No Ties Forum

[should-i-do-it]

Hopefully I can improve enough and go to WUSTL so it won't be that big of an issue but in case I don't. Would going to a school like UIUC/Iowa/Wisconsin without ties to that state be a terrible option. I'm from Kansas but don't want to stay here.

[blsnared]

Given the limited information that you have provided, it is doubtful that you will receive a response worthy of serious consideration. The worthiness of whatever institution you are considering is dependent upon what it will cost you and the probability of employment following graduation.

Why do you want to leave Kansas? Is Iowa really any different? There is really no context to my response but my initial reaction is that if you want to leave Kansas for the sake of it being Kansas, you won't really find anything that different in Iowa or Wisconsin. I could be wrong, but I'm currently under the impression that unless you are going to a school that is highly recognized, going to a regional school should be damn near free to warrant the risk.

I'm going to say that yes, it is a terrible option. However, only you know your reasons and circumstances; you are really the only one that can answer that given the information you provided.

[sublime]

..

[should-i-do-it]

Ideally Chicago, but any decent sized Midwestern city would do (Milwaukee, Indy, Columbus, KC). I would have zero debt from anywhere I graduate. I'm simply trying to figure out would going to a state school like the ones mentioned plus IU/Ohio State be a bad idea if I'm not from there.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Not everyone on TLS agrees with this, but I went to a regional school and I think that doing so can create ties to that region. You need to make the effort during school to network/get to know people in the region, but if you're there, it's a lot easier to do that (intern/extern wherever you can whenever you can during the school year, for instance, as well as join the local bar association and Inn of Court and go to meetings and meet people and so on). Is it better to have preexisting ties? Probably, but going to the local flagship gives you three years to create ties. (I think it actually does so better than going to a better school - there are enough good reasons to go to, say, Michigan or UVA that doing so doesn't convince employers you're going there because you want to work in Michigan or Virginia. But there aren't nearly as many reasons to go to, say, UIUC unless you want to be somewhere in Illinois.)

This is leaving aside the question of cost and employment opportunities and so on, and speaking purely to the ties question. It may or may not be worth you going to one of the schools you mention for cost/employment opportunities, but that's a different consideration.

(also, for the earliest poster who asked if there was anything different about Iowa or Wisconsin compared to Kansas, the various midwestern states aren't actually interchangeable.)

[kd5]

(also, for the earliest poster who asked if there was anything different about Iowa or Wisconsin compared to Kansas, the various midwestern states aren't actually interchangeable.)

QFT.

[sublime]

..

[BigZuck]

I think what Nony said is fair. However, in this economy it's not something I personally would chance, especially if you're from a state that has one of those bizarre rivalries with the state of the law school you're thinking of attending. For example, if you're from Kansas but everyone from Kansas thinks Oklahoma and its citizens are terrible and vice versa, then I wouldn't go to OU for law school. Even if your desire to live and work in Oklahoma is genuine, it might be an uphill battle convincing Oklahomans that you're not just another dirty Kansan.* There are only so many jobs to go around.

*I have no idea if this rivalry actually exists between these two specific states

[deadpanic]

What Zuck said.

If you end up doing really really well grade wise, you will probably have a good outcome. But if you just end up doing pretty good--say top 25-30%, at that point you will lose out on the small firm job to the local kid, even if the local kid is at median. The way legal hiring is, especially at one of these regional schools, there is no way I would take this risk.

[A. Nony Mouse]

What Zuck said.

If you end up doing really really well grade wise, you will probably have a good outcome. But if you just end up doing pretty good--say top 25-30%, at that point you will lose out on the small firm job to the local kid, even if the local kid is at median. The way legal hiring is, especially at one of these regional schools, there is no way I would take this risk.

Eh, I don't think that's entirely true. I think it depends on what the person does while they're there, besides just attending school.

[deadpanic]

What Zuck said.

If you end up doing really really well grade wise, you will probably have a good outcome. But if you just end up doing pretty good--say top 25-30%, at that point you will lose out on the small firm job to the local kid, even if the local kid is at median. The way legal hiring is, especially at one of these regional schools, there is no way I would take this risk.

Eh, I don't think that's entirely true. I think it depends on what the person does while they're there, besides just attending school.

You're absolutely right. I just think it puts you in an unnecessary uphill battle. There are a lot of stars that have to align even if you do the right networking.

[rad lulz]

I.

[de5igual]

If you don't have any ties wait for a brooks bros sale you can get some good ones for cheap

until you pay down those student loans, there's this http://www.thetiebar.com/

[transferror]

Nony is right that being at the school can show your desire to work in the region, but you will need to be able to articulate "why" that school and why that city/region, even if those two seem to be the same answer. The other problem with trying to establish ties by virtue of mere attendance is that you will need to solidify your desire to be in a particular market by working there during the summer after your 1L year, which could put you in a tough situation (paying job elsewhere vs. unpaid internship in target market).

Also, it will be easier to attend a regional that at least feeds a large market. For example, it will be relatively easy to attend UIUC and explain "why Chicago?", b/c it's fucking Chicago, you're from the midwest, and working in Chi is the dream. It is far more difficult, however, to apply the same rationale to Des Moines, and I suspect that non-Chicago midwestern markets will be more insular and schools like Iowa and Wisconsin will be attended by more locals since they don't, per se, really feed any major market. At those schools, it will be even more difficult to beat out the locals for jobs than at a regional that feeds a major/large secondary market.

Disclaimer: Attending a regional/local school in a large secondary market w/o ties and it has been extremely difficult. I was offered a fantastic, paid position for this summer several states away from the school and almost turned it down (maybe should have) for a shitty position in the market my school is in. I might regret it at OCI.

[should-i-do-it]

Thanks for all the input so far. Like I said earlier, hopefully I can improve enough in September to where I'll have much better choices. Just wanted to hear your opinions in case I don't.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

Disclaimer: Attending a regional/local school in a large secondary market w/o ties and it has been extremely difficult.

Interested in this. So your going into 2L but found getting a 1L summer gig really difficult? Mind elaborating? I'll PM you later if it's not something you wanna share with thread.

[transferror]

Disclaimer: Attending a regional/local school in a large secondary market w/o ties and it has been extremely difficult.

Interested in this. So your going into 2L but found getting a 1L summer gig really difficult? Mind elaborating? I'll PM you later if it's not something you wanna share with thread.

PM me

[Tygra]

Disclaimer: Attending a regional/local school in a large secondary market w/o ties and it has been extremely difficult.

Interested in this. So your going into 2L but found getting a 1L summer gig really difficult? Mind elaborating? I'll PM you later if it's not something you wanna share with thread.

PM me

Would you mind if I PM'd you too?

[transferror]

Disclaimer: Attending a regional/local school in a large secondary market w/o ties and it has been extremely difficult.

Interested in this. So your going into 2L but found getting a 1L summer gig really difficult? Mind elaborating? I'll PM you later if it's not something you wanna share with thread.

PM me

Would you mind if I PM'd you too?

come one, come all