How valuable is a t14, really? Forum

lansauce · Post by **lansauce** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:53 am

I have been accepted to Georgetown as well as a few other schools. As part of the early admittance process for Georgetown, I need to inform them by February 15th if I am going to accept the early admission, and turn down all other admittances simultaneously. This is before financial aid packets would come in, and is stressing me out to no end. I called their office, they informed me that I shouldn't have applied early admission if finances were going to be an issue, but I don't honestly see how there is a universe where finances wouldn't be an issue. Vermont is basically offering me a free ride, and is making me feel like the prettiest girl at the ball. This, plus the fact that they're ranked #1 at environmental law has me really considering them. I really want to practice environmental law, so I don't think I'll be able to make a ton of money after I graduate even if I go to a great school. I've tried to do some research, but I'm not sure if I have enough info to make a decision on this, and would really appreciate some help.

Cicero76 · Post by **Cicero76** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:56 am

How valuable is Georgetown really?

Not $250k worth of valuable. "Shouldn't have applied early admission if finances were an issue" is a dumb statement, and you should tell them where they can stick it by declining their oh so generous offer.

fats provolone · Post by **fats provolone** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:56 am

yea georgetown at sticker i wouldn't wish on my worst enemy

however: describe your desired job in environmental law and how vermont's #1 ranking will help you get there

mvp99 · Post by **mvp99** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:56 am

lansauce wrote:I have been accepted to Georgetown as well as a few other schools. As part of the early admittance process for Georgetown, I need to inform them by February 15th if I am going to accept the early admission, and turn down all other admittances simultaneously. This is before financial aid packets would come in, and is stressing me out to no end. I called their office, they informed me that I shouldn't have applied early admission if finances were going to be an issue, but I don't honestly see how there is a universe where finances wouldn't be an issue. Vermont is basically offering me a free ride, and is making me feel like the prettiest girl at the ball. This, plus the fact that they're ranked #1 at environmental law has me really considering them. I really want to practice environmental law, so I don't think I'll be able to make a ton of money after I graduate even if I go to a great school. I've tried to do some research, but I'm not sure if I have enough info to make a decision on this, and would really appreciate some help.

Irrelevant.

03152016 · Post by **03152016** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:10 am

op, did you apply binding early decision?

victory · Post by **victory** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:15 am

Brut wrote:op, did you apply binding early decision?

That's what I think happened.

http://www.law.georgetown.edu/admission ... cision.cfm

Should I apply Early Decision if the receipt of institutional financial aid is a prerequisite for enrolling?

No. Any candidate for whom receipt of institutional financial aid is a prerequisite for enrolling should not apply through the Early Decision process. Instead, candidates for whom receipt of institutional financial aid is a prerequisite for enrolling should apply Regular Decision. Applicants to Georgetown Law will not be able to complete the Georgetown Institutional Aid application until after they have been admitted.

It makes sense why admissions got pissed, since in the FAQ OP was told not to do what she did.

describe your desired job in environmental law and how vermont's #1 ranking will help you get there

OP answer this pls

middlebear · Post by **middlebear** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:16 am

Specialty program "rankings" are irrelevant.

Where do you want to practice? You definitely shouldn't pay sticker at GULC, but if you think you might get some aid and you don't want to be in Vermont...

timbs4339 · Post by **timbs4339** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:16 am

OP: I think you need to sit out a year. From applying ED to GT $300K price tag without doing the research on that, to using the phrases "Vermont Law" "environmental law" and "a ton of money" in the same post, you need to focus on putting together a good app and figuring out what you want to do. If you want to make "a ton of money" the only option is biglaw, and the only acceptable choice for those odds is a T13. I would not do GT at sticker if all I wanted was biglaw.

