UC-Irvine Forum

[iguazu]

I've heard that UCI has been recruiting some great faculty and their medians are increasing every year. Anyone here have the inside scoop on what someone could expect if choosing to go there c/o 2018?

[NYCFAN1]

You can expect mediocre job prospects and ridiculously high tuition & cost of living

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/irvine/2013/

[iguazu]

Thanks for the link, just wasn't sure if people thought those trends might change since they're fully accredited now. Not giving serious consideration unless I get full scholly, anyway, but wouldn't mind living and practicing in Irvine/Newport

[sesto elemento]

If only Dr. Dre were here

[Pragmatic Gun]

Their medians dropped a point and they increased their class size. Not a good sign.

[iguazu]

Their medians dropped a point and they increased their class size. Not a good sign.

I feel ya. Gotta break 170 then for sure.

[BigZuck]

If you don't have ties to Orange County then stay far, far away

Also, their medians are increasing every year? Not sure why that would matter but is that true?

[heythatslife]

The faculty at any school should not enter into consideration for deciding where to attend.

[jbagelboy]

Thanks for the link, just wasn't sure if people thought those trends might change since they're fully accredited now. Not giving serious consideration unless I get full scholly, anyway, but wouldn't mind living and practicing in Irvine/Newport

OC biglaw recruits nationwide -- and nationwide really just means T14 & top quarter at USC/UCLA. If you want to work in Irvine or Newport, heading to a strong feeder school for top CA firms is still TCR over UCI. I've been disturbingly surprises by how poorly represented UCI students fall in the classes of large law firms in OC.

[ManoftheHour]

Not worth attending unless you're on a full ride, want SoCal, and okay with not getting big law.

[ManoftheHour]

If only Dr. Dre were here

I miss him.

[eaternation]

Class size for this year is under 100. Don't know about median but I expect it to likely go up this year. We are getting ranked this year. Last year the yield was higher than expected.If you want big law then clearly not ideal. If you are dedicated to pi (non prestigious) n can maximize ur scholly not a bad option.

[ManoftheHour]

Those guys in the first class got such a good deal. Free tuition for 50+% big law/fed clerkships.

[twenty]

Don't go to any regional school unless:

you're on a full ride, want [specific region tied to school], and okay with not getting big law.

If any one of these things are not true, without reservation, DO NOT GO. If all three of those things are true, however, UCI is a solid option.

[iguazu]

Don't go to any regional school unless:

you're on a full ride, want [specific region tied to school], and okay with not getting big law.

If any one of these things are not true, without reservation, DO NOT GO. If all three of those things are true, however, UCI is a solid option.

Awesome feedback, ya'll.
My fiance is an MD and we could really end up anywhere, so I guess I really do need to go to a school with reputation strong enough to find a job in different cities. This is something I wish I would have understood a few months ago, but LIVE and LEARN

[twenty]

If your fiance is in MD for the short haul and you really could end up anywhere, you might consider putting off law school until he gets more settled. Long distance relationships suck.

T14 degrees are also probably not quite as mobile as TLS would have you believe. Seeing as it's substantially harder to get a meaningful-enough scholarship to save you from the biglaw boat at a T14, you now have to do biglaw in order to finance your student loan debt. If you went to NU/UChi, you're stuck in Chicago. If you went anywhere else, you're stuck in NYC.*

So like, the whole wisdom of "don't go to a regional school unless you work in the region" also translates to "don't go to a T14 unless you want to work in NYC."

*notable exception: berkeley

edit> fixed for gender

[jbagelboy]

If your fiance is in MD for the short haul and you really could end up anywhere, you might consider putting off law school until she gets more settled. Long distance relationships suck.

T14 degrees are also probably not quite as mobile as TLS would have you believe. Seeing as it's substantially harder to get a meaningful-enough scholarship to save you from the biglaw boat at a T14, you now have to do biglaw in order to finance your student loan debt. If you went to NU/UChi, you're stuck in Chicago. If you went anywhere else, you're stuck in NYC.*

So like, the whole wisdom of "don't go to a regional school unless you work in the region" also translates to "don't go to a T14 unless you want to work in NYC."

*notable exception: berkeley

Sorry twenty, but that's really just not true; chicago is probably a tougher market for NU/Chicago students than NYC or Texas. UChi students can reach NY V10 firms surprisingly low in their class. DC is available to those with strong grades from any T14 (as in not locked out due to geography, still very competitive). Similarly, the northeast schools - Yale, Harvard, Columbia, NYU - aren't limited to NY or Boston. Obviously it's easiest to head to NY but you're hardly "stuck" in NY. Going through OCI, all major markets (SF, LA, DC, Chicago, TX, London, HK) are eminently penetrable. Sure you need some tie but I don't think your assessment is fair, and sorry to say it, but especially since you haven't been through a private sector OCI yet.

