NYU Law ($$$$) vs. GW Law ($$$) Forum

[aclang24]

Was admitted into NYU Law off the waiting list a couple weeks ago. They're not giving me any money (I already appealed this decision, and they said they are still not giving me any money). It seems to make the most sense to take on as little debt as possible, and I know that NYU caters largely to Big Law, but it's hard to say no to NYU's high rates of graduate employment, and a ton of very interesting sounding clinics. If you have any insight into what it's like to live and study at NYU, I would love to hear it. Here's a quick breakdown of relevant facts:

NYU: CoA ~$240,000 for three years (Total CoA ~$80,000/yr, no scholarship or financial aid)

GW: CoA ~$150,000 for three years (Total CoA ~$80,000/yr minus scholarship of $30,000/yr)

Paying with loans

Want to work on the East Coast (Between New England and DC)

Mostly interested Public Interest Law

LSAT 169/ GPA 3.69 (Tufts University)

I have taken the LSAT twice

[hearsay77]

Do you not have any lower T14 options scholarships? I don't think anyone should take almost $250k in debt for law school, even for NYU. Thats also a very high price to pay for GW. You should have better options with your numbers!

[Kinky John]

Specifically Cornell since you're above both their medians

[03152016]

why are people reflexively saying lower t14 here

tcr is probably going to be forgetting t14 altogether and targeting a strong regional in the area she wants to work with a full ride

[03152016]

unless op's goal is preftigious pi, in which case it's back to the nyu bargaining table

[aclang24]

I didn't apply to Cornell, but I applied to Georgetown, Penn, and Columbia, but they all waitlisted me. When I put down my first deposit for GW, I had to bow out of consideration at the other schools that had admitted me. I'll have to take out loans either way, but I think it would be far more manageable at GW.

Do any of you know about the overall environment at NYU, or if I would be able to apply again for some sort of scholarship after my first year there?

[aclang24]

I didn't apply to Cornell, but I applied to Georgetown, Penn, and Columbia, but they all waitlisted me. When I put down my first deposit for GW, I had to bow out of consideration at the other schools that had admitted me. I'll have to take out loans either way, but I think it would be far more manageable at GW.

Do any of you know about the overall environment at NYU, or if I would be able to apply again for some sort of scholarship after my first year there?

[PoopNpants]

If you want biglaw why in the blue hell would you not apply to Cornell? If even for scholarship negotiation purposes.
I think tcr is re-take, reapply more broadly, don't do NYU with that much debt please

[Kinky John]

why are people reflexively saying lower t14 here

tcr is probably going to be forgetting t14 altogether and targeting a strong regional in the area she wants to work with a full ride

Because OP said "mostly interested"

[BigZuck]

Can you flesh out what your specific career goals are?

What do you mean by public interest?

[03152016]

plunging into t14 debt to attend cornell for pi is incredibly stupid
we need to listen to what op is saying before giving advice

nyu obviously has advantages in the pi space, but depending on op's goals, she probably doesn't need those advantages
she'll probably be best off just going to the strong regional on a full scholarship and stipend, graduating debt free

people, stop advising t14 + bigdebt for every scenario regardless of the facts, thanks

[03152016]

If you want biglaw why in the blue hell would you not apply to Cornell? If even for scholarship negotiation purposes.
I think tcr is re-take, reapply more broadly, don't do NYU with that much debt please

like this is what i'm talking about
we're not even listening to op anymore

[BigZuck]

If you want biglaw why in the blue hell would you not apply to Cornell? If even for scholarship negotiation purposes.
I think tcr is re-take, reapply more broadly, don't do NYU with that much debt please

like this is what i'm talking about
we're not even listening to op anymore

For shame

I've come to expect more from PoopNpants

[Kinky John]

plunging into t14 debt to attend cornell for pi is incredibly stupid
we need to listen to what op is saying before giving advice

nyu obviously has advantages in the pi space, but depending on op's goals, she probably doesn't need those advantages
she'll probably be best off just going to the strong regional on a full scholarship and stipend, graduating debt free

people, stop advising t14 + bigdebt for every scenario regardless of the facts, thanks

http://cornell.lawschoolnumbers.com/app ... cholarship

OP is saying they're mostly interested in PI. Why shouldn't they keep their options open?

[PoopNpants]

Wow. My bad, I could've sworn OP said something out biglaw prospects being a reason for NYU.
For biglaw isn't Cornell a good option at a reasonable price? someone said OP was above both 75ths for Cornell, should snag significant moolah, no?

[Kinky John]

Wow. My bad, I could've sworn OP said something out biglaw prospects being a reason for NYU.
For biglaw isn't Cornell a good option at a reasonable price? someone said OP was above both 75ths for Cornell, should snag significant moolah, no?

Ugh.

