cambridge programmes), but London is my home and I'd love to live and work there in the future.

My Aunt works at a small firm there and essentially helps wealthy individuals and small companies with their legal affairs outside of the country. She always says she's in "private international law" to distinguish it from the more glamorous Human Rights type of international law, but I'm not sure if that's the technical term for he work.

Her work has always appealed to me, but I'm by no means committed to it. I minored in economics, so definitely wouldn't mind working in the financial sector either, especially if the job market is better.

[gnomgnomuch]

I LOVE LONDON <3 Have an offer from UCL for an MPP actually haha, and studied abroad at Birckbeck.

I'd say don't do Kaplan - I've had many friends have awful experiences with them. They were trying to teach to a 160ish score, because that's what most people would be ecstatic with. I decided to just buy a whole bunch of LSAT books and self study, it worked for me. Went from a 144(146?) to a high of a 168 in about 2 months of dedicated studying and another month of goofy studying. Than, I decided to postpone LS and stopped studying.

A 164 3.9 would put you in the running for the bottom T-14's probably, but almost 100% at sticker price. At the 173 score you'll prob be seeing full rides, potentially the Ruby/Hamilton and almost certainly the Mordecai/Dillard/Darrow. (This doesn't guarantee anything, but it's at THOSE numbers where people usually start to get the full ride, named scholarships.)

173/3.9 with a masters from Cambridge would prob be in at H and have a serious shot at YS.

[Medicine Man]

OP, a K-JD from UMiami was accepted at Harvard this cycle off the WL with a 3.95 GPA and a 171 LSAT.

[iamgeorgebush]

164 is a very good place to start on the LSAT. Better than my first practice test, and I eventually scored in the mid-170s after a few months of studying. Start studying and don't stop until you're consistently PTing around 175+. With that, you'll stand a great shot at Harvard and Columbia as well as all the other T14 schools. Shoot for a Hamilton (full scholarship) at Columbia---it's definitely within your reach.

Good luck.

[scone]

If you want to work in London, why not do the GDL + LPC? It will take you less time (2 yrs vs 3), and if you get a training contract you'll actually be paid while doing them. The only point of doing a JD is if you want really to work in the US.

[star fox]

I'm sure the forum is saturated with questions like this, but I'm just starting my application process and I'd like to know where I stand.

My dream is to go into private international law and work in London (where I was raised). I'm half English and half Cuban American, so I guess I'm technically an "underrepresented minority" but I've never put any ethnic info in any of my past college applications. Since I want to work in the UK, I'm focusing on American JD programs that offer joint degree programs with British universities. Harvard and Columbia have always been my dream schools, and I find their British joint degree programmes to be very appealing.

Education

B.A. in International Relations from the University of Miami (3.9 GPA)
MPhil in Development Studies from the University of Cambridge (starting in October)

LSAT

I haven't taken the LSAT yet, but I'm planning on taking it in October or December. I haven't started studying in earnest, but I took my first practice test today and got a 164. This doesn't seem to be good enough for the schools I'm most interested in, but I hope/think that I can raise my score to somewhere around 170 if I prepare seriously enough over the next few months. Does anyone think this goal is realistic? If I don't succeed in reaching that goal, do I stand any chance at any of the T-14 schools (much less Columbia and Harvard)?

Thank you all for your input!

Come back in October or December and be willing to re-take.

See you then.

[twenty]

The only point of doing a JD is if you want really to work in the US.

[ChinaCat]

oops, double post.

[ChinaCat]

Assuming you gave yourself the proper amount of time for each section, a 164 is a great score for your first diagnostic. You should aim for a 175+ and I think you can get there if you study hard.