[Mal Reynolds]

T14 degrees are also probably not quite as mobile as TLS would have you believe. Seeing as it's substantially harder to get a meaningful-enough scholarship to save you from the biglaw boat at a T14, you now have to do biglaw in order to finance your student loan debt. If you went to NU/UChi, you're stuck in Chicago. If you went anywhere else, you're stuck in NYC.*

So like, the whole wisdom of "don't go to a regional school unless you work in the region" also translates to "don't go to a T14 unless you want to work in NYC."

*notable exception: berkeley

edit> fixed for gender

This is all just so wrong.

[iguazu]

T14 degrees are also probably not quite as mobile as TLS would have you believe. Seeing as it's substantially harder to get a meaningful-enough scholarship to save you from the biglaw boat at a T14, you now have to do biglaw in order to finance your student loan debt. If you went to NU/UChi, you're stuck in Chicago. If you went anywhere else, you're stuck in NYC.*

So like, the whole wisdom of "don't go to a regional school unless you work in the region" also translates to "don't go to a T14 unless you want to work in NYC."

*notable exception: berkeley

edit> fixed for gender

This is all just so wrong.

Damn. I'll give it a shot this round but seems more and more like I will want to wait and see where he ends up for residency--as has been the advice in another thread--before committing to a school

[Mal Reynolds]

T14 degrees are also probably not quite as mobile as TLS would have you believe. Seeing as it's substantially harder to get a meaningful-enough scholarship to save you from the biglaw boat at a T14, you now have to do biglaw in order to finance your student loan debt. If you went to NU/UChi, you're stuck in Chicago. If you went anywhere else, you're stuck in NYC.*

So like, the whole wisdom of "don't go to a regional school unless you work in the region" also translates to "don't go to a T14 unless you want to work in NYC."

*notable exception: berkeley

edit> fixed for gender

This is all just so wrong.

Also aren't you a 1L and not in the t14?

[twenty]

If your fiance is in MD for the short haul and you really could end up anywhere, you might consider putting off law school until she gets more settled. Long distance relationships suck.

T14 degrees are also probably not quite as mobile as TLS would have you believe. Seeing as it's substantially harder to get a meaningful-enough scholarship to save you from the biglaw boat at a T14, you now have to do biglaw in order to finance your student loan debt. If you went to NU/UChi, you're stuck in Chicago. If you went anywhere else, you're stuck in NYC.*

So like, the whole wisdom of "don't go to a regional school unless you work in the region" also translates to "don't go to a T14 unless you want to work in NYC."

*notable exception: berkeley

Sorry twenty, but that's really just not true; chicago is probably a tougher market for NU/Chicago students than NYC or Texas. UChi students can reach NY V10 firms surprisingly low in their class. DC is available to those with strong grades from any T14 (as in not locked out due to geography, still very competitive). Similarly, the northeast schools - Yale, Harvard, Columbia, NYU - aren't limited to NY or Boston. Obviously it's easiest to head to NY but you're hardly "stuck" in NY. Going through OCI, all major markets (SF, LA, DC, Chicago, TX, London, HK) are eminently penetrable. Sure you need some tie but I don't think your assessment is fair, and sorry to say it, but especially since you haven't been through a private sector OCI yet.

At the risk of sounding insincere:

0.5) If Chicago is a tougher market for UChi/NU students to get into than NYC is, double down on my "only go to T14 if you're down with NYC" point.
1) There are a lot of caveats being brushed off here. OP doesn't have the GPA for HYS, so I don't know where that's coming from. The idea that you can just head into a non-NYC market from a T14 is fairly optimistic, even in light of last year's LST numbers.
2) This is all in light of OP's SO. OP can't just "bid on X market, but be okay with Y" like single law students can. The reality is, there's a very good chance OP ends up at medianish at a T14 and only gets NYC biglaw. That's a lot worse when you throw in a ton of student loan debt and a husband who's stuck in not-NYC doing a residency.

edit> That notwithstanding, I recognize that "t14 = guaranteed NYC" as a matter of fact is not relevant/true in the same way as it is specifically for OP.

[Mal Reynolds]

At U Chicago (a non-HYS school), less than 30% stay in Chicago. More people end up in California than in NYC-also keep in mind that California has two major markets and multiple smaller markets. And a significant amount end up in DC. Also lots of people are not going to NYC as a last resort. They are electing to summer at a V10 and had other options in different markets, even for people down to median. You are painting with an extremely broad brush and for someone who hasn't gone through OCI I think your conclusions about LST placement data are laughable.

[jbagelboy]

If your fiance is in MD for the short haul and you really could end up anywhere, you might consider putting off law school until she gets more settled. Long distance relationships suck.

T14 degrees are also probably not quite as mobile as TLS would have you believe. Seeing as it's substantially harder to get a meaningful-enough scholarship to save you from the biglaw boat at a T14, you now have to do biglaw in order to finance your student loan debt. If you went to NU/UChi, you're stuck in Chicago. If you went anywhere else, you're stuck in NYC.*

So like, the whole wisdom of "don't go to a regional school unless you work in the region" also translates to "don't go to a T14 unless you want to work in NYC."

