UVA or NU ??? -- Please Help! Forum

[yosup]

just got off from WL @ NU, need to decide in 24 hours... >_<

Situation:

Northwestern: $105K scholarship vs. UVA: $105K scholarship

My basic info:

International (Chinese)

College: PKU in China, Major: Biology

Master's Degree: Biomedical Science/Immunology from Washington University in St. Louis

3+ years full time working experience as a Scientist at a biotech company in San Diego

Areas of interest: IP/Patent litigation, perferably in west coast

Personally not a big fan for staying 3 years in a college town, but not that concerned about the location issue, as long as it won't be a serious bummer in professional networking...

With those scholarship, money is not an issue at hand in this comparison. I'm mostly concerned about the job placement in IP lit area especially in west coast. So if anyone could share some wisdom on this particular criterion that'll be really helpful!

Many thanks!

PS: And no, Berk and Stanford are out of the question (rejected me >_<)... UW/USC/UCLA: didn't apply coz they're out of T14...

[splitmuch]

just got off from WL @ NU, need to decide in 24 hours... >_<

Situation:

Northwestern: $105K scholarship vs. UVA: $105K scholarship

My basic info:

International (Chinese)

College: PKU in China, Major: Biology

Master's Degree: Biomedical Science/Immunology from Washington University in St. Louis

3+ years full time working experience as a Scientist at a biotech company in San Diego

Areas of interest: IP/Patent litigation, perferably in west coast

Personally not a big fan for staying 3 years in a college town, but not that concerned about the location issue, as long as it won't be a serious bummer in professional networking...

With those scholarship, money is not an issue at hand in this comparison. I'm mostly concerned about the job placement in IP lit area especially in west coast. So if anyone could share some wisdom on this particular criterion that'll be really helpful!

Many thanks!

PS: And no, Berk and Stanford are out of the question (rejected me >_<)... UW/USC/UCLA: didn't apply coz they're out of T14...

Northwestern is now giving 6 figure scholarships to people getting in off the waitlist? I applied 3 years early.

To your problem, job prospects are probably pretty similar, anecdotally I know lots of people at NU who did well getting out to Cali. I think this really comes down to where you want to live for 3 yrs, Durham or Chicago. Given the limited info about your background, I would imagine that would be chicago.

[chuckbass]

To your problem, job prospects are probably pretty similar, anecdotally I know lots of people at NU who did well getting out to Cali. I think this really comes down to where you want to live for 3 yrs, Durham or Chicago. Given the limited info about your background, I would imagine that would be chicago.

Commuting from Durham to Charlottesville every day would suck

[yosup]

Thank you very much!

Ummmm...UVa is in Charlottesville, not Durham...but that's not material...

just got off from WL @ NU, need to decide in 24 hours... >_<

Situation:

Northwestern: $105K scholarship vs. UVA: $105K scholarship

My basic info:

International (Chinese)

College: PKU in China, Major: Biology

Master's Degree: Biomedical Science/Immunology from Washington University in St. Louis

3+ years full time working experience as a Scientist at a biotech company in San Diego

Areas of interest: IP/Patent litigation, perferably in west coast

Personally not a big fan for staying 3 years in a college town, but not that concerned about the location issue, as long as it won't be a serious bummer in professional networking...

With those scholarship, money is not an issue at hand in this comparison. I'm mostly concerned about the job placement in IP lit area especially in west coast. So if anyone could share some wisdom on this particular criterion that'll be really helpful!

Many thanks!

PS: And no, Berk and Stanford are out of the question (rejected me >_<)... UW/USC/UCLA: didn't apply coz they're out of T14...

Northwestern is now giving 6 figure scholarships to people getting in off the waitlist? I applied 3 years early.

To your problem, job prospects are probably pretty similar, anecdotally I know lots of people at NU who did well getting out to Cali. I think this really comes down to where you want to live for 3 yrs, Durham or Chicago. Given the limited info about your background, I would imagine that would be chicago.

