UNC $$ vs. Wake $$$ vs. others Forum

[Bacon Cheeseburger]

I'm in-state NC and 95% chance will stay here and practice here and etc. In terms of law goals, I'd say they are fairly vague, Big law, public interest, criminal - any of those or the best one securing me the best financial future.

Right now, my offers are at
Wake - full tuition
UNC - 3/4 tuition (I'm in-state so that leaves only about $5K/year)
Notre Dame - 2/3 tuition
William and Mary - little over 2/3 tuition
USC (Southern Cal) - little over 1/2 tuition

I've tried negotiating and failed. Obviously, I figure it's down to Wake or UNC, but figured I'd list them all. Wake's drop in the rankings bothers me as does their dropping bar passage rate and 9-month employment statistics, but IDK. I figure I'll be in the top 1/4 of the class, so I don't think it would hurt me that much.

What say you?

[BigZuck]

If you want NC big law then go to Duke IMO

Why is Wake's ranking or bar passage drop troubling to you?

Why do you figure you'll be in the top 1/4 of your class and why is that cut off meaningful to you?

[humph]

If you're from NC, you know that UNC name recognition carries weight. Wouldn't be a bad option. COL is great. Know plenty of people who attend now and they love it.

[Bacon Cheeseburger]

If you want NC big law then go to Duke IMO

Why is Wake's ranking or bar passage drop troubling to you?

Why do you figure you'll be in the top 1/4 of your class and why is that cut off meaningful to you?

Dinged at Duke. Even if retake is TCR, it's not happening right now. 1/4 is a meaningless distinction other than to say that Wake's employment number for class of 2013 was 58% and based on the drop at USNWR might go down again. Also, my gut just tells me I won't be in the bottom 42%, but obviously there's no guarantees, hence my question.

[Nomo]

I'd say they are fairly vague, Big law, public interest, criminal - any of those or the best one securing me the best financial future.

I don't think you should go to law school with goals that are this vague. In 1995 that would have been fine. But it isn't 1995 anymore. You're looking at regional schools with a pretty small shot at biglaw. You're best bet at getting a legal job is to come in knowing what you want to do and hustling for it from day one (securing internships, externships, and part-time work in that field).

[Nomo]

If you want NC big law then go to Duke IMO

Why is Wake's ranking or bar passage drop troubling to you?

Why do you figure you'll be in the top 1/4 of your class and why is that cut off meaningful to you?

Dinged at Duke. Even if retake is TCR, it's not happening right now. 1/4 is a meaningless distinction other than to say that Wake's employment number for class of 2013 was 58% and based on the drop at USNWR might go down again. Also, my gut just tells me I won't be in the bottom 42%, but obviously there's no guarantees, hence my question.

Just keep in mind that it isn't the bottom 42% that don't get jobs. Plenty of people in the top half, even the top quarter don't have jobs. You need very good grades for biglaw, but after that grades are just one factor. Personal connections are generally a bigger factor in hiring at smaller firms and government than grades.

[BigZuck]

If you want NC big law then go to Duke IMO

Why is Wake's ranking or bar passage drop troubling to you?

Why do you figure you'll be in the top 1/4 of your class and why is that cut off meaningful to you?

Dinged at Duke. Even if retake is TCR, it's not happening right now. 1/4 is a meaningless distinction other than to say that Wake's employment number for class of 2013 was 58% and based on the drop at USNWR might go down again. Also, my gut just tells me I won't be in the bottom 42%, but obviously there's no guarantees, hence my question.

If you want big law then retake and reapply whenever it's convenient for you

Why is bottom 42% meaningful to you? You think employers go down the line, hiring top 1%, then top 2% and so on until they are done and some arbitrary bottom percentage of the class is boned? That's not really how it works, I'm guessing someone barely in the top 25% at Wake is the same boat as someone in the bottom 25%- jobs will happen because of hustle, not grades.

[Bacon Cheeseburger]

If you want NC big law then go to Duke IMO

Why is Wake's ranking or bar passage drop troubling to you?

Why do you figure you'll be in the top 1/4 of your class and why is that cut off meaningful to you?