*notable exception: berkeley

Sorry twenty, but that's really just not true; chicago is probably a tougher market for NU/Chicago students than NYC or Texas. UChi students can reach NY V10 firms surprisingly low in their class. DC is available to those with strong grades from any T14 (as in not locked out due to geography, still very competitive). Similarly, the northeast schools - Yale, Harvard, Columbia, NYU - aren't limited to NY or Boston. Obviously it's easiest to head to NY but you're hardly "stuck" in NY. Going through OCI, all major markets (SF, LA, DC, Chicago, TX, London, HK) are eminently penetrable. Sure you need some tie but I don't think your assessment is fair, and sorry to say it, but especially since you haven't been through a private sector OCI yet.

At the risk of sounding insincere:

0.5) If Chicago is a tougher market for UChi/NU students to get into than NYC is, double down on my "only go to T14 if you're down with NYC" point.
1) There are a lot of caveats being brushed off here. OP doesn't have the GPA for HYS, so I don't know where that's coming from. The idea that you can just head into a non-NYC market from a T14 is fairly optimistic, even in light of last year's LST numbers.
2) This is all in light of OP's SO. OP can't just "bid on X market, but be okay with Y" like single law students can. The reality is, there's a very good chance OP ends up at medianish at a T14 and only gets NYC biglaw. That's a lot worse when you throw in a ton of student loan debt and a husband who's stuck in not-NYC doing a residency.

edit> That notwithstanding, I recognize that "t14 = guaranteed NYC" as a matter of fact is not relevant/true in the same way as it is specifically for OP.

to be fair I'm not invested enough in this to re-situate all your comments in the context of OP's relationship, so you'll have to forgive me for that, but I think you're fundamentally misplacing the cause and correlation here in a way that mistakes the nature of nationwide firm recruiting at top schools. Maybe we agree in the result but the logic is just different. The New York legal market has more summer associate positions at large firms than most other US markets combined. Simpson Thacher alone probably brings in a larger summer class than all the pacific northwest. Simply put, most T14* students wind up in NY because the majority of SA positions are there, not because their degrees don't "travel" to other markets. All major markets still recruit students with ties to those markets from the top schools -- that's why we say they have 'national reach' -- they just have far fewer spots in the class to offer. So of course it looks like most T14 students are going to New York firms.. but aside from rare incredibly insular exceptions like central florida or Denver, that doesn't mean there are other schools secondary market firms prefer.

I think what you were saying, or at least what the reader would infer from your post, was fundamentally different: that your degree from a T14 won't be recognized as relevant outside of New York (or for your bizarre Chicago contention, chicago schools), in contrast to other degrees. I think this is wrong. Large firms recruit nationwide and attend OCI at schools they expect to pull summers from or where they've decided its valuable to retain a relationship with: crucially, every major market player will attend OCI at two sets of schools, the top schools and the feeders in its region, but conversely, secondary market offices will not attend OCI at regional schools in other markets.

So "only go to T14 if you're down with NYC," is incredibly misleading, not only because kids from schools like chicago go everywhere, but also because its corollary is, if you don't want NYC go regional, when in fact the reality is that secondary and tertiary market big law is just difficult to get because there are so few spots, and its still better coming from median at a competitive program with ties than higher in the class at a local school.

*(and I mean all fourteen T14s, the same OCI principles apply regardless of where the institution falls in the commercial magazine survey)

ETA: as Mal suggested also, sometimes people go to NYC intentionally because they think the top vault firms have stronger transactional practices or whatever other reason, it doesn't mean they were forced to go there. I know its anecdotal, but I know of multiple offers in every major legal market, even from people without strong grades.

[Tiago Splitter]

So "only go to T14 if you're down with NYC," is incredibly misleading, not only because kids from schools like chicago go everywhere, but also because its corollary is, if you don't want NYC go regional, when in fact the reality is that secondary and tertiary market big law is just difficult to get because there are so few spots, and its still better coming from median at a competitive program with ties than higher in the class at a local school.

I agree that it can be misleading but it's still a good rule of thumb to say that you should be prepared to have to work in NYC if you take on big debt, which most people do for the T-14. You are absolutely right that people unwilling to retake the LSAT should not feel free to interpret this to mean that because they don't want NYC they don't need to retake and can settle for their crappy regional.

As for the OP, I'm not really sure what advice to give other than to get the highest possible LSAT and see what happens. Might make sense to hold off on law school for a couple years while your fiancee figures out his/her plans.

[20160810]

FWIW UCI makes the really stupid choice not to rank their graduates and this definitely hurts UCI students in OCI. Unless you have a clearly amazing GPA, I'm going to be hesitant to recommend someone when I have no idea what their class rank is unless they're from a school so good it doesn't matter (i.e., lots and lots better than UCI).