UBC vs Lewis & Clark Forum

[MattJames324]

Hello all! I find myself in a predicament, and could use some help. I got into both of my top two choices, University of British Columbia (Vancouver, Canada) and Lewis and Clark (Portland, Oregon). I am very passionate about environmental law, which makes both schools excellent choices. UBC is a higher rated law school overall, while Lewis and Clark has one of the strongest environmental programs in the United States (if not the strongest).

Increasingly, this is becoming a question of where I would rather live, Canada or the United States. I would love to get advice from you guys though on what you see as the pros and cons. In particular, I hope to have one question answered. I am a duel citizen for the US and Canada, and one thing that intrigues me is that UBC Law has a sister program with the University of Hawaii. If I did the sister program I would be able to practice in either the US or Canada. My question therefore is, what are the opportunities for Canadian graduates coming back to the states? Are they good, or do regional difference act as a hindrance to success?

All opinions, experience, or advice is welcomed in deliberating between these two schools! Thank you for your guy's/gal's time!

-Matt

[CanadianWolf]

First, UBC is easily the better choice for job opportunities after graduation.

Second, dual US/Canadian law degree programs tend to be more of an advantage for US citizens wishing to work in Canada as the steps toward citizenship/work visa status are easier. But, since you already have dual citizenship, this is not a concern for you.
Typically the dual degree programs suggest that one do the final two years in the country where one wants to work.
Not sure about Hawaii placement.

P.S. Try lawstudents.ca website

[CanadianWolf]

With respect to environmental law programs in the US, Lewis & Clark tends to be rated in the top two along with Vermont Law School. In my opinion, Lewis & Clark's program is better, but specialty rankings mean very little in the US. (Lewis & Clark's primary law review is the Environmental Law Journal.) Neither law school is likely to yield much in the way of employment prospects. Go to UBC.

[MattJames324]

First, UBC is easily the better choice for job opportunities after graduation.

Second, dual US/Canadian law degree programs tend to be more of an advantage for US citizens wishing to work in Canada as the steps toward citizenship/work visa status are easier. But, since you already have dual citizenship, this is not a concern for you.
Typically the dual degree programs suggest that one do the final two years in the country where one wants to work.
Not sure about Hawaii placement.

P.S. Try lawstudents.ca website

Why do you say that UBC is clearly the better choice for employment? I have been trying to find employment information from them and have not found anything of true value.

Also, I am not sure if this matters, but for the joint JD with Hawaii I would be there during my 2L. 1L and 3L are at UBC.

Edit: Here are Lewis and Clark's employment information. It appears that employment has been relatively strong (especially in public interest law).

https://law.lclark.edu/live/files/17657 ... amp-tables

https://law.lclark.edu/live/files/19196 ... ey-summary

[CanadianWolf]

lawstudents.ca is a great source for info. on UBC & all other Canadian law schools.

Lewis & Clark reported to US News that less than one-third of its law students had jobs at graduation. (32% to be precise. That is considered to be very low.)

I didn't use your website references. Can you summarize them in a very brief fashion ?

Overall, the Canadian legal market has been stronger than the US market during the past years.

[MattJames324]

The website references are from the ABA. They are pretty easy to take a look at, but I will summarize what I find most important from the 2014 employment information.

234 graduates.
123 full time (bar passage required)
27 (J.D. advantage)
11 (profession position
other numbers are full time short term, part time, etc.
There were 30 unemployed yet still seeking.

Those numbers don't look to bad to me. I see where you are coming from though. The majority of those jobs required bar passage, which would explain your 32%. On the Lewis and Clark TLS page, it does state that 97% of graduates had a job 9 months after graduating.

And I have made an account at lawstudents.ca and have posted there, and will continue to do research as well. I just want to say thank you for your posts and information. Any other advice or info you could pass on to me would be greatly appreciated.

After all my research these past two days though, UBC is sounding like the safer decision. Do you know where to find employment information from UBC though? Or any good posts that discuss the topic? People keep saying employment options would be better through UBC, but I have not found concrete evidence for the statements.

[fisheatbananas]

I considered going to LC too because they offered me a scholarship, but decided not to because the employment prospects scared me

[CanadianWolf]

Again, lawstudents.ca is a great resource for any questions or concerns that you may have about Canadian law schools.

Did you apply to Victoria ?

With respect to the 97% employment figure on the Lewis & Clark website, it probably includes non-JD required & non-JD advantaged positions such as being employed as a server at Starbucks Coffee.

UBC is in a different category of law schools than is L&C. Also, if you matriculate at UBC you can spend at year in Hawaii--which might be of interest for environmental issues.

[usn26]

UBC, no contest.

[twenty]

UBC, no contest.

[Gray]

.

[MattJames324]

Again, lawstudents.ca is a great resource for any questions or concerns that you may have about Canadian law schools.

Did you apply to Victoria ?

With respect to the 97% employment figure on the Lewis & Clark website, it probably includes non-JD required & non-JD advantaged positions such as being employed as a server at Starbucks Coffee.

UBC is in a different category of law schools than is L&C. Also, if you matriculate at UBC you can spend at year in Hawaii--which might be of interest for environmental issues.

Thank you once again CandianWolf, you have been very helpful. I have been posting over at lawstduents.ca, and getting good input. I now have something like 15 people all saying L&C would be a mistake.

I did not apply to Victoria, and I am not really sure why. I think that was a mistake on my part. I had an attachment to UBC and said if I was going to go to Canada, I would go to them. Thankfully I got accepted

And I do not have a specific goal of practicing in one state, or even Canada. I am open to either avenue and see myself being very happy in either location. It seems quite certain to me now that UBC is the best way to go. Not only could I stay in Canada, but by doing my joint JD with Hawaii I could have the US credits required to take the bar in Washington or Oregon if I so chose. So not only do I have the increased employment prospects from UBC, but increased maneuverability and a possible way to take advantage of my duel citizenship. How does that sound?

[Gray]

.

[Nomo]

I don't know anything about UBC. But I do know that Lewis and Clark is almost always a bad idea.

[timbs4339]

God someone really needs to update those TLS profiles.