Sports Law at Marquette or Tulane Forum

[tre531]

I am a midwest guy that would be happy to work full time in Indy, Milwaukee, Chicago, Minneapolis, etc. (wherever in the midwest really). Therefore most of my applications will be to the 9 or 10 or whatever it is number of top 40 schools that are in the region (mostly B1G schools). I also would very much love to work in sports law, and of course the only schools to my knowledge that offer such a certificate are Marquette and Tulane. While these schools (Marquette in particular) are lower ranked and worse value, I will be heavily considering them since sports law has been my dream for some time. The admissions staffs from both schools have given me, in addition to all the potential benefits and cool aspects, the sobering advice of how hard it is to get into the field at all and that the possibility of entry-level positions in the field is next to zero. However, I am confident that at this stage, I am willing to put in whatever work and time necessary even with the relatively higher risk.

I guess what I'm looking for is people who are familiar with the sports law program at either school and what more I should know about them in order to make a decision to attend these schools instead of the higher ranked midwest schools that I am pretty confident I will obtain admission to (not to sound cocky or anything, I think I would be a stretch for UChicago, Northwestern and Michigan). I know this has the appearance of pipe dream (as most law school decisions have), and maybe it is, so hopefully there will either be some more sobering advice to swing me the other direction or assurance that it is okay to be striving for a tough goal to achieve.

Thanks for any help!

P.S. I by no means am trying to insult the quality of either Tulane or Marquette law schools in general. I just have done my research on them and know that there are potentially significant salary and job probability sacrifices should I choose either school instead of a Minnesota, Illinois, Iowa, etc. Just looking for more clarity as to the exact magnitude of these sacrifices.

[should-i-do-it]

Forget speciality rankings/certificated bro. The guy graduating from Harvard with no sports law classes has a much much much better chance at landing a job in the field than someone with a sports certificate and top grades at Marquette/Tulane. Go to the best school you can get into in the region you want to practice

[Wingtip88]

Go to the best school you can get into in the region you want to practice

…and leaves you with a manageable debt load.

I don't even know if there is a measurable way to assess a given law school's actual job placement in the field of "sports law."

[BigZuck]

What do you mean by "sports law?" Can you point to some specific jobs in that field?

[should-i-do-it]

Go to the best school you can get into in the region you want to practice

…and leaves you with a manageable debt load.

I don't even know if there is a measurable way to assess a given law school's actual job placement in the field of "sports law."

Yeah, keep the debt low too
I'm interested in knowing what the admissions folks told you about job prospects in the field. I'm a big surprised at what seems like a bit of honesty

[tre531]

What do you mean by "sports law?" Can you point to some specific jobs in that field?

From what both admission offices have told me, it seems like the typical career path of a graduate who earns the certificate that ends up working in sports law is 3-5 years practicing for any kind of firm either in the state or a surrounding state, and then networking one's butt off and landing a gig somewhere in the 5-7 year range from graduation at a firm that actually has a sports law practice area. Not just limited to athlete representation, other examples of sports law jobs from what they told me would be handling real estate and finance for the stadiums of different franchises or even just handling the everyday corporate finance and/or trial disputes that arise within organizations.

Not sure if that helps at all, but that's as descriptive as an explanation as I've gotten.

[Johann]

You need to go to a school that proskauer rose recruits from and then work there.

[tre531]

Go to the best school you can get into in the region you want to practice

…and leaves you with a manageable debt load.

I don't even know if there is a measurable way to assess a given law school's actual job placement in the field of "sports law."

Yeah, keep the debt low too
I'm interested in knowing what the admissions folks told you about job prospects in the field. I'm a big surprised at what seems like a bit of honesty

I have appreciated their honesty. I think they really want to stress that a lot of students come to their school not clear as to what pursuing their sports law certificate actually entails. In the most pessimistic view (which obviously still contains optimism since they are endorsing their school after all), one should view going to their law school in pursuit of the certificate as a strong resume boost that would give you a huge leg up over a candidate that is just as qualified based off of previous work experience and connections to the firm. In other words, it is essentially a tie-breaker if law school attended, previous law experience, and previous "networking" (connections made with the firm previously, attitude and knowledge of sports, etc.) are all equal.

