Harvard v CCN ($) v Cornell ($$$) Forum

debtdebacle · Post by **debtdebacle** » Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:26 pm

Hoping for some insight on the value of HLS versus CCN with some aid and Cornell with significant aid. Thanks for any advice.

-The schools you are considering

Harvard, Columbia, NYU, Chicago, Cornell. In at Penn, but no merit aid as of yet. WL at UVA and Michigan.

-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each (using lawschool22 spreadsheet).

Harvard (small financial aid grant) - 266k
Columbia ($37.5k grant) - 249k
UChi ($60k grant) - 232k
NYU ($62.5k grant) - 223k
Cornell ($150k grant) - 103k

-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings

Loans. HCCN debt numbers are certainly scary, but I have spent time working at a NYC biglaw firm so have an idea of its potential lifestyle downsides (esp. in contrast to my experience at current gov. job) and understand that I would be looking at 5+ years of biglaw to pay off HCCN debt.

-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)

Family close to Boston, but have also have ties to NYC and DC. SO lives in NYC. Have been to Ithaca, least desirable location out of available options.

-Your general career goals

Business law. Have work experience in antitrust, both at biglaw firm and in gov. Interested but not committed to pursuing career in this field, either biglaw->gov or gov->biglaw route, if possible. Also interested in exploring transactional law.

-Your LSAT/GPA numbers

170ish, 3.9ish

-How many times you have taken the LSAT

Twice

transferror · Post by **transferror** » Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:42 pm

That's a good price for Cornell and I don't think any of HCCN is worth 100k+ more if your initial goal is NYC biglaw. Take the $$ and run.

moonman157 · Post by **moonman157** » Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:47 pm

I guess this comes down to whether or not being with your SO/not being in Ithaca is worth $130K to you

CanadianWolf · Post by **CanadianWolf** » Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:15 pm

Negotiate or, as is, Cornell due to cost & your willingness to go for NYC biglaw.

smiles123 · Post by **smiles123** » Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:22 pm

[quote="transferror"]That's a good price for Cornell and I don't think any of HCCN is worth 100k+ more if your initial goal is NYC biglaw. Take the $$ and run.[/quote]

^This. All are good options for your goals imo, congrats.

WeeBey · Post by **WeeBey** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:52 am

I think you also gotta factor in the psychological effect of your debt load.

With a 50k/year scholly from Cornell, saving a few bucks here and there makes a big difference so you'll have more of an incentive to do so than when your a quarter of a million in the whole. You can also live pretty cheap in Ithaca, and with a 2L SA, youll be able to cover your entire 3L tuition so you can realistically reduce your debt at graduation to about 75-80k.

And being only 80k in debt will make biglaw a lot less miserable. You wont have a quarter of a million hanging over your head, and you can afford to live in a nicer apartment with less of a commute and enjoy more of your salary.

debtdebacle · Post by **debtdebacle** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:20 am

Thanks for the replies.

Does Harvard (or CCN) provide any tangible benefits over Cornell in government (DOJ/FTC) hiring either directly out of school or after a stint in biglaw?

Also, if I were to target firms well known for their antitrust practices (Chambers Band 1), should the fact that these firms appear to hire more students/deeper into the class out of HCCN make any difference in my decision making? I understand that for generic biglaw Cornell places very well (especially in NYC), but I am wondering if having a more specified area of interest changes the calculus at all.

BruceWayne · Post by **BruceWayne** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:29 am

debtdebacle wrote:Thanks for the replies.

Does Harvard (or CCN) provide any tangible benefits over Cornell in government (DOJ/FTC) hiring either directly out of school or after a stint in biglaw?

Also, if I were to target firms well known for their antitrust practices (Chambers Band 1), should the fact that these firms appear to hire more students/deeper into the class out of HCCN make any difference in my decision making? I understand that for generic biglaw Cornell places very well (especially in NYC), but I am wondering if having a more specified area of interest changes the calculus at all.

CCN no. But Harvard will make a bit difference. Because of that and the close debt numbers between H and CCN I'd eliminate CCN. This is between HLS and Cornell.

Your interest in DOJ/FTC/Antitrust is relevant in the sense that Harvard gives you a much better chance (really the best chance essentially of any school excluding Yale) but even coming from Harvard that's a tough field to get into because there just aren't that many jobs (mainly the places that you mentioned). You're going to have to decide what's more important to you: the flexibility of low debt or going for your dream job. Honestly it's not an easy choice.

Wait I just noticed that Cornell will still cost you $103K. With that being the scenario I actually would take on the loans at Harvard. That is a ton of money but HLS has a good LRAP and Harvard will make a big difference in terms of getting a job (especially your desired jobs). You could end up unemployed from Cornell. I don't really see $100K+ in loans with no job from Cornell as being better than $260K in loans from HLS with a big firm job or possibly your desired govt job.

CanadianWolf · Post by **CanadianWolf** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:30 am

Harvard is the best among your options if these are your career goals.

ChemEng1642 · Post by **ChemEng1642** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:16 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
debtdebacle wrote:Thanks for the replies.

Does Harvard (or CCN) provide any tangible benefits over Cornell in government (DOJ/FTC) hiring either directly out of school or after a stint in biglaw?

Also, if I were to target firms well known for their antitrust practices (Chambers Band 1), should the fact that these firms appear to hire more students/deeper into the class out of HCCN make any difference in my decision making? I understand that for generic biglaw Cornell places very well (especially in NYC), but I am wondering if having a more specified area of interest changes the calculus at all.
CCN no. But Harvard will make a bit difference. Because of that and the close debt numbers between H and CCN I'd eliminate CCN. This is between HLS and Cornell.

CN should at least be a consideration because SO lives in NYC and long distance might not be doable for you for 3 years. Would you live with your SO if in NYC? I would talk to your SO first about long distance as this might limit your options.

omegaweapon · Post by **omegaweapon** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:04 pm

If you want NYC biglaw and are comfortable being there for a while, Cornell seems like a no-brainer. Harvard definitely seems to have advantages for FedGov, but I don't think that will matter much if you plan to do a five year biglaw stint first. It'll depend on how well you do there.

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:51 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Harvard is the best among your options if these are your career goals.

I agree here.

Unrelated, can someone provide the link to the lawschool22 spreadsheet?

Thanks!

debtdebacle · Post by **debtdebacle** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:47 pm

Link:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1AHcF ... sp=sharing

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:12 pm

debtdebacle wrote:Link:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1AHcF ... sp=sharing

Thanks

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