TheSpanishMain · Post by **TheSpanishMain** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:51 am

I think sitting out a year is a good idea (and if EA at Georgetown is binding, probably mandatory. ) OP seems confused about quite a bit. Not an insult, just an observation

downbeat14 · Post by **downbeat14** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:58 am

Post by **romothesavior** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:44 am

First of all, don't let specialty rankings even enter the equation. Focus on cost, job prospects, and geographic strength.

Georgetown at sticker is a terrible investment, but you can do better than Vermont. Retake, reapply, and go to a school with solid employment prospects at a discount.

Johann · Post by **Johann** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:54 am

the worth of a t-14, and the worth of any law school, boils down to what alternative options you have. if you want to do environmental law, are not concerned with making money, there are a lot of ways to work for environmental agencies without a law degree, especially if you have a relevant major and good gpa. have you applied for any jobs?

lansauce · Post by **lansauce** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:12 pm

Victory wrote:
Brut wrote:op, did you apply binding early decision?
That's what I think happened.

http://www.law.georgetown.edu/admission ... cision.cfm
Should I apply Early Decision if the receipt of institutional financial aid is a prerequisite for enrolling?

No. Any candidate for whom receipt of institutional financial aid is a prerequisite for enrolling should not apply through the Early Decision process. Instead, candidates for whom receipt of institutional financial aid is a prerequisite for enrolling should apply Regular Decision. Applicants to Georgetown Law will not be able to complete the Georgetown Institutional Aid application until after they have been admitted.
It makes sense why admissions got pissed, since in the FAQ OP was told not to do what she did.

describe your desired job in environmental law and how vermont's #1 ranking will help you get there
OP answer this pls

Wasn't taken as an insult. I am actually a little confused.
I applied binding early admission, but I am genuinely worried about student debt after graduation. I didn't expect to get any sort of scholarship offers like the ones I'm getting from tier 2-3 schools. Receiving aid wasn't a prerequisite for going to Georgetown, but now that I know where I actually stand, the terrain has shifted a bit. These little guys had to get back to me first and completely shift the terrain. I'm weighing the costs of taking a year off and re-applying without doing binding decision anywhere, versus going in blind and hoping it all works out. I think I'm just stressing needlessly.

UnicornHunter · Post by **UnicornHunter** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:16 pm

lansauce wrote: I think I'm just stressing needlessly.

Not needlessly. Making the wrong move here could literally weigh you down with 6 figures of non-dischargeable debt for the rest of your life. Sit out a year, and probably retake.

Desert Fox · Post by **Desert Fox** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:16 pm

In my experience negatvei 264 thousand dollars at 8% per anum.

lansauce · Post by **lansauce** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:23 pm

You need to sit out and apply again with some much better research into the admissions process. How did you not know that early decision=no scholarship money? This means you did almost no reading/research (or certainly the wrong kinds) before undertaking the process of applying.

I didn't not know, I just didn't think I would be getting any substantial scholarship offers, or at least not the kind of scholarship offers I've received to date. Applying binding early admissions was a great idea, until I started getting offers from these little schools. I guess I underestimated myself.

bl1nds1ght · Post by **bl1nds1ght** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:34 pm

lansauce wrote:
I didn't not know, I just didn't think I would be getting any substantial scholarship offers, or at least not the kind of scholarship offers I've received to date. Applying binding early admissions was a great idea, until I started getting offers from these little schools. I guess I underestimated myself.

OP, do you realize how much debt GULC @ sticker actually is? It's more than $250k, and as DF said, the interest can reach as high as 8%.

How are you financing law school?

Also, keep in mind that the employment prospects from Vermont are far inferior to those of GULC. You've got a huge tradeoff to consider here, unless you decide to sit out and retake for next cycle.

TheSpanishMain · Post by **TheSpanishMain** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:06 pm

lansauce wrote:
You need to sit out and apply again with some much better research into the admissions process. How did you not know that early decision=no scholarship money? This means you did almost no reading/research (or certainly the wrong kinds) before undertaking the process of applying.
I didn't not know, I just didn't think I would be getting any substantial scholarship offers, or at least not the kind of scholarship offers I've received to date. Applying binding early admissions was a great idea, until I started getting offers from these little schools. I guess I underestimated myself.