That was the view of just one person from one of the schools, out of the eight total now that I've talked to. So that description makes me lean toward going to a school like Minnesota or Iowa provided I get accepted, but I have heard a lot of good things as well that still make me consider sports law programs. Things like firms with sports law practice actively seeking candidates with the certificate because previous hires have done really well or the strong possibility that a summer internship with a sports team or organization can be obtained even though these almost always do not lead to immediate full time offers.

I think the big takeaway I've received is that if I go to one of the sports law schools, I should be prepared to not be actually practicing sports law for at least 5 years and even then, the odds are much less than 50% a job is even obtained at all. Both schools have stressed however that sports law specialty students still study normal curriculum most of the 3 years and do not face any disadvantage in getting a job in any other practice should sports law not open up.

[tre531]

You need to go to a school that proskauer rose recruits from and then work there.

Any other firms you know of that should influence the decision? I know Proskauer Rose is considered the industry leader, but just looking for any secondary options. Tulane, Michigan and I guess Chicago-Kent are the only ones on my radar that PR lists on their website as targeted recruiting schools. Obviously makes sense with it being a coast-dominated practice, but hoping to narrow my research. Thanks!

[drive4showLSAT4dough]

You need to go to a school that proskauer rose recruits from and then work there.

Any other firms you know of that should influence the decision? I know Proskauer Rose is considered the industry leader, but just looking for any secondary options. Tulane, Michigan and I guess Chicago-Kent are the only ones on my radar that PR lists on their website as targeted recruiting schools. Obviously makes sense with it being a coast-dominated practice, but hoping to narrow my research. Thanks!

You're looking at this completely backwards. You don't pick a specialty, then firms excelling in the specialty, then a law school that the firm recruits from. What you do, instead, is pick a law school that gives you a good chance at two things: (1) gainful employment in your desired geographical region and (2) minimal debt, then you pick a firm, then you pick a specialty.

Getting a job at proskauer is HARD. Even if you are the best "sports law" person at tulane or wherever. Good grades from an elite school are more important than your demonstrated interest in a specialty subfield.

And if you want to be an agent then you need to reconsider whether a JD even helps you do that in the first place.

[NYCFAN1]

go look at the wikipedia pages of some of the top sports guy

none of them got where they got because of a "certificate" in sports law


retake for t10 or befriend a 5 star high school recruit if you want a more realistic chance at practicing sports law

edit: most of the t14 (if not all) offer sports law classes, dont go to a TTT for a bs certificate

[McAvoy]

Do not, under any circumstances, go to Marquette.

[gnomgnomuch]

Certifications are worth literally zero for job prospects.

Here's how likely you are to work as a sports lawyer graduating from Harvard in the top 10% - a maybe 10% chance if you're super super lucky and have connections.

Here's how likely you are to work as a sports lawyer graduating from Marquette or Tulane as the number 1 student - a maybe 1% chance if you're super super super super super lucky, have connections and discover the next Lebron James.

Get the highest LSAT you can.... no lower than a 165, and go to the best ranked school in the region you want to work in at as close to a full ride as possible.

[TheSpanishMain]

Do you only want to be a sports lawyer? As in, for you is it Jerry Maguire > Something else entirely > Lawyer in general?

If so, I'd recommend skipping law school entirely. It's such a niche field that even if you go to a good school it's pretty unlikely.

[deadpanic]

The only kind of "sports law" you will be doing from one of these schools is defending your old high school football coach on a DUI after he has too much Miller Time on a Friday night.

You will be wasting 3 years and tons of money trying to get into a field that basically does not exist.

[timbs4339]

Under no circumstances go to Marquette or Tulane. Look, this is like the law school version of wanting to be an astronaut. It's something you grow out of after realizing that the reality isn't like what you think it will be and it's not going to happen. If you actually want to be a lawyer, then you should do some more research because it sounds like you might have decent options.

Proskauer does not "recruit" from C-K or Tulane. They show up and maybe hire one person every 2-3 years. (Go to the Proskauer website. Search "Professionals > Associate > Chicago-Kent or Tulane" the numbers are zero and two in a firm with like 800 lawyers).