[chuckbass]

I agree, this really comes down to where you want to live and just which overall vibe you think would suit you better. Personally I'd choose NU just because I'd much rather live in the city. There's really no bad choice to be made.

[yosup]

thanks a lot~ appreciate your help

As for the vibe, I'm assuming - correct me if I'm wrong - located in downtown Chicago + Kellogg's influence NU people might be more career-driven/pragmatic/suit-n-tie type with little campus/community feel? While UVA somehow gives me this very earthy feeling, more campus feel, super nice people, but probably isolated from real world internship/externship/etc. opportunities thus not quite sure what they wanna do with their degree once graduate?

No offense to anyone (sorry NUers and UVAers), just wanna find out more relevant info. to help making my decision...

I agree, this really comes down to where you want to live and just which overall vibe you think would suit you better. Personally I'd choose NU just because I'd much rather live in the city. There's really no bad choice to be made.

[igo2northwestern]

thanks a lot~ appreciate your help

As for the vibe, I'm assuming - correct me if I'm wrong - located in downtown Chicago + Kellogg's influence NU people might be more career-driven/pragmatic/suit-n-tie type with little campus/community feel? While UVA somehow gives me this very earthy feeling, more campus feel, super nice people, but probably isolated from real world internship/externship/etc. opportunities thus not quite sure what they wanna do with their degree once graduate?

No offense to anyone (sorry NUers and UVAers), just wanna find out more relevant info. to help making my decision...

I agree, this really comes down to where you want to live and just which overall vibe you think would suit you better. Personally I'd choose NU just because I'd much rather live in the city. There's really no bad choice to be made.

NU's culture is not suit and tie at all, outside of OCI interviewing. Though I should mention that if you wanted to do a NDIL/appellate judicial externship or fed/states attorney externship, even during the school year (getting course credit + lit experience), you could commute very easily since the courthouse is in the heart of Chicago.

People here are friendly and chill. I think if I were to sum up the culture of NU, it would be a group of people, many of whom are older/have work experience, who understand that there are other priorities apart from out-competing your classmates for grades and jobs. People here will often go out for a beer on the town, and the folks in Chicago exude the Midwestern friendly feel.

I should add that the APALSA community here is huge, and the student organization is one of the best in the country in terms of it's structure, events, etc. There is also an enormous Chinese LLM group every year--last yeah it was 50.

One last pretty important, and overlooked plus, is that any class under 40 students is uncurved. This means that, apart from your 1L core classes, you have the choice to have a less grade focused time throughout 2L and 3L (and many people do).

Edit: as for living, you could stay further from the school for cheap ($600) or live for sub-$1400 rent in a high rise with a doorman, indoor tennis courts, gym, and pool 2 blocks from the law school. It's super nice, and as someone who has lived in NY, SF, and LA, it's impossible to get these prices anywhere else.

[PDaddy]

Northwestern is now giving 6 figure scholarships to people getting in off the waitlist? I applied 3 years early.

To your problem, job prospects are probably pretty similar, anecdotally I know lots of people at NU who did well getting out to Cali. I think this really comes down to where you want to live for 3 yrs, Durham or Chicago. Given the limited info about your background, I would imagine that would be chicago.

I was shocked that someone from the WL got a dime! Their WL letters state explicitly that WL'd applicants are not likely to get any money, let alone what amounts to a 75% ride!

Shocking!

I say go to NU. Great environment, mature classmates, cool library, convenient access to everything, great business school and other schools, cool city!

Don't expect much in he way of campus activity per se, but that's the cool thing. It's such an "adult" school. You will likely spend less time at the school and rely more on the city for recreation. But what a city...

Btw, OP really should have applied to the three schools he passed on (UW, UCLA and USC), but NU probably would have been the best deal.

[ymmv]

I'd choose NU in a heartbeat because of fit. And Chicago. But really only you know yourself well enough to make this kind of determination.

[pertristis]

NU. Beautiful campus, beautiful city.