[03152016]

going into bigdebt because there's a possibility you'll change your mind later is a bad idea
that's not keeping your options open – that's shooting yourself in the foot
imo, if op truly doesn't know why she wants to go to law school, then she should sit out a cycle
if she is fairly certain she wants pi, then strong regional full scholly+stipend just makes sense, unless op is looking at preftigious pi

also, op doesn't have the numbers for those big ticket schollys in your link. i think she'll get some decent $$, but she'll still be taking on bigdebt that she doesn't need to take on

[Kinky John]

going into bigdebt because there's a possibility you'll change your mind later is a bad idea
that's not keeping your options open – that's shooting yourself in the foot
imo, if op truly doesn't know why she wants to go to law school, then she should sit out a cycle
if she is fairly certain she wants pi, then strong regional full scholly+stipend just makes sense, unless op is looking at preftigious pi

also, op doesn't have the numbers for those big ticket schollys in your link. i think she'll get some decent $$, but she'll still be taking on bigdebt that she doesn't need to take on

Based on what I see, it looks like somewhere between $75k-105k total. So on par with the GW offer.

I mean, you're saying we're not listening to the OP, and you're advising on all these different possibilities that OP never brought up. If we're going to take a narrow view, minimizing debt while maximizing employment opportunity is the goal. Are you saying that a student at a lower T14 will be locked out of PI like a student at a regional will be locked out of biglaw?

If that's the case, then yeah OP should decide exactly what they want to do. If not, how much is it worth to OP to have the flexibility in employment? We don't need to come up with an answer (e.g. I never said go to a lower T14), OP needs to do that.

edit: Regardless, they should reapply

[03152016]

going into bigdebt because there's a possibility you'll change your mind later is a bad idea
that's not keeping your options open – that's shooting yourself in the foot
imo, if op truly doesn't know why she wants to go to law school, then she should sit out a cycle
if she is fairly certain she wants pi, then strong regional full scholly+stipend just makes sense, unless op is looking at preftigious pi

also, op doesn't have the numbers for those big ticket schollys in your link. i think she'll get some decent $$, but she'll still be taking on bigdebt that she doesn't need to take on

Based on what I see, it looks like somewhere between $75k-105k total. So on par with the GW offer.

I mean, you're saying we're not listening to the OP, and you're advising on all these different possibilities that OP never brought up. If we're going to take a narrow view, minimizing debt while maximizing employment opportunity is the goal. Are you saying that a student at a lower T14 will be locked out of PI like a student at a regional will be locked out of biglaw?

If that's the case, then yeah OP should decide exactly what they want to do. If not, how much is it worth to OP to have the flexibility in employment? We don't need to come up with an answer (e.g. I never said go to a lower T14), OP needs to do that.

edit: Regardless, they should reapply

idk why you're assuming op will do something different than her stated goal
we need to listen to what op is saying. the fact that she said "mostly pi" instead of "pi" is no reason to assume $200k bigdebt is defensible based on some remote possibility she'll decide on something other than pi
cornell with only a $75k scholly is probably around the $200k range of bigdebt
it simply isn't a good outcome. no reason to take on t14 bigdebt here
unless she wants preftigious pi, in which case cornell is little to no help anyways

[03152016]

you need to focus on what op said: pi
not these other hypothetical scenarios that op hasn't indicated

[Kinky John]

I agree with your advice 100%, I just disagree that you think we're not listening (with the exception of poopnpants). We interpret "mostly PI" differently and that's cool.

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

Neither. Both are horrible options. Attend Cornell with $/$$ or a T30 with full scholarship.

[03152016]

the big takeaway i think we all agree on: op, minimize your debt
nyu no aid will be over $300k
cornell hypothetical aid leaves you approaching $200k
gw aid same thing, approaching $200k

this is what i would do if i were in your position op

first, i would get a more clear picture on what these numbers really mean. $80k per year doesn't mean $240k at repayment. (1) google lawschool22 cost calculator, (2) check cost of attendance pages on school websites, (3) research lrap programs, (4) check out estimates on lawschooltransparency.com. absolutely follow these steps, get informed about what you'll really be paying

second, i would get clear about what area of pi (or other areas of law) you're interested in before sending any deposits. (1) consider sitting out a cycle to solidfy your goals and gain resume experience in your field, (2) use aba 509 disclosures to learn about placement, it's compiled on lawschooltransparency.com, (3) talk to practitioners in the specific area and find out how they recruit and what they look for; also, research the schools of lawyers in the orgs you're interested in

there are certain gov't positions, preftigious pi positions, pd positions in certain regions, etc where it's not always the best idea to go for the regional school fully. but i think it's generally pretty good advice

[03152016]

oh dear god this cornell circlejerk has got to end at some point

it is so obviously not worth it for op to take on t14 bigdebt at cornell

hutz do you go there or something

[PoopNpants]

Neither. Both are horrible options. Attend Cornell with $/$$ or a T30 with full scholarship.

How is this not most logical option? Re-apply, and while doing so re-take since you got one more take left, get that LSAT up a few points and prosper