Dinged at Duke. Even if retake is TCR, it's not happening right now. 1/4 is a meaningless distinction other than to say that Wake's employment number for class of 2013 was 58% and based on the drop at USNWR might go down again. Also, my gut just tells me I won't be in the bottom 42%, but obviously there's no guarantees, hence my question.

Just keep in mind that it isn't the bottom 42% that don't get jobs. Plenty of people in the top half, even the top quarter don't have jobs. You need very good grades for biglaw, but after that grades are just one factor. Personal connections are generally a bigger factor in hiring at smaller firms and government than grades.

If you want NC big law then go to Duke IMO

Why is Wake's ranking or bar passage drop troubling to you?

Why do you figure you'll be in the top 1/4 of your class and why is that cut off meaningful to you?

Dinged at Duke. Even if retake is TCR, it's not happening right now. 1/4 is a meaningless distinction other than to say that Wake's employment number for class of 2013 was 58% and based on the drop at USNWR might go down again. Also, my gut just tells me I won't be in the bottom 42%, but obviously there's no guarantees, hence my question.

If you want big law then retake and reapply whenever it's convenient for you

Why is bottom 42% meaningful to you? You think employers go down the line, hiring top 1%, then top 2% and so on until they are done and some arbitrary bottom percentage of the class is boned? That's not really how it works, I'm guessing someone barely in the top 25% at Wake is the same boat as someone in the bottom 25%- jobs will happen because of hustle, not grades.

Both of your points are well-taken. I'm admittedly a novice at the process; what's the recommended reading on trying to make the most of your law school experience in terms of jobs, interships, OCI, etc? Law School Insider? Getting to Maybe?

If it's a given that I'm not retaking and that I am going this cycle (even if it's not the common TLS wisdom), which is my best offer?

[BigZuck]

If the goal is big law, none of the above. That's not what these schools are for. You'd probably have to be in the top 10% to have a good shot at that, and most likely that won't happen. You have no way of predicting how you will do gradewise.

If you have modest career goals I would go with whatever is cheaper between UNC and Wake. Or if it's close in cost, whatever you prefer. But if you do that make sure you go in with a plan, get ready to hustle, and put big law out of your mind. If you bink great grades then great, but you need to hustle for something more attainable.

[Nomo]

If it's a given that I'm not retaking and that I am going this cycle (even if it's not the common TLS wisdom), which is my best offer?

Nobody here is just following conventional wisdom. We're listening to your personal situation and giving you independent advice. You're offers at Wake or UNC would be great for a lot of people. But they are bad options for you at this time, because you don't know you're trying to do. You need to have specific goals. Those goals might indicate that you need a retake in the hopes of getting into Duke with a reasonable scholarship. Those goals might also indicate that Wake or UNC is a great deal for you. But its impossible to say at this point, because you don't have specific goals.

[Bacon Cheeseburger]

If the goal is big law, none of the above. That's not what these schools are for. You'd probably have to be in the top 10% to have a good shot at that, and most likely that won't happen. You have no way of predicting how you will do gradewise.

If you have modest career goals I would go with whatever is cheaper between UNC and Wake. Or if it's close in cost, whatever you prefer. But if you do that make sure you go in with a plan, get ready to hustle, and put big law out of your mind. If you bink great grades then great, but you need to hustle for something more attainable.

Fair enough. Thanks for the input. Big Law is more of a nice idea than a goal - though I get that with Wake or UNC, it's slim and none.

[AT9]

I would get some general idea of what you want to do before you go to law school anywhere. Why do you want to be a lawyer?

If you figure that out, then go with whichever you want if the price is close (I'm assuming it is based on what you told us, but actual COA numbers would be helpful).

UNC has had better placement recently, so perhaps it's worth a little more. At least over the past 5-6 years, Wake has had comparable numbers but they're less stable for some reason...just seems to vary by class. And as the others said, biglaw is unlikely at either school. I have a near full-ride and above average numbers, but you'll learn awfully fast (as I did) that assuming you'll be in the top x% is foolish.

Wake 1L, so let me know if you have questions about Wake specifically.

[Mack.Hambleton]

I figure I'll be in the top 1/4 of the class, so I don't think it would hurt me that much.

Jesus Christ