Does law school transparency tell the whole story? Forum

[regulartime]

Hi, I am applying the upcoming cycle and I am trying to determine if my local state tier 4 is a reasonable option based on LST info. I am in the Southern Illinois/St. Louis region. The law schools that are reasonable options distance wise are St. Louis, Washington University, Southern Illinois, and to a lesser extent Mizzou. I am confident that SLU and SIU will be tuition free or close to it, unless my September LSAT score is 10 pts less than my PT average. I am pretty confident that Wash U is in play with money, but can't count on that. Being instate, an LSAT score high enough to score serious scholly money from UIUC would possibly make that move at least worth considering.

I have done a great deal of research. According to law school transparency, SIU has the highest employment score at 70.5% (SLU is at 50.5%, Wash U is at 67%) and the lowest underemployment score at 17.1%. I know that the degree would not be portable, but I want to practice in this area and don't want to move anyway. LST doesn't have salary info for SIU, but the majority of their grads are in firms of 2-25 attorneys and their public service score is between 6 and 7 points higher than the other schools.

At what point and price difference between the schools does choosing the significantly lower ranked school make sense?

Also of note is that I have 12 months of 100% Post 9/11 GI Bill benefits remaining so the first year, I will not be taking out loans for living expenses and am not above assessing my class rank and job chances at the end of the first year and walking away with nothing lost but a year away from work if my outcome looks sketchy.

Thanks

[sideroxylon]

I could be wrong, but I feel like T4 = don't go, even if it would be absolutely free like you're saying

I'm sure that Wash U would be a much better choice.

What do you see yourself doing as a lawyer? I feel like you probably need to assess the career you want, whether it actually exists and then figure out how you get there.

[malleus discentium]

At what point and price difference between the schools does choosing the significantly lower ranked school make sense?

Jobs and cost trump rankings immediately and every time.

[Winston1984]

I could be wrong, but I feel like T4 = don't go, even if it would be absolutely free like you're saying

I'm sure that Wash U would be a much better choice.

What do you see yourself doing as a lawyer? I feel like you probably need to assess the career you want, whether it actually exists and then figure out how you get there.

I don't agree with the never go statement. SIU had drastically different employment outcomes in 2013 and 2012, so I would take that 70%+ score with a huge grain of salt. In this case, I probably wouldn't go there.

[regulartime]

I could be wrong, but I feel like T4 = don't go, even if it would be absolutely free like you're saying

I'm sure that Wash U would be a much better choice.

What do you see yourself doing as a lawyer? I feel like you probably need to assess the career you want, whether it actually exists and then figure out how you get there.

I don't agree with the never go statement. SIU had drastically different employment outcomes in 2013 and 2012, so I would take that 70%+ score with a huge grain of salt. In this case, I probably wouldn't go there.

Thanks for the info. I was not even really considering applying there at all until I saw that score.

[star fox]

Might want to look at 3 year averages to account for one year variances that are going to occur when you're dealing with data that only includes 120-130 students.

[timbs4339]

I second the three-year moving average advice. SIU's FT score for 2012 and 2011 is 50%.

WUSTL is going to give you a better chance at portability and at "big time" jobs. But if you just want to work in a small firm or for local state/government in the area, SIU for free > WUSTL at sticker or with only a small scholly.

[Mack.Hambleton]

just take and retake until you get a full ride at WUSTL and dont worry about it

[sparty99]

Why are you even wasting everyone's time with your ass-a-nine question? It's Wash U or no school. The other schools you mention are garbage. Does law school transparency tell the whole story? No. They don't tell the story of when you go to a T3 or T4 school and graduate with no job. They don't tell the story of you taking a job at starbucks just so you can have health insurance. It doesn't tel the story of you having a job that pays less than what you could have received straight out of undergrad. Quit wating everyone's time. Retake and go to Wash U or better or don't go. It really is that simple.

[downbeat14]

.

[JCougar]

I could be wrong, but I feel like T4 = don't go, even if it would be absolutely free like you're saying

I'm sure that Wash U would be a much better choice.

What do you see yourself doing as a lawyer? I feel like you probably need to assess the career you want, whether it actually exists and then figure out how you get there.

I don't agree with the never go statement. SIU had drastically different employment outcomes in 2013 and 2012, so I would take that 70%+ score with a huge grain of salt. In this case, I probably wouldn't go there.

I don't know a single person that went to SIU that has a decent job. It's a huge scam in an area with not a lot of demand for lawyers. They have to be messing with their employment score to arrive at such a number.

No one I know that went to SLU has a job, either.

