Texas vs. Vandy Forum

[Zeeguy91]

Topic says it all. Just got in off the wait list at Vandy, but I have been deposited at UT. I'm having bit of trouble deciding between them because I'm impressed with both.

UT is giving me $72k. Total cost of tuition should be at $75k for 3 years.
Vandy is giving me $65k. Total cost of tuition should be at around $87k for the three years.

Mostly interested in job prospects across the country (i.e. which will give me a more mobile degree), the living experience, and which will likely give me a more rounded education.

I would like to go out west ultimately (i.e. L.A. or San Francisco), but New York is somewhere I wouldn't mind living. I am mostly concerned with where I'll be able to find a good job (which might give UT's connections in Texas a slight edge). Though, I don't want to be boxed into any particular state.

Note: I'm still on the wait list at Cornell and Georgetown

[kobe1020]

Topic says it all. Just got in off the wait list at Vandy, but I have been deposited at UT. I'm having bait of trouble deciding between them because I'm impressed with both.

UT is giving me $72k
Vandy is giving me $65k.

Note: I'm still on the wait list at Cornell and Georgetown

Did you submit LOI to UT?

[Zeeguy91]

Topic says it all. Just got in off the wait list at Vandy, but I have been deposited at UT. I'm having bait of trouble deciding between them because I'm impressed with both.

UT is giving me $72k
Vandy is giving me $65k.

Note: I'm still on the wait list at Cornell and Georgetown

Did you submit LOI to UT?

Yes. But I was told that I didn't have to withdraw from the wait lists I was on. Only that I couldn't make any concurrent deposits at schools I had been accepted to at that time.

[Ricky-Bobby]

In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:

-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT

[BigZuck]

Gotta answer Ricky's questions

However, this seems like one of those "None of the above" answers. You should probably go to UCLA/USC or a T14. UT or Vandy to get a job in CA or have geographic mobility doesn't really make a lot of sense. If you were strongly interested in TX or the south then it might be a different story.

[Kool-Aid]

The price tag for both is good but I wouldn't be comfortable attending UT with those goals. You sound like you should aim for a T-14, so maybe retake/reapply.

[El Principe]

These sounded like good ideas until I realized you said cost of "tuition" and not cost of "attendance". Assuming that remains true, I'd probably retake. However, both of these options are pretty nice if your COA was at that level, although I'm sure you'd get into some better schools if you had the numbers for scholarships of that magnitude.

[Ricky-Bobby]

You left out cost of living from your cost calculation. That's going to add around $20k a year to your totals.

Like Big Zuck and others have said, neither of these schools will reliably get you to CA. Less than 5% of the UT class of 2013 went to California after graduation. Do you really want to try to be in that group without ties to the area? Think of all of the CA law schools. Do you want to compete against all of them from Texas or Vandy?

Give up on the idea of "mobile" law degrees. LST shows that even the supposedly-mobile T14 largely place in their own areas.

If you haven't yet, check out lawschooltransparency.com.

eta: leaving out your LSAT score just tells me you know you'll get told to retake.

[TheSpanishMain]

Give up on the idea of "mobile" law degrees. LST shows that even the supposedly-mobile T14 largely place in their own areas.

It's hard to say how much of that is self selection, though. For example, do people from Berkeley mostly work in California because that's the only place they can find work, or do people attend Berkeley because they want to work in California?

Anyway, yeah, OP, neither at these prices/for your goals.

[Ricky-Bobby]

Give up on the idea of "mobile" law degrees. LST shows that even the supposedly-mobile T14 largely place in their own areas.

It's hard to say how much of that is self selection, though. For example, do people from Berkeley mostly work in California because that's the only place they can find work, or do people attend Berkeley because they want to work in California?

Anyway, yeah, OP, neither at these prices/for your goals.

I can see this, but I'm sure the network doesn't hurt. I know that more CA forms show up to Berk ' OCI than Penn's. Self-selection probably plays a role in students who come in and where they go. Obviously I'm just inferring all of this from data though.

[Mal Reynolds]

Give up on the idea of "mobile" law degrees. LST shows that even the supposedly-mobile T14 largely place in their own areas.

It's hard to say how much of that is self selection, though. For example, do people from Berkeley mostly work in California because that's the only place they can find work, or do people attend Berkeley because they want to work in California?

Anyway, yeah, OP, neither at these prices/for your goals.

I can see this, but I'm sure the network doesn't hurt. I know that more CA forms show up to Berk ' OCI than Penn's. Self-selection probably plays a role in students who come in and where they go. Obviously I'm just inferring all of this from data though.

I don't think that's a very good inference. ~28% of UChicago students stay in Illinois and then ~16 in CA and NY. That's a huge number going elsewhere.

[Ricky-Bobby]

I was thinking HYS might be the exception, but I guess I can add Chicago to that list. All the rest seem to put a majority into their own region.

[TheSpanishMain]

Give up on the idea of "mobile" law degrees. LST shows that even the supposedly-mobile T14 largely place in their own areas.

It's hard to say how much of that is self selection, though. For example, do people from Berkeley mostly work in California because that's the only place they can find work, or do people attend Berkeley because they want to work in California?

Anyway, yeah, OP, neither at these prices/for your goals.

