Darrow v Harvard Forum

Asdfqwerzxcv · Post by **Asdfqwerzxcv** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:55 am

DO NOT QUOTE PLEASE!

I'm trying to decide between Harvard and Michigan. The cost at Michigan would be completely free (Darrow with living stipend and savings) where Harvard would be minimal if any financial assistance so I'm calculating from sticker.

My goals are to come out of law school and clerk for a year. After that possibly DoJ, become a prosecutor, or other public interest. I currently don't have any desire for Big Law but once I start school I'm flexible to figuring out what I truly want to do. Toured Ann Arbor about a month ago and absolutely loved it, but haven't been able to make it up to Boston.

As far as where I want to go geographically, I'm pretty open. I don't want NYC or West coast, I'd much prefer DC, Chicago, or other East Coast locations, but for my clerk year I'd go anywhere.

I have a lot of family who live in and around Ann Arbor so it would be nice to be close to them. I worked far away from close friends/family so I'm adverse to doing that again.

FloridaCoastalorbust · Post by **FloridaCoastalorbust** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:44 am

do u care about prestige and do u care about debt

starry eyed · Post by **starry eyed** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:54 am

he cares about prestige given his goals..

it's hard to justify taking out that much $$$ for a quarters chance at getting a fed clerkship at H

how ok are you with biglaw as a fallback?

bc just like biglaw isn't guaranteed from a school like tulane, Fed clerkships aren't guaranteed from H.

Michigan leaves more doors open in the long run bc of the much lower debt IMO... plus a fed clerkship is very doable from there.

CanadianWolf · Post by **CanadianWolf** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:03 am

Your career aspirations say Harvard, but common-sense & wisdom mandate Michigan.

starry eyed · Post by **starry eyed** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:06 am

OP, if you go to H, there is a high high chance you will end up in biglaw AND be paying 3k a month for 10 years. You would have more geographic flexibility though.

CanadianWolf · Post by **CanadianWolf** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:16 am

Michigan is offering you the chance to enjoy a nearly stress-free law school experience; this can result in better grades, law review & getting published. It also means that you will have the financial freedom to select whichever career path is of most interest to you.
Nevertheless, either choice will leave you with regrets, but only one choice will leave you with massive debt.

Asdfqwerzxcv · Post by **Asdfqwerzxcv** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:21 am

Don't care about prestige and I'm okay as big law as fall back but probably as a last resort. I've done a lot of work in the pub interest sector, although I fully admit that the 160k is tempting lol. Clerking though is very important to me so there is a chance this is doable at Michigan? It's my big hold-up.

I really appreciate everyone's help, I'm heavily leaning Michigan I just needed to hear others input! Thanks!

qwertyTLS · Post by **qwertyTLS** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:23 am

what about other T14 that gave money (assuming you applied)? feel like that might be something to look at

Clemenceau · Post by **Clemenceau** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:24 am

Got anything from uchi? That seems like a nice medium based on your goals

I'd lean darrow personally, but not by a ton

Other25BeforeYou · Post by **Other25BeforeYou** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:08 am

Can I ask why you want to clerk?

kaiser · Post by **kaiser** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:21 am

I would take the Darrow in a heartbeat and never look back. You will have a degree from an elite school and incredible career flexibility and freedom that few others will have. You will thank your lucky stars for this very soon after you begin practice, when you can watch your bank account grow from the very beginning. You would be setting yourself up for the best trajectory possible.

AreJay711 · Post by **AreJay711** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:28 am

CanadianWolf wrote:Michigan is offering you the chance to enjoy a nearly stress-free law school experience; this can result in better grades, law review & getting published. It also means that you will have the financial freedom to select whichever career path is of most interest to you.

I know a girl who got a Darrow. She gave only very limited fucks about law school, got a biglaw job, and now has a killer apartment with that extra $3k a month in her pocket.

I'm clerking. It's fun, but fuck being broke.

Hand · Post by **Hand** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:29 am

kaiser wrote:I would take the Darrow in a heartbeat and never look back.

Just take the money already. You don't aspire to big law. You have family in the area. Chances at a one-year gig are really no reason to take out $200k in debt. Come on.

BigZuck · Post by **BigZuck** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:47 am

I know you wrote all that but lets be honest with ourselves: you're gonna do big law right? Probably in NYC? That 160K is gonna be too good to pass up when OCI rolls around, right lol? Like, be honest.

Just do Michigan.

Other25BeforeYou · Post by **Other25BeforeYou** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:52 am

Hand wrote:
kaiser wrote:I would take the Darrow in a heartbeat and never look back.
Just take the money already. You don't aspire to big law. You have family in the area. Chances at a one-year gig are really no reason to take out $200k in debt. Come on.

