Harvard$ vs. Michigan$$ Forum

[whodatninja]

First time posting, so hopefully y'all can bear with me.

So I'm currently trying to decide between going to Michigan w/ $40k/yr scholarship and Harvard w/ $19k/yr grants. I'm still waiting to hear back on $$ from NW, UChicago, and Duke, and that could obviously alter the thought process, but I'm not anticipating a much higher % of COA from them than I got from Michigan. The rest of COA would be through loans.

I'm interested in patent law (chemist by training), or maybe tax or other business law. Probably Big Law at first, then hopefully working directly at a pharma/ag/chemical company. I'm not really sure where I'd like to end up working, but I'd be comfortable most places in the Midwest (born there) or East Coast (did some grad work).

My LSAT was 172 and GPA 3.99, if that's informative at all. Also, how do summer earnings affects Harvard's need-based aid? Thoughts, comments, opinions?

[TheodoreKGB]

.

[Indy16]

First time posting, so hopefully y'all can bear with me.

So I'm currently trying to decide between going to Michigan w/ $40k/yr scholarship and Harvard w/ $19k/yr grants. I'm still waiting to hear back on $$ from NW, UChicago, and Duke, and that could obviously alter the thought process, but I'm not anticipating a much higher % of COA from them than I got from Michigan. The rest of COA would be through loans.

I'm interested in patent law (chemist by training), or maybe tax or other business law. Probably Big Law at first, then hopefully working directly at a pharma/ag/chemical company. I'm not really sure where I'd like to end up working, but I'd be comfortable most places in the Midwest (born there) or East Coast (did some grad work).

My LSAT was 172 and GPA 3.99, if that's informative at all. Also, how do summer earnings affects Harvard's need-based aid? Thoughts, comments, opinions?

I'd take Harvard over Michigan in this situation for sure. I think the only thing that would throw a wrench in that is if you get a solid chunk of change from Chicago. Just so many more opportunities at Harvard.

[FloridaCoastalorbust]

harvard by a country mile

[MidwestLifer]

Did you apply late/not broadly enough? You should have better offers with those stats (not that Harvard with a grant is bad!). Those numbers are T14 full-ride worthy.

[Winston1984]

Could you post total COA so we can see the true difference?

[AquafiNa]

Have you negotiated with Michigan at all?

[zombie mcavoy]

Easily harvard against mich here, but you should have other cheaper, great options to choose from against harvard (e.g. NU, Duke, etc. for free). If having a lot of debt isn't a major concern for you, though, h.

[Tiago Splitter]

My LSAT was 172 and GPA 3.99, if that's informative at all. Also, how do summer earnings affects Harvard's need-based aid? Thoughts, comments, opinions?

They take out taxes, and then assume you'll contribute 90% of anything above $7400. So a summer associate job will wipe out most of that for 3L year, and for both years if you get an SA during your 1L summer too.

http://hls.harvard.edu/dept/sfs/student ... er-income/

I'd shoot for something close to a full ride in the T-14, whether at Michigan or elsewhere.

[qwertyTLS]

Have you negotiated with Michigan at all?

+1

[bruinfan10]

Have you negotiated with Michigan at all?

+1

Michigan has a draconian/stupid/self-destructive anti negotiation policy in place (although they make some minor exceptions), but now that Zearfoss and Mark West have presided over the school's first drop from the T10 in the institution's history, maybe they'll rethink some of their policies.

I'd almost definitely think about reapplying in another cycle (and deferring that sweet Harvard acceptance if that's possible) to avoid so much debt, but assuming you're okay with mortgaging your life like that, I would take Harvard. DF and a number of biglaw attorneys would tell you even T3 isn't worth that much debt, but it's a choice tons of T3 kids make. And the LRAP options might justify it, I haven't run the numbers.

[AquafiNa]

Have you negotiated with Michigan at all?

+1

Michigan has a draconian/stupid/self-destructive anti negotiation policy in place (although they make some minor exceptions), but now that Lindsey Stetson, Zearfoss, and Mark West have presided over the school's first drop from the T10 in the institution's history, maybe they'll rethink some of their life choices/policies.

? From what I've seen in the Michigan threads and AWD thread people have had decent success. They definitely aren't less likely than other schools in their tier (VBDN).

Edit: I think you should try and negotiate around, you could get more $ from your other options or Michigan. If you don't I think Harvard may be your best choice because the cost isn't too bad and you want big law

[ballcaps]

bro, 20k from harvard is like manna from heaven.

[jbagelboy]

Id go to Harvard here. Let us know what Chicago comes up with

[downbeat14]

.

[mvp99]

you should try get Michigan full scholarship + stipend. Then take Michigan over Harvard. If not, then Harvard. Also, what happened to the other t14s?