[DoveBodyWash]

oh God...go to WashU over these schools.

[wingding]

At what point and price difference between the schools does choosing the significantly lower ranked school make sense?

1) only choose a "significantly lower ranked school" if it's free, and living expenses will be minimal
2) don't go too much lower. If it's not T14, and not a regional flagship, you'll be struggling for a job. In larger markets, you can justify going to the next in line, but certainly not lower than that (in Boston or NYC, the third ranked school is still ok). In some markets (e.g. Jersey), even the state flagship is a bad idea

[TTRansfer]

At what point and price difference between the schools does choosing the significantly lower ranked school make sense?

1) only choose a "significantly lower ranked school" if it's free, and living expenses will be minimal
2) don't go too much lower. If it's not T14, and not a regional flagship, you'll be struggling for a job. In larger markets, you can justify going to the next in line, but certainly not lower than that (in Boston or NYC, the third ranked school is still ok). In some markets (e.g. Jersey), even the state flagship is a bad idea

tcr

[slayerhn]

Going to post my experience.

I go to a T50 school on scholarship. Before I chose to go here, I saw that it was 18-19% biglaw, and I was happy with that. I easily made top ten percent. However, I misunderstood what LST means. It doesn't mean the top 18% get biglaw, it means 18% of the class gets biglaw. I struck out on OCI, perhaps because of my personality, my interview skills, or just bad luck. I wish I had realized this before.

[whitespider]

Going to post my experience.

I go to a T50 school on scholarship. Before I chose to go here, I saw that it was 18-19% biglaw, and I was happy with that. I easily made top ten percent. However, I misunderstood what LST means. It doesn't mean the top 18% get biglaw, it means 18% of the class gets biglaw. I struck out on OCI, perhaps because of my personality, my interview skills, or just bad luck. I wish I had realized this before.

OCI for what? 1L summer internship?

9 months ago you said you were a 1L at SMU.

[TTRansfer]

Going to post my experience.

I go to a T50 school on scholarship. Before I chose to go here, I saw that it was 18-19% biglaw, and I was happy with that. I easily made top ten percent. However, I misunderstood what LST means. It doesn't mean the top 18% get biglaw, it means 18% of the class gets biglaw. I struck out on OCI, perhaps because of my personality, my interview skills, or just bad luck. I wish I had realized this before.

OCI for what? 1L summer internship?

9 months ago you said you were a 1L at SMU.

And OCI is going on now, so it's possible he already struck out at 2L OCI.

[whitespider]

2L OCI can start in August? Man that's brutal. Didn't realize it was that quick.

[Mal Reynolds]

2L OCI can start in August? Man that's brutal. Didn't realize it was that quick.

That's not quick that's normal.

[Mal Reynolds]

No matter what the stats say, you do NOT go to a t50 for biglaw.

[TTRansfer]

2L OCI can start in August? Man that's brutal. Didn't realize it was that quick.

I don't know any OCI that doesn't start in August. I was going to interviews at the middle/beginning of August.

[Louis1127]

Going to post my experience.

I go to a T50 school on scholarship. Before I chose to go here, I saw that it was 18-19% biglaw, and I was happy with that. I easily made top ten percent. However, I misunderstood what LST means. It doesn't mean the top 18% get biglaw, it means 18% of the class gets biglaw. I struck out on OCI, perhaps because of my personality, my interview skills, or just bad luck. I wish I had realized this before.

Was your T50 in your home region?

[slayerhn]

Going to post my experience.

I go to a T50 school on scholarship. Before I chose to go here, I saw that it was 18-19% biglaw, and I was happy with that. I easily made top ten percent. However, I misunderstood what LST means. It doesn't mean the top 18% get biglaw, it means 18% of the class gets biglaw. I struck out on OCI, perhaps because of my personality, my interview skills, or just bad luck. I wish I had realized this before.

Was your T50 in your home region?

Yes. That was the sole reason I came here instead of a higher ranked school.

[Louis1127]

Going to post my experience.

I go to a T50 school on scholarship. Before I chose to go here, I saw that it was 18-19% biglaw, and I was happy with that. I easily made top ten percent. However, I misunderstood what LST means. It doesn't mean the top 18% get biglaw, it means 18% of the class gets biglaw. I struck out on OCI, perhaps because of my personality, my interview skills, or just bad luck. I wish I had realized this before.

Was your T50 in your home region?

Yes. That was the sole reason I came here instead of a higher ranked school.

OK. FTR, I asked because if you had said no, I was going to suggest that that could be an explanation.