I can see this, but I'm sure the network doesn't hurt. I know that more CA forms show up to Berk ' OCI than Penn's. Self-selection probably plays a role in students who come in and where they go. Obviously I'm just inferring all of this from data though.

Yeah, I'm sure it plays SOME role, and obviously it's not a binary thing. There are degrees of national mobility. I still would be surprised, though, if a Duke grad with decent grades had a really hard time getting LA BigLaw, for example.

[Mal Reynolds]

Give up on the idea of "mobile" law degrees. LST shows that even the supposedly-mobile T14 largely place in their own areas.

If you haven't yet, check out lawschooltransparency.com.

You are both pretty wrong on this one. Even down to the lower t14 there is quite a bit of mobility.

NU: 36% IL, 21% NY, 13% CA
Duke: NC 11%, 20% NY, 14% DC
Michigan: 17% NY, 15% IL, 12% MI

If you dig a little deeper into Duke, it looks like 11%+ go to the "West" which is defined as AK, HI, CA, NV, WA, OR, AZ, NM, UT, CO, WY, ID, MT. That is obviously self selection because people aren't likely to choose duke if they primarily want to work out west. But the numbers, especially for t14s not with a major market really sport portable degrees.

[Ricky-Bobby]

Maybe this is backtracking, and if it is I'll accept that I was wrong, but I don't consider NY to be out of any school's region. It's no secret that NYC is the easiest market to get biglaw in. So I just see all of those in their general regions and NY.

I probably just made shitty inferences. Wouldn't be the first time.

[Mal Reynolds]

Maybe this is backtracking, and if it is I'll accept that I was wrong, but I don't consider NY to be out of any school's region. It's no secret that NYC is the easiest market to get biglaw in. So I just see all of those in their general regions and NY.

I probably just made shitty inferences. Wouldn't be the first time.

Well that is major backtracking. Also the schools I listed all have 20%+ going to states other than NY. And those are just the two next most popular states. I really don't get how you're getting regionalism from those numbers.

[Zeeguy91]

Hey all, thanks for your thoughts. As many of you have said, I should give you all the information I can, so I'll now address some of the questions you've asked.

-) I am from Baltimore. Maryland. I have family ties in New York City (my sister lives there), and, as I've said, would ultimately want to settle either in California (L.A. or San Fran) or New York City.

-) TLS estimated the additional costs of living/travel, books, health insurance, etc. to be at about 24k. I still need to find a quote for UT.

-) I will not be taking out loans. The cost of attendance will be covered by my family.

-) I stated that I was mainly interested in pursuing immigration law in my application (for which I saw Texas as being highly ranked), but I am considering other fields (BigLaw, Environmental, International, Entertainment).

-) I received my B.A. in Government and Politics from the University of Maryland, College Park. My undergraduate GPA was a 3.5 and my LSAT was a 167. I have only taken the LSAT once.

-) Also, as a question to you guys, would you find that the "name" and prestige of Vanderbilt might open up some additional doors or would it be irrelevant (at least to employers who would probably know that Texas and Vandy are essentially tied in rankings)?

[BigZuck]

Neither school makes sense given your ties/career goals. As I said before, you should go to a T14 or at the very least UCLA/USC.

[cannibal ox]

-) TLS estimated the additional costs of living/travel, books, health insurance, etc. to be at about 24k. I still need to find a quote for UT.

https://www.utexas.edu/law/finaid/costs/

Don't go to UT if you aren't comfortable working in Texas, which is not a place you listed as wanting to settle.

words words words words prestige words words words

Retake and go to to a T14.

[Kool-Aid]

You need to assume median at both and that's not a good place to be at Texas w/out ties. I can't speak to Vandy, but it can't be much better.

You should probably retake...good luck!

[Zeeguy91]

Well, I should be hearing an update from Georgetown by tomorrow. I'll let you guys know what happens. Also, I'm still wait listed at Cornell, so I still have a chance there.

Plus, there's always the possibility of transfer. I don't think it would be that hard to transfer from Texas or Vandy to a T14 school.

I'll consider retaking as well, though.

[Mal Reynolds]

Plus, there's always the possibility of transfer. I don't think it would be that hard to transfer from Texas or Vandy to a T14 school.

LOL

[Zeeguy91]

Plus, there's always the possibility of transfer. I don't think it would be that hard to transfer from Texas or Vandy to a T14 school.

LOL

Is that...not a possibility? I knew a lot of people who did that.

[Mal Reynolds]

Plus, there's always the possibility of transfer. I don't think it would be that hard to transfer from Texas or Vandy to a T14 school.

LOL

Is that...not a possibility? I knew a lot of people who did that.

It's a possibility. Just not a likely one. But sure make a huge financial gamble on taking law school exams that are graded on a curve with people just as smart and hard working as you.

[BigZuck]

Well, I should be hearing an update from Georgetown by tomorrow. I'll let you guys know what happens. Also, I'm still wait listed at Cornell, so I still have a chance there.

Plus, there's always the possibility of transfer. I don't think it would be that hard to transfer from Texas or Vandy to a T14 school.

I'll consider retaking as well, though.

What kind of scholarship did USC offer you? You can't just go there this year?