UT ($$) vs. WashU ($$$$) Forum

[allentx]

I had pretty much decided on UT but today WashU sent me an email upping my full scholarship to include an $8k/year stipend.

UT has offered me 18k/year (in state) + 3k/year in grants bringing tuition to about 12k/year.

I want to work in Texas, but I am also very debt averse as I am financing everything on my own. I realize I would probably need to do big law to help pay off debt if I stay at UT, but I don't know if WashU could get me back to Texas. I just sent UT an email with the new offer to see if they can bump me up some, but WashU's offer expires on Monday. Would I be a fool to take out much more debt to stay at UT?

[BasilHallward]

That living stipend makes things interesting. You shouldn't have too many issues paying that debt down at UT, but if you're really debt averse, then WashU makes sense. You really cannot go wrong here. Tough one.

[BasilHallward]

It will be tough to push UT with WashU's offer because UT gave you a pretty damn good offer for an in-state resident. Maybe they push it up though.

[Traynor Brah]

For a texas resident who wants to practice in Texas, UT is worth a lot more money that WUSTL. What does the price difference end up at? Like 60k? I would wager that UT is worth that difference for someone in your position, over the long run, but obviously you aren't in a bad position with that WUSTL offer.

[BigZuck]

How much debt will you be in at each?

What kind of lawyer do you want to be when you grow up?

[allentx]

How much debt will you be in at each?

What kind of lawyer do you want to be when you grow up?

I am estimating it would be close to 100k at UT and ~30k at WashU.

I'm not entirely sure what I want to do yet. Probably aiming for big law to start though

[BigZuck]

I'd retake and aim higher if big law is the goal. It's iffy at these two schools, especially WUSTL

Romothesavior has talked about a few of his classmates finding jobs in Dallas with relative ease. Don't know what kind of jobs though.

Hopefully Sublime will see this bat signal and chime in if he knows anything about WUSTL in Texas

I don't think 100K is an unjustifiable debt load for UT (although it's probably just about my limit). The issue though is big law still isn't a likely outcome, whereas it would be at pretty much any T14.

[allentx]

I'd retake and aim higher if big law is the goal. It's iffy at these two schools, especially WUSTL

Romothesavior has talked about a few of his classmates finding jobs in Dallas with relative ease. Don't know what kind of jobs though.

Hopefully Sublime will see this bat signal and chime in if he knows anything about WUSTL in Texas

I don't think 100K is an unjustifiable debt load for UT (although it's probably just about my limit). The issue though is big law still isn't a likely outcome, whereas it would be at pretty much any T14.

I'm not really interested in retaking. Big law isn't necessarily the goal, it's just an option I am pursuing. If I do well enough to get it, great. If not, then I'll find some other firm job hopefully.

Ultimately, I'd like to end up in Dallas, so I am interested to see if anyone knows of WashU placing well there.

[BasilHallward]

UT will place better in Dallas than WashU. You have to ask yourself how badly you want to go after BigLaw. With a very manageable debt load out of WashU, you can wait tables and pay that back. But, these aren't the reasons that people go to law school. I know of a few WashU grads that work here in Dallas (I'm from Dallas). I think for you, and correct me if I'm wrong, this really comes down to your short-term debt landscape over the next 5-10 years and your aversion to it. My instincts say that over the long haul you will better served at UT, but hell there are many exceptions to counter my shitty 0L advice.

[BasilHallward]

Extrapolating form your username, I am assuming that you are from the Dallas area, and it sounds like you like Dallas. SMU should have given you a full scholly/stipend and with this could you keep cost of living low by staying home/with significant other etc??

[starry eyed]

Texas at that price seems like a no brainer to me.

[allentx]

I didn't even apply to SMU. I'm not quite ready to be back in Dallas yet.

Thanks for all the advice. Hoping to hear back from UT tomorrow or Friday

[cannibal ox]

Doesn't look like SMU is in the business of giving out much money this year. I applied to SMU last year above both medians and got less than a half scholarship, and if I recall, their $35k/year or above scholarships came with some not-so-friendly stipulations.

WUSTL has an interview program in Dallas, but I'm not a WUSTL student so all I know about it is the sunshine and roses that the WUSTL CSO told me when I contacted them regarding info on the Dallas program. There's enough WUSTLers on TLS that hopefully you'll get some anecdotes, but I wouldn't count on getting biglaw in Texas from WUSTL.

[eriedoctrine]

WUSTL places well in Texas who those that want to return there, but UT is simply king.

[cannibal ox]

WUSTL places well in Texas who those that want to return there, but UT is simply king.

As long as you consider 5 to 6% placing "well," not to mention those might not be full-time or long-term jobs.

[eriedoctrine]

WUSTL places well in Texas who those that want to return there, but UT is simply king.

As long as you consider 5 to 6% placing "well," not to mention those might not be full-time or long-term jobs.

About 10% of students at WUSTL are from Texas.
Those that seek to return successfully do so at biglaw firms in Texas.
The rest target Chicago, NYC, and DC as options.

[Traynor Brah]

WUSTL places well in Texas who those that want to return there, but UT is simply king.