[yosup]

Thanks a lot! Those info. you provided really help!

thanks a lot~ appreciate your help

As for the vibe, I'm assuming - correct me if I'm wrong - located in downtown Chicago + Kellogg's influence NU people might be more career-driven/pragmatic/suit-n-tie type with little campus/community feel? While UVA somehow gives me this very earthy feeling, more campus feel, super nice people, but probably isolated from real world internship/externship/etc. opportunities thus not quite sure what they wanna do with their degree once graduate?

No offense to anyone (sorry NUers and UVAers), just wanna find out more relevant info. to help making my decision...

I agree, this really comes down to where you want to live and just which overall vibe you think would suit you better. Personally I'd choose NU just because I'd much rather live in the city. There's really no bad choice to be made.

NU's culture is not suit and tie at all, outside of OCI interviewing. Though I should mention that if you wanted to do a NDIL/appellate judicial externship or fed/states attorney externship, even during the school year (getting course credit + lit experience), you could commute very easily since the courthouse is in the heart of Chicago.

People here are friendly and chill. I think if I were to sum up the culture of NU, it would be a group of people, many of whom are older/have work experience, who understand that there are other priorities apart from out-competing your classmates for grades and jobs. People here will often go out for a beer on the town, and the folks in Chicago exude the Midwestern friendly feel.

I should add that the APALSA community here is huge, and the student organization is one of the best in the country in terms of it's structure, events, etc. There is also an enormous Chinese LLM group every year--last yeah it was 50.

One last pretty important, and overlooked plus, is that any class under 40 students is uncurved. This means that, apart from your 1L core classes, you have the choice to have a less grade focused time throughout 2L and 3L (and many people do).

Edit: as for living, you could stay further from the school for cheap ($600) or live for sub-$1400 rent in a high rise with a doorman, indoor tennis courts, gym, and pool 2 blocks from the law school. It's super nice, and as someone who has lived in NY, SF, and LA, it's impossible to get these prices anywhere else.

[rayiner]

I echo the comments about fit. My initial inclination was to say UVA would be be cheaper, but it looks like their tuition is now more than NU (it was substantially less than NU's in 2009). So I think the cost will be similar: note that NU's breakdown excludes health insurance, and UVA's excludes GradPLUS loan fees, which are of similar magnitude.

I would go to NU in your position. We have a very strong asian community as well as a large number of people from the west coast. Also, by virtue of the work experience requirement, I think we have a disproportionate number of engineers.

[yosup]

OP is a she

I was actually a bit confused why NU wl'ed me at the first place. Both my lsat and gpa are above their 75% with WE ( 3+ yrs in the states + 2 yrs in China) plus advanced degree... it hurts to hear "someone from the WL", I guess that's one of the reasons I lean on UVA, who admitted me early January and offered me $105K beginning of March.

Northwestern is now giving 6 figure scholarships to people getting in off the waitlist? I applied 3 years early.

To your problem, job prospects are probably pretty similar, anecdotally I know lots of people at NU who did well getting out to Cali. I think this really comes down to where you want to live for 3 yrs, Durham or Chicago. Given the limited info about your background, I would imagine that would be chicago.

I was shocked that someone from the WL got a dime! Their WL letters state explicitly that WL'd applicants are not likely to get any money, let alone what amounts to a 75% ride!

Shocking!

I say go to NU. Great environment, mature classmates, cool library, convenient access to everything, great business school and other schools, cool city!

Don't expect much in he way of campus activity per se, but that's the cool thing. It's such an "adult" school. You will likely spend less time at the school and rely more on the city for recreation. But what a city...

Btw, OP really should have applied to the three schools he passed on (UW, UCLA and USC), but NU probably would have been the best deal.

[rayiner]

Did you apply late? I don't think NU yield protects.

[yosup]

No, I submitted all my applications before Thanksgiving...