Applying binding EA was not a great idea. At most schools for most applicants it's a horrible idea. You lose all leverage.

lansauce · Post by **lansauce** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:07 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:
lansauce wrote:
You need to sit out and apply again with some much better research into the admissions process. How did you not know that early decision=no scholarship money? This means you did almost no reading/research (or certainly the wrong kinds) before undertaking the process of applying.
I didn't not know, I just didn't think I would be getting any substantial scholarship offers, or at least not the kind of scholarship offers I've received to date. Applying binding early admissions was a great idea, until I started getting offers from these little schools. I guess I underestimated myself.
Applying binding EA was not a great idea. At most schools for most applicants it's a horrible idea. You lose all leverage.

Yeah, definitely dropped the ball on that one. I went to speak with a rep for Georgetown at the LSAC meet up by my house (waste of time) and he was super gung-ho about it. He basically told me that I should definitely do it, and it's totally worth it, and that the people who applied for it would have a better chance of getting in, and that those who got in and turned it down would sometimes be denied regular admission that same year. (This last part is extremely confusing because that's not what binding early admission is, right?)

lansauce · Post by **lansauce** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:09 pm

bl1nds1ght wrote:
lansauce wrote:
I didn't not know, I just didn't think I would be getting any substantial scholarship offers, or at least not the kind of scholarship offers I've received to date. Applying binding early admissions was a great idea, until I started getting offers from these little schools. I guess I underestimated myself.
OP, do you realize how much debt GULC @ sticker actually is? It's more than $250k, and as DF said, the interest can reach as high as 8%.

How are you financing law school?

Also, keep in mind that the employment prospects from Vermont are far inferior to those of GULC. You've got a huge tradeoff to consider here, unless you decide to sit out and retake for next cycle.

To be honest, I was going to rely on public service loan forgiveness, but it looks like that might no longer be a thing when I graduate.

bugsy33 · Post by **bugsy33** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:51 pm

Choosing between GULC and Vermont is like choosing between a Cadillac Escalade and a Huffy BMX bike because the Huffy is more "eco friendly."

Vermont Law seriously might not even be around in five years. Specialty rankings don't matter. It's still not too late to send more apps out. Hit some T1 flagships and try to find a good deal.

pamphleteer · Post by **pamphleteer** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:14 pm

You can get out of "binding" early decision if you don't matriculate at any law school this fall, right? If so that's definitely what OP should do. Sit out a year, get some work experience, retake the LSAT if applicable and don't pay sticker at Georgetown.

ETA: In fairness to GULC it does have an excellent LRAP. But as I understand it working in "environmental law" or landing any other PI/fedgov gig straight out of law school is exceedingly difficult.

lansauce · Post by **lansauce** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:35 am

pamphleteer wrote:You can get out of "binding" early decision if you don't matriculate at any law school this fall, right? If so that's definitely what OP should do. Sit out a year, get some work experience, retake the LSAT if applicable and don't pay sticker at Georgetown.

ETA: In fairness to GULC it does have an excellent LRAP. But as I understand it working in "environmental law" or landing any other PI/fedgov gig straight out of law school is exceedingly difficult.

I was under the impression that working for non-profits would allow me to get LRAP, and I've already had a decent amount of work experience with some environmental non-profits

DaRascal · Post by **DaRascal** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:58 am

A T14 is worth all the marbles. You have to think 10-20 years down the line, bro.
As my high school baseball coach once said- Pain is temporary, victory is forever.

Clyde Frog · Post by **Clyde Frog** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:05 am

DaRascal wrote:A T14 is worth all the marbles. You have to think 10-20 years down the line, bro.
As my high school baseball coach once said- Pain is temporary, victory is forever.

Did you use your baseball coach's advice when you were persuing your ex?

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