As long as you consider 5 to 6% placing "well," not to mention those might not be full-time or long-term jobs.

About 10% of students at WUSTL are from Texas.
Those that seek to return successfully do so at biglaw firms in Texas.
The rest target Chicago, NYC, and DC as options.

Dude. 30% of WUSTL grads get biglaw. Stop talking like this.

If you inserted into each of these sentences "those with top quarter grades" then it wouldn't sounds silly.

OP: Do not go to WUSTL thinking you'll comfortably get TX biglaw.

[BigZuck]

Yeah TX+big law makes WUSTL a non-starter I think

UT+TX big law is ok, but there are better options

Like I said, I think 100K for UT is defensible. My only concern is the Dallas thing. What do you mean by "Not ready to be in Dallas yet"? When will you be ready? If not in 3 years then I just can't recommend UT.

[allentx]

Oh I will absolutely be ready to live in Dallas in 3 years. I just don't want to be there for law school with my parents so close and constantly pestering me to attend things for their work. Just another unneeded distraction

[Username123]

If you're getting a stipend of 8k per year, WUSTL should not put you 30k into debt. 8k can EASILY cover your rent for the year and potentially cover some other expenses as well - food, gas, etc. My gf pays $650 a month for a 1,300 sq. ft apartment next to Tower Grove park and in a decent area. She scored with that much sq footage, but there are a ton of places around campus and within a 10-15 drive that are ~750 sq ft and ~$500 a month. A bunch of her friends, who attend WUSTL for grad school, pay about $500 a month in rent. Your yearly expenses out of pocket can easily remain 6k, which puts your debt likely around 20k. Thought I'd clarify that for you.

[BasilHallward]

If you're getting a stipend of 8k per year, WUSTL should not put you 30k into debt. 8k can EASILY cover your rent for the year and potentially cover some other expenses as well - food, gas, etc. My gf pays $650 a month for a 1,300 sq. ft apartment next to Tower Grove park and in a decent area. She scored with that much sq footage, but there are a ton of places around campus and within a 10-15 drive that are ~750 sq ft and ~$500 a month. A bunch of her friends, who attend WUSTL for grad school, pay about $500 a month in rent. Your yearly expenses out of pocket can easily remain 6k, which puts your debt likely around 20k. Thought I'd clarify that for you.

Food is not cheap. I don't know if 14k a year is easy to live off of.

[Username123]

If you're getting a stipend of 8k per year, WUSTL should not put you 30k into debt. 8k can EASILY cover your rent for the year and potentially cover some other expenses as well - food, gas, etc. My gf pays $650 a month for a 1,300 sq. ft apartment next to Tower Grove park and in a decent area. She scored with that much sq footage, but there are a ton of places around campus and within a 10-15 drive that are ~750 sq ft and ~$500 a month. A bunch of her friends, who attend WUSTL for grad school, pay about $500 a month in rent. Your yearly expenses out of pocket can easily remain 6k, which puts your debt likely around 20k. Thought I'd clarify that for you.

Food is not cheap. I don't know if 14k a year is easy to live off of.

When you can manage to spend only $5000 - $5500 a school year in rent, 14k is easy to live off of.

[yankees12345!]

How does in-state plus $3k per year in grants leave you with $12k per year at UT?

In state brings the tuition down to $33k, minus another $3k brings the tuition down to $30k. Plus living expenses puts you close to $50k per year out of pocket at UT. Making your total expenses closer to $150k.

With that math, Wash U looks like the far better option, imo. Unless i missed something on the financials...

[Traynor Brah]

How does in-state plus $3k per year in grants leave you with $12k per year at UT?

In state brings the tuition down to $33k, minus another $3k brings the tuition down to $30k. Plus living expenses puts you close to $50k per year out of pocket at UT. Making your total expenses closer to $150k.

With that math, Wash U looks like the far better option, imo. Unless i missed something on the financials...

Correct. He is already in-state, so 33K minus 21K - 12K per year.

I think you would regret not going to UT, OP.

[BasilHallward]

If you're getting a stipend of 8k per year, WUSTL should not put you 30k into debt. 8k can EASILY cover your rent for the year and potentially cover some other expenses as well - food, gas, etc. My gf pays $650 a month for a 1,300 sq. ft apartment next to Tower Grove park and in a decent area. She scored with that much sq footage, but there are a ton of places around campus and within a 10-15 drive that are ~750 sq ft and ~$500 a month. A bunch of her friends, who attend WUSTL for grad school, pay about $500 a month in rent. Your yearly expenses out of pocket can easily remain 6k, which puts your debt likely around 20k. Thought I'd clarify that for you.

Food is not cheap. I don't know if 14k a year is easy to live off of.

When you can manage to spend only $5000 - $5500 a school year in rent, 14k is easy to live off of.

Health insurance will put you close to another $2000 a year; Books and supplies cost another $2-3k; Food and personal expenses are easily 5-6k a year; transportation $$(depends on school and location); and often times full tuition schollys do not include university fees which can be another 1.5-4k a year, depending on the school. Expenses are everywhere. When you are considering debt-financing it is important to be very liberal with expense expectations.