There's only one thing I could possibly come up with: NU (JD program) does not like internationals (not permanent resident, not citizen)? But again, UVA seems to be the all-time-least-diversified T14 with only 14 internationals out of 1100 current JD students... So why...

Did you apply late? I don't think NU yield protects.

[Power_of_Facing]

No, I submitted all my applications before Thanksgiving...

There's only one thing I could possibly come up with: NU (JD program) does not like internationals (not permanent resident, not citizen)? But again, UVA seems to be the all-time-least-diversified T14 with only 14 internationals out of 1100 current JD students... So why...

Did you apply late? I don't think NU yield protects.

Super weird.

Did NU "feel things out" with you before offering you the scholly?

This sounds awfully yield protective, but as others have said, awfully yield protective doesn't sound like NU.

At any rate I'd choose NU because of fit, and I might try to negotiate 10-20K more based on the UVA acceptance (leverage your dismay at the initial waitlist)...

[yosup]

btw, I told NU this is gonna be a life-changing decision for me which simply cannot be made within 24 hours (C'mon, seriously?) and they kindly extended their offer till next Wednesday. So, welcome more comments. Please share your experience (if you happened to be at one of these two schools) or thoughts (anyone) or any advice. Thanks a lot!

[yosup]

Sort of... they sent out a second wave of emails asking if we still wanna be kept on their WL and told us to fill out a response form online before May 2x (can't remember the exact date), which just simply slipped my mind... On June xx I happened to clear my inbox and crossed this email and immediately filled out that response form. A week later, they admitted me with scholly...

No, I submitted all my applications before Thanksgiving...

There's only one thing I could possibly come up with: NU (JD program) does not like internationals (not permanent resident, not citizen)? But again, UVA seems to be the all-time-least-diversified T14 with only 14 internationals out of 1100 current JD students... So why...

Did you apply late? I don't think NU yield protects.

Super weird.

Did NU "feel things out" with you before offering you the scholly?

This sounds awfully yield protective, but as others have said, awfully yield protective doesn't sound like NU.

At any rate I'd choose NU because of fit, and I might try to negotiate 10-20K more based on the UVA acceptance (leverage your dismay at the initial waitlist)...

[rayiner]

btw, I told NU this is gonna be a life-changing decision for me which simply cannot be made within 24 hours (C'mon, seriously?) and they kindly extended their offer till next Wednesday. So, welcome more comments. Please share your experience (if you happened to be at one of these two schools) or thoughts (anyone) or any advice. Thanks a lot!

I'm sure someone else will chime in with a pro-UVA story, but here is my pro-NU one. I have my general grievances with the law school model, tuition, etc, but all those things aside, I absolutely loved my time at NU. I chose between NU and GULC, and went to NU because of my gut feeling. In three years I grew to love Chicago, my classmates, and the school. People are, relatively, laid back, mature, and more pragmatic than academic.

Things have changed a bit since Dean van Zandt left, some for the better and some for the worse. I like DVZ much more as a person, but there was a lot of faculty conflict behind the scenes that I think D-Rod is working on ameliorating.

On a purely practical note, I think NU's firm placement is a little better, once you account for JD-MBA's opting out of law, while UVA's clerkship placement is a little better. But these are at the margins, and I think entirely a function of location.

[PDaddy]

You will love the administration at NU, especially Dean Johann Lee. I interviewed with him years ago, and he was one of the coolest people in the world.

He is Asian, and he is very committed to ensuring that students of color (as well as the general student population) have the most pleasant educational experience and have access to every possible opportunity.

Have you met him?

[Big Dog]

for an international, NU is a no-brainer. Much, much easier travel if nothing else. And a big city. Both will place similarly into Calif IP, with maybe a slight edge to NU. (quite a few alums in NorCal, in particular)

[igo2northwestern]

OP is a she

I was actually a bit confused why NU wl'ed me at the first place. Both my lsat and gpa are above their 75% with WE ( 3+ yrs in the states + 2 yrs in China) plus advanced degree... it hurts to hear "someone from the WL", I guess that's one of the reasons I lean on UVA, who admitted me early January and offered me $105K beginning of March.