You go to a school with good biglaw prospects, then you get the grades, then you hope that you get an offer at one of the firms with a lot of league clients. Otherwise, you're not going to work your way into doing RE law for the Bengals by hooking on with a DA office in Cincy and then applying to Jones Day in 5 years. It just doesn't work like that, I'm sorry. Even the pessimistic adcom was being optimistic.

[P.J.Fry]

Here is a somewhat related analogy that probably isn't far off the mark.

A law student wanting to be a "sports lawyer" is like an average high school football player wanting to make the NFL.
Going to Marquette or Tulane would be like playing on the high school football team that finished 4th in whatever random city championships they were in.
Getting a Sports Law Certificate from either of these schools would be equivalent to not being the worst player on that team, and maybe even getting regular play time.

Attending Harvard Law School would probably be the same as playing on a high school team that won its state championship, and placing near the top of the class would make you the star quarterback.

Consider how many state champion star high school players then get recruited to top college teams, play at elite levels through years of college against the rest of the nation, and are then drafted to the NFL. That would probably be the same as the HLS or top law school students brought into elite firms with a sports law division, who excel during their initial years at the firm, and then finally might be given a chance at the sports law gig.

[Paul Campos]

Fun, exciting, and/or meaningful activities don't become viable career paths just because somebody has stapled the word "law" to them.

See also:

Entertainment
International
Human Rights
Space

[P.J.Fry]

Fun, exciting, and/or meaningful activities don't become viable career paths just because somebody has stapled the word "law" to them.

See also:

Entertainment
International
Human Rights
Space

Similar to my above analogy, I think the following comparisons could be made

Law Student:Entertainment Lawyer::Smee in high school's rendition of Peter Pan:A-list actor
Law Student:International/Human Rights Lawyer::Model UN delegate:Actual UN delegate
Law Student:Space Lawyer::Horse:Unicorn

[wons]

As one of the rare few who has practiced some "sports law", assuming this means having a sports team or related entity as a client, I can assure you that it is precisely like any other type of law. Do you think you get to rub shoulders with Magic Johnson or something? What actually happens is that you interface with the in house counsel at the client, who is generally a guy more or less like you, except 10-20 years older. If you're really lucky, you get to go to the stadium for a meeting. Nothing like the excitement of having a meeting in a conference room in an empty stadium.

Of all the stupid things I've read on this forum, aspiring to practice "sports law" takes the damn cake.

EDIT: And it goes without saying that my firm hasn't hired anyone from Marquette or Tulane since Jerry Ford was President.

[North]

Of all the stupid things I've read on this forum, aspiring to practice "sports law" takes the damn cake.

Yup.

Don't go to law school OP, and especially not these shitty schools.

ETA: I know a guy who went to a school better than Tulane/Marquette to practice "sports law." No joke, he's now a commission-based stadium seating salesman with ~$200,000 of debt to his name.

[P.J.Fry]

I generally assume that when people say they want to practice "sports law," it means they would like to be a player agent or general counsel for a franchise or something to that effect.

[Cal Trask]

http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... it=+sports

Don't go to a law school to do sports law unless you have some serious connections.

[FutureSuperLawyer]

Even if you do get into "sports law" you're going to find it's much more likely to be a low level compliance job at a university than a high paying, exciting job as an agent or with a pro sports team. For example, you may be filling in paperwork to show the gov't the school has just as many female atheletes as male atheletes. If you work for a big university with a great sports program, you'll likely be at a low level working for lawyers who went to top schools and were associates at big law firms (assuming you are even in a legal department). You won't be considered for top jobs because you won't have the practical experience in areas like litigation, transactions, etc. that the top lawyers got at big law firms (if you think Marquette's or Tulane's "experiencial" and "clinical" programs will give you this experience you are very naive). You'll be stuck filing out firms to make sure the school abides by gov't regulations.

If you check with Tulane and Marquette, I think you'll learn that vast majority of their grads who did get jobs in "sports law" were in compliance (and that most did not get jobs in "sports law" at all).

[Dream_weaver32]

I generally assume that when people say they want to practice "sports law," it means they would like to be a player agent or general counsel for a franchise or something to that effect.

Exactly, obviously it's not what I expect straight out of law school, but someday I would love to move in-house with a professional sports league or franchise.