[LSCHI]

you should try get Michigan full scholarship + stipend. Then take Michigan over Harvard. If not, then Harvard. Also, what happened to the other t14s?

I am in an almost identical situation as OP (albeit I am getting $0 from HLS) How would you go about negotiating with Mich up from $120K?

[whodatninja]

I turned in my apps at the end of November. I'll admit I probably didn't apply quite as broadly as I should have bc I assumed my chances of getting a scholarship was like catching a unicorn for a pet. Haven't heard anything from UVA since going complete & Georgetown is my only other $$ and it's less than Mich so that didn't seem negotiation-worthy. I'll definitely try if the other schools give me some good $$ unless just telling them about Harvard+$ would be convincing. I guess the picture will be clearer when Duke, NW, and Chicago get back to me. Thanks for all the advice though!

[KMart]

I guess the picture will be clearer when Duke, NW, and Chicago get back to me. Thanks for all the advice though!

One of these should give you some quality money.

[BiglawAssociate]

This a tough one. According to LST, the total COA at Harvard is $312k, Michigan is $271k. So the difference ends up being a little over $100,000.

EDIT: Given that you qualified for need-based aid from Harvard, is it safe to assume you'll be financing law school through loans?

Is this a joke? Neither choice is good. You're better off working for a 50k job with no law degree than going to law school if you're taking out 300k in loans.

[jbagelboy]

This a tough one. According to LST, the total COA at Harvard is $312k, Michigan is $271k. So the difference ends up being a little over $100,000.

EDIT: Given that you qualified for need-based aid from Harvard, is it safe to assume you'll be financing law school through loans?

Is this a joke? Neither choice is good. You're better off working for a 50k job with no law degree than going to law school if you're taking out 300k in loans.

you seem to have misunderstood the OP and the poster you're quoting

[BiglawAssociate]

This a tough one. According to LST, the total COA at Harvard is $312k, Michigan is $271k. So the difference ends up being a little over $100,000.

EDIT: Given that you qualified for need-based aid from Harvard, is it safe to assume you'll be financing law school through loans?

Is this a joke? Neither choice is good. You're better off working for a 50k job with no law degree than going to law school if you're taking out 300k in loans.

you seem to have misunderstood the OP and the poster you're quoting

I understand OP has some "scholly" - still not enough IMO for either.

[jbagelboy]

This a tough one. According to LST, the total COA at Harvard is $312k, Michigan is $271k. So the difference ends up being a little over $100,000.

EDIT: Given that you qualified for need-based aid from Harvard, is it safe to assume you'll be financing law school through loans?

Is this a joke? Neither choice is good. You're better off working for a 50k job with no law degree than going to law school if you're taking out 300k in loans.

you seem to have misunderstood the OP and the poster you're quoting

I understand OP has some "scholly" - still not enough IMO for either.

I'm all about the debt reduction, but I'm actually comfortable with both Harvard and Michigan at these prices. If you don't think $20k/year at Harvard or $40k/year at a lower T14 are fair investments, you're basically saying no one should be in law school.

[Big Dog]

This a tough one.

I disagree, strongly.

btw, OP: no school likes the word 'negotiation', but if you really like a different LS, given 'em the old line: I really prefer xx for its programs in y & z, but the fact is that HLS is just hard to pass up at not much more....(the Dean can take a hint...)

[BiglawAssociate]

I'm all about the debt reduction, but I'm actually comfortable with both Harvard and Michigan at these prices. If you don't think $20k/year at Harvard or $40k/year at a lower T14 are fair investments, you're basically saying no one should be in law school.

It's only a "fair investment" if you know you will enjoy practicing and you will do it for the long term; these will not be true for most people.

My coworkers and I discuss on a daily basis about what we should do next with our lives or what kind of careers we could have had besides law (we weren't liberal arts majors so we did have jobs or could have had jobs).

And I think half of us will take the plunge to get out of law in the next few years - the work is boring; the hours are terrible; and the pay is not great in comparison to business/finance. Plus, there are a lot of d-bags in biglaw.

You probably don't get what I mean because you're still in law school. I loved law school - it was easy. I graduated magna from a T-14 and barely did any work. Biglaw is awful and there are days/weeks where I literally question my existence and meaning of life. I'm not alone - most of us do. And frankly, we're only here for the supposed good pay. When you realize the pay is crap in comparison to other stuff you could be doing, and that the road only gets worse with more responsibility, why continue doing it? Plus, there's also no middle ground in law. Even public interest attorneys work longer than 40 hour work weeks, except for crap pay.

Frankly, even if you "win" in law school, you likely still lose.