BU (30k/yr) vs ASU (full ride) vs WashU (25k/yr) vs Canada Forum

[Iwanttolawschool]

Hello,

Important info outside the standard is that I am a Canadian, therefore don't qualify for Federal loans and cant get federal clerkships. Also keep in mind that Canadian biglaw lawyers start out around 90-100k CAN dollar. Have to pay significantly more tax, but Cost of living is higher.

-The schools you are considering
BU 30k per scholly
ASU full ride
WashU 25k per year
UBC in Canada (tuition is only 12k a year there) (*In Canadian Dollars)

-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships.
BU - 140k Total COA
ASU - 60k Total COA
WashU - 172k Total COA
UBC - 55k Total COA (in USD, I converted it for comparisons)

-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
A mix of my personal savings and loans. I do not qualify for Stafford Loans, so if in America, it would be private loans.

-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
From Vancouver (UBC) have ties to there and Phoenix. Think I would rather work in the States due to more opportunities for lawyers, but not totally opposed to staying in Canada.

-Your general career goals
Corporate Biglaw for as long as I can stand it, then potentially lateral in-house or take a non-law business job.

-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
163/3.9

-How many times you have taken the LSAT
Took it 3 times. Took the first time cold before I learned of TLS. Then disappointed on the 3rd take.

[BigZuck]

I don't know anything about Canada, their currency, their law schools, or the legal market there.

I don't think the American schools make sense with those goals and at those costs. Isn't also hard for an international to get hired on at an American firm because of visa sponsoring or something like that? Again, outside of my element there.

Sounds like maybe you want to do business and not law, why not maybe go work for a company instead and forgo law school altogether?

[WeeBey]

With a 163, Stay in Canada.

UBC is a top school and biglaw usually highers out of the top 1/3 at most canadian schools expect UofT where its top 1/2. But even if you dont get biglaw, there are plenty other legal jobs availble that could finance your debt. This isnt the case in America. If you want to go to school in the states, sit out this cycle, RETAKE, score a 170+ and go to a t14 with a large scholarship.

[twenty]

UBC seems like the overwhelmingly clear winner here.

[The Dark Shepard]

Seeing numbers like that for Canada law school really makes me hate America

[Iwanttolawschool]

The tuition for all Canadian schools aren't as low. UofT for example is 30k. But in Canadian dollars, which right now is a big deal.

[timbs4339]

More opportunities in the States for law, but more lawyers and law students to go along with it. Canadian schools actually do a good job of keeping class sizes relatively modest. Stay in the Frozen North.

[lumpkin]

lol shake down wash u noone wants to go to a town with 3 bars plus they're rich

[CanadianWolf]

Vancouver & Victoria are two of the most beautiful locations in North America. Phoenix offers a wonderful contrast to the Pacific Northwest. In my opinion, your top two are BC & ASU. Does BC offer a dual degree (US & Canadian) program ?

Did you apply to Toronto ? If you want a realistic shot at NYC biglaw, then Toronto should be your choice.

[WeeBey]

The Canadian and US legal hiring are very different. In Canada, its very regional, if you want to work in BC, you pick UBC over UofT any day. The Canadian market isnt as saturated as the US. Being median at UBC is absolutely great. I doubt the same could be said for BU, ASU, and WashU. Plus UBC is dirt cheap. 12k in tuition, and you can knock a couple g's off from bursaries and grants if youre not rich.

Canada doesn't have the same bimodal legal salary distribution as the U.S. and Canadian firms dont rely on the same rate of attrition. And partnership is also a reasonable goal. Even at the biglaw firms 1/6-7 make partner and once you take out those who never intended to, its pretty realisitc. And yea, Vancouver big law usually has billable requirements in the 1600-1700 range where theyll make about 90k as a first year and upto 150k as a 6th year.

Check this out for more about Canadian legal salaries http://www.zsa.ca/salaries/

OP, stay in Canada, unless you retake and get atleast a half scholly at a T13. Better yet, work for this year, get a 168+ and ED NU and get the 150k scholly.

[ub3r]

That post makes me want to do law in Canada, dang

[Iwanttolawschool]

Vancouver & Victoria are two of the most beautiful locations in North America. Phoenix offers a wonderful contrast to the Pacific Northwest. In my opinion, your top two are BC & ASU. Does BC offer a dual degree (US & Canadian) program ?

Did you apply to Toronto ? If you want a realistic shot at NYC biglaw, then Toronto should be your choice.

BC does not offer a Dual program to my knowledge, but ASU does.

I did apply to Toronto, but my lsat was too low for them

[Iwanttolawschool]

The Canadian and US legal hiring are very different. In Canada, its very regional, if you want to work in BC, you pick UBC over UofT any day. The Canadian market isnt as saturated as the US. Being median at UBC is absolutely great. I doubt the same could be said for BU, ASU, and WashU. Plus UBC is dirt cheap. 12k in tuition, and you can knock a couple g's off from bursaries and grants if youre not rich.

Canada doesn't have the same bimodal legal salary distribution as the U.S. and Canadian firms dont rely on the same rate of attrition. And partnership is also a reasonable goal. Even at the biglaw firms 1/6-7 make partner and once you take out those who never intended to, its pretty realisitc. And yea, Vancouver big law usually has billable requirements in the 1600-1700 range where theyll make about 90k as a first year and upto 150k as a 6th year.

Check this out for more about Canadian legal salaries http://www.zsa.ca/salaries/

OP, stay in Canada, unless you retake and get atleast a half scholly at a T13. Better yet, work for this year, get a 168+ and ED NU and get the 150k scholly.

Lots of good points, thank you for this. Just wanted to hear some opinions from more knowledgeable people than myself.

[Informative]

UBC is a good option given your circumstances.