Arizona vs Richmond vs Wayne St Forum

[mich-s]

Arizona: Tuition set at $5k/yr for all three years. Combined with GI bill my total COA will be ~$8k.

Wayne State: $19k/yr scholarship although I'm pretty sure I could negotiate for more. Total COA ~20k.

Richmond: 30k/yr scholarship. Total COA <1k.

I was waitlisted at William & Mary, denied at Michigan, and am still waiting on an answer from Arizona State but doubt I'll get a good offer from them.

I'm originally from Michigan, my fiance and I have ties in AZ, and only I have ties in VA. My goal is to do criminal law or public service such as military JAG, prosecutor, public defender, state AG, etc. I have no interest in biglaw.

I'm leaning towards Arizona but would like to hear what you guys think.

Thanks in advance!

[TheSpanishMain]

What are your numbers? None of these options are particularly appealing, although gun to my head I guess I'd go Arizona. Still, if you're a GI Bill eligible vet, you kind of have a golden ticket. I'd be really careful here not to waste it.

Also, don't think that just because you don't want BigLaw that the normal rules about school choice don't apply to you. It's true that JAG, for example, is less concerned with school prestige than BigLaw firms, but it's still relevant to an extent. JAG/government jobs are still very competitive.

[Johann]

Getting a free legal education from ASU and Richmond isn't appealing? OP, don't listen to that bs. Congrats, both are great options for your goals. If you want to practice in Arizona, go there. If you want to practice in Virginia, go there.

[mich-s]

What are your numbers?

162/3.1x.

It's true that JAG, for example, is less concerned with school prestige than BigLaw firms, but it's still relevant to an extent. JAG/government jobs are still very competitive.

Unless we're talking Harvard or Yale, does school choice really matter that much for government jobs? I'm reasonably certain that the best way to get a local or state prosecutor job in AZ or VA is to go to school in AZ or VA. Is that incorrect?

[zombie mcavoy]

depends where you want to live long term. That's the biggest question we need answered here.

if you want to settle down in AZ, UA with that COA is pretty much an unbeatable option here. But if you want to be in a different region (that is not the immediate Richmond area), I think sitting out and retaking to use that GI bill on a good school in that particular region would be wise. Go where you want to practice.

[mich-s]

depends where you want to live long term. That's the biggest question we need answered here.

if you want to settle down in AZ, UA with that COA is pretty much an unbeatable option here.

Honestly, I'd be okay with any of them but I do like Arizona the most. Plus my fiance has family in the Phoenix area but has no connections in the other states. So I feel like she'd have a better support network in AZ.

But if you want to be in a different region (that is not the immediate Richmond area), I think sitting out and retaking to use that GI bill on a good school in that particular region would be wise. Go where you want to practice.

The sheer amount of law schools in the Virginia area has me worried. That plus Michigan's poor job market have me leaning towards Arizona.

[TheSpanishMain]

Getting a free legal education from ASU and Richmond isn't appealing? OP, don't listen to that bs. Congrats, both are great options for your goals. If you want to practice in Arizona, go there. If you want to practice in Virginia, go there.

I mean it's less appealing than what he could have. I'm not saying UA for free is awful, but it's certainly less than optimal. Richmond is only putting a little over 50% of its grads into FTLT legal jobs, and Wayne State is <50%. So yeah, neither of those are particularly appealing. Arizona, the best of the bunch, is still less than 60%.

As I said, of these options I'd pick AZ. But before I did that I'd try to give myself more options, or at least be very, very sure I wanted to stay in Arizona long term.

Unless we're talking Harvard or Yale, does school choice really matter that much for government jobs? I'm reasonably certain that the best way to get a local or state prosecutor job in AZ or VA is to go to school in AZ or VA. Is that incorrect?

I'm more familiar with JAG than I am with local government, so take this with a grain of salt. But yeah, school choice still matters. It doesn't matter as much as it does for BigLaw firms, but it's still a factor. JAG is also really, really competitive. Like <20% selection rates for most branches. Going to the best school possible just gives you fallback options in case you miss the JAG boat, the local/state government is cash strapped and not hiring prosecutors, etc.

[zombie mcavoy]

Yeah I mean you do have a golden ticket with that GI Bill and retaking for a really good lsat would open a lot of doors for very little debt. You're six or seven more correct answers on the LSAT away from getting into UMich or UVA and not having to pay very much money for either.

But if you are certain that criminal law or local government work is what floats your boat, and if you are sure that you'd be happy in Arizona for a long time, take UA here and don't look back. You're going to have to work your butt off to get the job you want (read: networking/interning like crazy)-- or any job -- but the jobs are want aren't gotten by going to a glitzy school, anyway.

[LafayetteJeff]

Based on your interests, depends solely on where you'd rather live during and after law school, which includes consideration of where you'd rather practice law. You mention prosecutor/public defender work, for example. Do you feel more called to doing that in Arizona or Detroit? These are decent rates at schools that are strong in their locality. Definitely try to negotiate Wayne a bit higher. I'd say green light to either. Richmond is just not strong enough in my limited knowledge.