Berk vs. Cornell (and Michigan? Chi?) *Poll Added Forum

[sheishkabob]

PLEASE DON'T QUOTE!!

Alright, I had made a choosing thread a while ago, but now I have more complete scholly figures.

Choices are:

Berkeley (with only need-based aid of ~24k, likely be renewed for 2L but substantially reduced for 3L...added in to COA my likely earnings with a 2L summer associate position, so significantly reduced COL loans 3L year): Total COA 190k

Cornell (126k scholarship): 130k

Michigan (102k scholarship): Total COA 150k

Chi (45k scholarship): Total COA 210k

Goals: Southern CA Big Law. Want to minimize the chances of NYC Big Law while also having it be affordable...would I have to be top 3rd of Cornell or Michigan to get CA Big Law? Or could I possibly accomplish that around Median? Does Michigan=Cornell in terms of those chances/risk? I'm a So Cal native (my entire life), so I definitely have ties.

I love, love, love Berkeley, but it seems expensive when they gave me no merit aid whatsoever, and my matching app was denied. Haven't visited Cornell or Mich, won't have time to before deposits are due. Went to Chicago ASW, LOVED it as well. I want the city life...but neither Cornell nor Michigan offers that, so preference between them in regards to where I would want to live would be a wash anyways. Although, Michigan's slip kind of scares me + not liking their class size, so I think I would pick Cornell>Mich because of that (correct me if this would be unwise). Willing to suck it up for 3 years.

166 3.9x non-urm.

HELP

Edit: some edits jah

Edit 2: Michigan scholarship does cancel out need-based aid, my bad!

Edit 23847: Updated Chicago offer/COA figures

[universityof]

I don't think that's a bad price to pay for Berkeley with that goal

[cron1834]

Woah those are some big scholarships at Cornell and Mich for a non-Urm 166 ... are we missing something?

[sheishkabob]

Glad to hear Berk is still in play with these figures. And the Michigan scholly is the product of a negotiation (originally much lower) and the Cornell...idk. I think they want high gpa's this year.

[breadcarp]

In a similar boat, but I have half the money from Berkeley and a bit more from Cornell. I did my undergrad at Cornell and its a nice enough place, but I am seriously interested in the bay area, and I may end up pulling a yolo move.

Good luck on your decision!

[Blue0613]

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[californiauser]

I wouldn't pay $30k+ more for Berkeley over Michigan. They're peers and if you already have ties, you'll still need to be median or better from either to have a decent shot at SoCal big law.

[iVi]

How'd you manage to get need-based aid from UMich with such a hefty scholarship? I was under the impression that a sizeable scholarship offer made one ineligible for need-based consideration. Seems odd.

[HP5450]

Median at Michigan definitely can get SoCal big law. Below median can too, but in that case it would depend on your background and finding a firm that's a fit. I expect Cornell send far smaller groups to California.

[jbagelboy]

I don't think it's crazy to go to Berkeley for $60k more than Cornell and Michigan for CA big law when you also prefer the school and urban atmosphere on a personal level

[sheishkabob]

Thanks for the replies. Blue's comment definitely scares me given the fact that I can't/wont be able to visit Cornell and get a feel for the atmosphere....although I'm not sure how much quality of life is actually worth (60k more?). As for the Mich offer, the need based aid was given before the hefty scholarship increase, so that may be why

[drumstickies]

easily berkeley. and 24k in merit aid is pretty generous by berkeley standards. it'll likely be renewed for your 2L and substantially lowered for 3L (if you do biglaw). i chose berkeley over more expensive options because of its CA placement

[sesto elemento]

You will lose about 13.7k in need based aid if you get a 2L SA.
So you're looking at 11.3k in need based aid going into your 3rd year.
So you're Berkeley award is roughly 60k over 3 years.

[Jakobe]

If it makes you feel better I thought the vibes at Cornell were pretty positive when I went to the ASW in March, not that much different than the vibes I got at Chicago.

[BiglawAssociate]

If it makes you feel better I thought the vibes at Cornell were pretty positive when I went to the ASW in March, not that much different than the vibes I got at Chicago.

The problem with Cornell is that it's in Ithaca - worst location out of the T-14. There is literally jack shit to do there and it's like 30k big (which is about as big some schools). I think that's why a lot of people write it off - because the location sucks big balls, worse than any other "college towns" (it's doesn't even count as a college town IMO because Ithaca's smaller than many universities). The stats pretty much agree with me (in that many people turn it down) since Cornell is the easiest T-14 to get into yet still has a really tiny class.

While Berkeley is the best for CA, I think Berkeley is way too expensive here. Also, in case you didn't know, you won't be able to use your 2L summer associate money (if you get a 2L summer associateship) to pay for cost of living because your firm is going to keep a bunch of it for tax purposes and you have to get the money refunded to you during/after 3L year.

[Jakobe]

Oh I agree with you completely, I don't think I would even believe someone if they told me they would rather live in Ithaca than Berkeley. However, when he was talking about vibes, I assumed he meant the atmosphere of the students at the school which I honestly found to be pretty lively and fun.

[sheishkabob]

*she And I didn't know about the tax holding, so that changes the amount slightly. Thank you sesto for the need-based aid calculation! When it's put plainly like that, I feel like 60k is a good amount from stingy Berkeley? And as for living in Ithaca, I'm willing to put up with living in not fun place for three years (all though it will suck compared to LA), my main concern are the vibes of the student body. The Berkeley bunch were really lively and outgoing, and it seemed like they truly enjoyed their time during law school...even 1L year. I've heard the opposite regarding the Cornell crew, which I'm sure might be overstated, but I can't visit so I'm conglomerating the observations of people who've visited

[Lavitz]

The Berkeley bunch were really lively and outgoing, and it seemed like they truly enjoyed their time during law school...even 1L year. I've heard the opposite regarding the Cornell crew

Whoever says this is objectively wrong. 1L at Cornell was extremely fun, unless you tried to be miserable and make no friends. This past winter really sucked though, but again, that has nothing to do with the type of students and everything to do with what to do while in Ithaca.

With that said, I'd probably go with Berk because you want SoCal, it will be easier from Berk, you can't even visit Cornell before enrolling, and the possibility of saving 60K isn't great enough to justify enrolling at a school across the country that you haven't visited where you'll probably have less fun for a lower chance at accomplishing your goals.

[sheishkabob]

Interesting perspective, thanks Lavitz. Also edited the Michigan aid, turns out I was wrong and need-based aid cancels out with an increased scholly offer. My bad

[cron1834]

Sorry, but I have to ask this again: how does one get into Chicago and get 6-figures at Mich and Cornell with a non-URM 166?

[jbagelboy]

Sorry, but I have to ask this again: how does one get into Chicago and get 6-figures at Mich and Cornell with a non-URM 166?

Its 2015

People stopped applying to law school

(Also the 3.9+ had something to do with it)

[cron1834]

I know, I know ... but last cycle this would have been WL at 2/3 of these schools, and now it's 6-figures plus Chicago admit? That's crazy. Chicago is still like 170/3.9 median.

[Pragmatic Gun]

I know, I know ... but last cycle this would have been WL at 2/3 of these schools, and now it's 6-figures plus Chicago admit? That's crazy. Chicago is still like 170/3.9 median.

They need asses in their fancy classrooms, bro.

Also what bad vibes? ASW was awesome. The people were friendly and laid back. Drinks cheap.

[sheishkabob]

Well...this poll is certainly confusing

[Pragmatic Gun]

Cornell puts people in Cali. A large portion of the Cali students are going back to Cali. What is confusing about that?