OP, I wouldn't focus on the timing so much; I understand though that you might feel slighted. The reason why I say this is because Admissions is very removed from your life as a student in law school. Once you're in, you're in. And at this point, it is more important to assess whether you'll enjoy the community, the surrounding environment, housing situation, academic life, etc. Still, if you're concerned about NU's treatment of international students, I think the fact that there were 50 international Chinese LLM students this past year might change your opinion.

I forgot to mention before, Chicago has a Chinatown if Chinese food is important to you. (from what I understand, a lot of my Chinese friends here appreciate it). There's also this one Sichuan place I went to a few months ago (not Lao Sze Chuan) -- it was amazing. hmm... I wonder what the name of it was..

[yosup]

Thanks a lot for sharing your great experience at NU! Helps a lot

btw, I told NU this is gonna be a life-changing decision for me which simply cannot be made within 24 hours (C'mon, seriously?) and they kindly extended their offer till next Wednesday. So, welcome more comments. Please share your experience (if you happened to be at one of these two schools) or thoughts (anyone) or any advice. Thanks a lot!

I'm sure someone else will chime in with a pro-UVA story, but here is my pro-NU one. I have my general grievances with the law school model, tuition, etc, but all those things aside, I absolutely loved my time at NU. I chose between NU and GULC, and went to NU because of my gut feeling. In three years I grew to love Chicago, my classmates, and the school. People are, relatively, laid back, mature, and more pragmatic than academic.

Things have changed a bit since Dean van Zandt left, some for the better and some for the worse. I like DVZ much more as a person, but there was a lot of faculty conflict behind the scenes that I think D-Rod is working on ameliorating.

On a purely practical note, I think NU's firm placement is a little better, once you account for JD-MBA's opting out of law, while UVA's clerkship placement is a little better. But these are at the margins, and I think entirely a function of location.

[yosup]

Thank you for sharing this lovely piece of info. It's great to know NU is culturally open-minded

No, I haven't got a chance to meet with Dean Johann Lee. But the adcom (Ms.Tara Adams) who interviewed me was super nice!

You will love the administration at NU, especially Dean Johann Lee. I interviewed with him years ago, and he was one of the coolest people in the world.

He is Asian, and he is very committed to ensuring that students of color (as well as the general student population) have the most pleasant educational experience and have access to every possible opportunity.

Have you met him?

[yosup]

Good point! Once there, no one cares about the journey you took there.

I'm glad that you enjoyed Sichuan/Chinese food I'm happy with or without it.

Also, I sort of like being one of a kind And being the only (or one of the no-more-than-three) Chinese in OCI might even be of advantage (English/Mandarin bilingual with extensive WE/network both in US and China)? While staying with 50 other Chinese who have similar qualifications with me might be a bad thing when it comes to hiring...

OP is a she

I was actually a bit confused why NU wl'ed me at the first place. Both my lsat and gpa are above their 75% with WE ( 3+ yrs in the states + 2 yrs in China) plus advanced degree... it hurts to hear "someone from the WL", I guess that's one of the reasons I lean on UVA, who admitted me early January and offered me $105K beginning of March.

OP, I wouldn't focus on the timing so much; I understand though that you might feel slighted. The reason why I say this is because Admissions is very removed from your life as a student in law school. Once you're in, you're in. And at this point, it is more important to assess whether you'll enjoy the community, the surrounding environment, housing situation, academic life, etc. Still, if you're concerned about NU's treatment of international students, I think the fact that there were 50 international Chinese LLM students this past year might change your opinion.

I forgot to mention before, Chicago has a Chinatown if Chinese food is important to you. (from what I understand, a lot of my Chinese friends here appreciate it). There's also this one Sichuan place I went to a few months ago (not Lao Sze Chuan) -- it was amazing. hmm... I wonder what the name of it was..