And it's a one-year gig that you might not be interested in once you get there. You say you're not interested in prestige (which is, in my experience, a motivating factor for a lot of people who want to clerk), and your career goals aren't the kind that require a clerkship (like working in academia or at an elite lit boutique). It might be a plus factor in finding your first post-clerkship job, but a better but still not great chance at a plus factor hardly seems worth that much money.

bruinfan10 · Post by **bruinfan10** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:48 pm

AreJay711 wrote:I'm clerking. It's fun, but fuck being broke.

180

abl · Post by **abl** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:04 pm

Pretty sure clerking helps get an AUSA position...

I think it's a tough call, personally. It depends on how debt averse you are vs. how much weight you put on maximizing your career goals. Also factor in personal satisfaction (family close at Michigan are a plus for Michigan -- and how much marginal utility are you going to derive from the in-school opportunities presented by Harvard but not Michigan?). Based on what you said, it sounds like Michigan is the better fit.

To answer your question, getting a clerkship is a real possibility out of either Michigan or Harvard. Harvard allows you a much wider margin of error. How much is that worth to you?

kaiser · Post by **kaiser** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:21 pm

abl wrote:Pretty sure clerking helps get an AUSA position...

I think it's a tough call, personally. It depends on how debt averse you are vs. how much weight you put on maximizing your career goals. Also factor in personal satisfaction (family close at Michigan are a plus for Michigan -- and how much marginal utility are you going to derive from the in-school opportunities presented by Harvard but not Michigan?). Based on what you said, it sounds like Michigan is the better fit.

To answer your question, getting a clerkship is a real possibility out of either Michigan or Harvard. Harvard allows you a much wider margin of error. How much is that worth to you?

250,000 dollars, and you think its a tough call? Really?

abl · Post by **abl** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:26 pm

kaiser wrote:
abl wrote:Pretty sure clerking helps get an AUSA position...

I think it's a tough call, personally. It depends on how debt averse you are vs. how much weight you put on maximizing your career goals. Also factor in personal satisfaction (family close at Michigan are a plus for Michigan -- and how much marginal utility are you going to derive from the in-school opportunities presented by Harvard but not Michigan?). Based on what you said, it sounds like Michigan is the better fit.

To answer your question, getting a clerkship is a real possibility out of either Michigan or Harvard. Harvard allows you a much wider margin of error. How much is that worth to you?
250,000 dollars, and you think its a tough call? Really?

Personally, I'd have happily gone into that much debt if given this choice -- but then again, my goals are different from the OP's.

michlaw · Post by **michlaw** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:30 pm

Harvard. Because you can.

Named scholarship recipients at some top schools get additional jimmies on their ice cream cones which can be a big plus (mentors, better access to top Profs, etc.). Not at Michigan. You will need to be top 15% in order to get what the top 60% get from Harvard. If you feel you can do that go to Ann Arbor if not then Cambridge all the way.

starry eyed · Post by **starry eyed** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:37 pm

all tls can really do is say if you spend this much money, you have this much % higher chance at better outcome...

but it's on you to determine like abi said how important clerking is to you; i'm not too convinced that you are that dedicated and don't think you'll be that dissappointed with biglaw. That's why i second Michigan.

FloridaCoastalorbust · Post by **FloridaCoastalorbust** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:52 pm

michlaw wrote:Harvard. Because you can.

Named scholarship recipients at some top schools get additional jimmies on their ice cream cones which can be a big plus (mentors, better access to top Profs, etc.). Not at Michigan. You will need to be top 15% in order to get what the top 60% get from Harvard. If you feel you can do that go to Ann Arbor if not then Cambridge all the way.

what are jimmies and where can they be purchased?

mvp99 · Post by **mvp99** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:02 pm

how is a slight increase in prestige worth 300k?

Hand · Post by **Hand** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:12 pm

michlaw wrote:OCTOBER TERM 2015 SUPREME COURT CLERK HIRES (as of April 14, 2015)

Michigan -1

Harvard - 9

Depends on what you want to do.

My understanding is once you are a Darrow no one knows. You don't tell anyone and the Prof's don't know. All merit based from then on and that seems fair. Few list it on their resume.

Other schools do it differently.

I think that basing the decision to take out 250k in loans on whether you have a 1.53% or a 0.26% chance of landing a one-year gig is not in any way a sign of being delusional, no sir, not at all

ETA: haha don't think you can just delete that

michlaw · Post by **michlaw** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:13 pm

Ah... maybe you are right. Go Blue.

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