UC Hastings (more $$) vs. UC Irvine (higher ranking) Forum

[BManCal90]

My decision has come down to these two schools. What is contributing to the difficult decision is how great the scholarship offers differ between schools.

UC Hastings is offering me $25k/year out of $47,634/year tuition (I am in the process of negotiating a higher award and Admissions has hinted that they may be able to secure more funds).

UC Irvine is offering me $10k/year out of a $47,800 annual tuition (their Admissions department responded saying that they cannot offer me anything more at the moment, though they'd be "happy" to reevaluate this at the end of April).

Both schools have their advantages and drawbacks.
- UCI is ranked higher, but has only 200 alumni, compared to 20,000 for Hastings.
- UCI would provide an opportunity to thrive among a smaller class and to leave a mark on the young campus
- Hastings is a well-respected, 100+ year old institution
- Hastings would offer much greater networking opportunities (being in SF) than Irvine would
- Irvine is closer to the LA legal market, where I'd ultimately like to end up
- Irvine's post-graduation employment numbers are higher than Hastings'
- Both schools have bar passage rates below 80%, but UCI's is a bit higher

Any recommendations?

[03152016]

In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:

-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT

[The Dark Shepard]

No.

[BManCal90]

Sorry, forgot to share this info.

-The schools you are considering: UC Hastings and UC Irvine. (Currently on the waitlist at UC Davis)
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. From LST, annual COA: Hastings: $71,948; Irvine: $70,103
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings Financing with loans. A fraction of 1L living expenses will be from savings.
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any) I'm from California. I want to stay in the state; in Los Angeles ultimately.
-Your general career goals Private sector.
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers 160/3.49
-How many times you have taken the LSAT Twice.

[20170322]

No.

[03152016]

what do you envision in terms of private sector
working in a large firm?
small firm work at a modest salary ($40-60k)?
hanging up a shingle?
something other than practicing law?

[BManCal90]

what do you envision in terms of private sector
working in a large firm?
small firm work at a modest salary ($40-60k)?
hanging up a shingle?
something other than practicing law?

I'd envision either a large firm, in-house, or consulting. I could not afford a modest salary, so I'm looking for something a bit more. I'm not sure what law I will be practicing either.

P.S. Are the "No."s trolls?

[deadpanic]

Sorry, forgot to share this info.

-The schools you are considering: UC Hastings and UC Irvine. (Currently on the waitlist at UC Davis)
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. From LST, annual COA: Hastings: $71,948; Irvine: $70,103
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings Financing with loans. A fraction of 1L living expenses will be from savings.
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any) I'm from California. I want to stay in the state; in Los Angeles ultimately.
-Your general career goals Private sector.
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers 160/3.49
-How many times you have taken the LSAT Twice.

That is the annual cost of attendance? So, at least $215,844.00 in debt for Hastings? That would be a devastating amount of debt for awful job prospects. Irvine is not good at that price, either, especially if you want to work in a big firm, in-house, or consulting; those career goals are not compatible with the above schools.

[03152016]

what do you envision in terms of private sector
working in a large firm?
small firm work at a modest salary ($40-60k)?
hanging up a shingle?
something other than practicing law?

I'd envision either a large firm, in-house, or consulting. I could not afford a modest salary, so I'm looking for something a bit more. I'm not sure what law I will be practicing either.

P.S. Are the "No."s trolls?

these goals are indeed possible from hastings and irvine; you will meet alumni from those schools who have gone on to do these things
the problem is that they are not likely

a school's biglaw+fedclerk % serves as a rough proxy for the school's ability to place grads in the elite job outcomes you mentioned
to give you a frame of reference, at columbia, 78% of the class got one of these outcomes

unfortunately, at hastings, only 15% of the graduating class got one of these outcomes in 2013

even more unfortunately, irvine saw one of the most dramatic drops in biglaw/fedclerk in the entire country
in a single year, they plummeted from 51.8% to 33.4%
new job numbers are due out soon, and most watchers expect another momentous drop
this is a dangerous sign of decline for such a new school, and should be a warning to all potential matriculants

in my opinion, these schools do not match the goals you have described
you may have to face reality and lower your expectations in terms of job quality, or consider alternatives to these two schools

[BManCal90]

As I had mentioned previously, I have been offered $75,000 over the course of 3 years at Hastings, so that would significantly cut down in the amount in loans I would take out.

Furthermore, if I have been able to secure a job that offers 92% of the upper limit to your "modest salary" within 1.5 years of receiving my B.A., I'm sure I can do much better with a J.D.

[LawsRUs]

Brut Do you know when the new emp stats are due out?

OP I would go for that third retake in June. If you aren't ready by then, I would sit out this cycle. This is a really risky investment, also I'm unsure UCI and UCH will get you the type of jobs you want..Also too much money for these schools at the current standing offers, absolutely need to negotiate for every dollar in April. GL OP!

[LawsRUs]

Yea for Hastings, it's in a central location in SF. COL, scary.

[03152016]

Furthermore, if I have been able to secure a job that offers 92% of the upper limit to your "modest salary" within 1.5 years of receiving my B.A., I'm sure I can do much better with a J.D.

sorry, that's not how it works
you're in a whole new dark, foreboding world now







this is the bi-modal salary distribution, source: http://www.nalp.org/salarydistrib
only 10% of 2013 grads got a job at an nlj250 firm (those would be the ones on the right side of that distribution. see that spike?), source: http://abovethelaw.com/careers/2014-law ... -rankings/
it's higher than 10% in the chart likely because of market paying firms outside of the nlj250 and response rate (nalp is working with incomplete data. i believe salary data is self-reported, which would tend to cause a higher response rate among high earners)
if you're not in the $160k bracket, you're going to be in the $40-60k bracket (see above charts)
doesn't matter if you made a good living before law school. the facts are the facts
and the fact is that law schools are pumping so many grads into the market that recent grads are grateful for $50k/year gigs
they're happy that they're not part of the 43% of grads who did not obtain any full time legal job at all, source: http://abovethelaw.com/careers/2014-law ... -rankings/

[03152016]

Brut Do you know when the new emp stats are due out?

within the next month i think

[03152016]

by the way, in case you think you'll land in between $60k and $160k, think again
look at the scale
those salaries above the mean are topping out at 2% of grads, and even the $65k-$80k range tops out at 4%
these are rare jobs. much harder to get "midlaw" than biglaw because there's less room for new associates and less of an established pipeline.

[The Dark Shepard]

P.S. Are the "No."s trolls?

If not wanting you to ruin your future = trolling, yes

[LawsRUs]

I consider Chuckie one of the scariest movies of all time..

But those graphs?

Scarier.

Yikes!!