Pulled off the WL, What Should I Do? Forum

[crazy8s]

Hi All,

Long time lurker, first time poster. I am hoping to get some candid feedback regarding where to attend law school (I know this won't be a challenge for the TLS collective). Please see my info below.

LSAT: 155, 156, 163 - yeah, I hate the LSAT
GPA: 3.6

Situation:
1. Admitted at University of San Diego with 33K/year (stip. is to remain in top 50%).
2. Just pulled off the WL at UC Hastings and have yet to hear about financial
aid.
3. Still WL at UVA (random, I don't know how the hell to explain that one)

I am from the San Diego area, and have family all over Southern California. I can live in San Diego with an extremely low COL throughout law school. I would like to end up here in Southern California, even if it isn't San Diego. I'm not shooting for BigLaw, and would be totally fine ending up at a small/medium firm. I am interested in International Law (I speak Japanese, so doing corporate transactional stuff would be cool too), Education Law, and Labor & Employment matters.

Hastings is tempting because the market ties to Asia are far more dense than they are in San Diego. It also seems that Hastings places better all over the state, while San Diego places primarily in San Diego. Also, it would be cool to spend 3 years in the Bay Area. What do you think? Will the long-term options be better for me if I go to Hastings? Or should I take the money and run at USD? Thanks for the input.

[sublime]

..

[fratstar1]

Your not gonna get much from Hastings they don't have much money. When did you apply? You shouldn't have been waitlisted at Hastings. Gun to my head sandiego with the scholarship and col expenses taken care off you won't die from crippling debt, unless you lose the scholarship then drop out.

[yadiermolina]

ya don't go. just being honest (also, if you hate the LSAT, you very likely will REALLY hate legal work).

[Louis1127]

How much did you study for the LSAT? If you feel like there is still gas in the tank there, you know what to do.

[03152016]

I don't think you're making it off the UVA waitlist
which might actually be good news for you, since lots of people can't fight the temptation to attend a t14 at sticker
and you won't have to deal with that

UC hastings at sticker is absolutely indefensible, there are some hastings grads around here who can tell you that
or you can check out the statistics for yourself, they're grim - http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/hastings/2013/

the sensible option is to go for retake #3. manofthehour wrote the test four times i think, and he ended up doing much better on the last take. then reapply next year to schools that can actually help you reach your goals, since hastings and USD won't.

the somewhat defensible option is to adjust said goals (i.e. forget about international/transactional law), get USD to drop the stip (IMPORTANT), and attend with the 33k/year scholly, provided that you truly do keep COL expenses to a minimum (can you live at home?)

but until hastings shows you the money, pretend it doesn't exist. maybe use your admit to get USD to give you a little more money/drop the stips

[moneybagsphd]

Hi All,

Long time lurker, first time poster. I am hoping to get some candid feedback regarding where to attend law school (I know this won't be a challenge for the TLS collective). Please see my info below.

LSAT: 155, 156, 163 - yeah, I hate the LSAT
GPA: 3.6

Situation:
1. Admitted at University of San Diego with 33K/year (stip. is to remain in top 50%).
2. Just pulled off the WL at UC Hastings and have yet to hear about financial
aid.
3. Still WL at UVA (random, I don't know how the hell to explain that one)

I am from the San Diego area, and have family all over Southern California. I can live in San Diego with an extremely low COL throughout law school. I would like to end up here in Southern California, even if it isn't San Diego. I'm not shooting for BigLaw, and would be totally fine ending up at a small/medium firm. I am interested in International Law (I speak Japanese, so doing corporate transactional stuff would be cool too), Education Law, and Labor & Employment matters.

Hastings is tempting because the market ties to Asia are far more dense than they are in San Diego. It also seems that Hastings places better all over the state, while San Diego places primarily in San Diego. Also, it would be cool to spend 3 years in the Bay Area. What do you think? Will the long-term options be better for me if I go to Hastings? Or should I take the money and run at USD? Thanks for the input.

Bro, that's a fucking coin toss.
Oh, and don't go to UC Hastings. I had CCN and T14 with $$$. UC Hastings offered me zero dollars.

[2014]

If you can retake you should, but given your situation USD at 33k/year doesn't seem awful. So long as you can minimize COL, are fine with non-biglaw in southern California, and are willing to drop out should you miss the top half stipulation, USD could be fine. Hastings won't open anymore doors and will cost you far more, that would be a bad decision.

[TheSpanishMain]

Forget Hastings and UVA.

If you must go, go to San Diego and drop out if you lose your scholarship.

[Ohiobumpkin]

Forget Hastings and UVA.

If you must go, go to San Diego and drop out if you lose your scholarship.

I disagree. SD is a terrible option for becoming a lawyer. I suggest doing something else with your life that you are more interested in. If you are still interested in being an attorney, retake and study your butt off between now and then. I forget how long you have to wait for a fourth administration of the LSAT, but UC Hastings and SD are not worth it.

[TheSpanishMain]

Forget Hastings and UVA.

If you must go, go to San Diego and drop out if you lose your scholarship.

I disagree. SD is a terrible option for becoming a lawyer. I suggest doing something else with your life that you are more interested in. If you are still interested in being an attorney, retake and study your butt off between now and then. I forget how long you have to wait for a fourth administration of the LSAT, but UC Hastings and SD are not worth it.

That's why I said "if you must go." I think the correct answer is wait to retake a fourth time or just don't go. I just think USD with 33k a year + living with family is better than Hastings, and I don't think he's going to get off the UVA waitlist.

[twenty 8]

I passed up a T6 near sticker for a free ride in my hometown/state at a TTT (now tier 2). Now one of a select few associates with zero debt. So, you can roll the dice and end up with a very happy debt free ending.

[HRomanus]

I passed up a T6 near sticker for a free ride in my hometown/state at a TTT (now tier 2). Now one of a select few associates with zero debt. So, you can roll the dice and end up with a very happy debt free ending.

Anecdotes are silly as justification. One person from Cooley's c/o 2013 is in a 501+, but that doesn't mean Cooley is a good choice. I'm glad that you had a good outcome, but you were an outlier at your school and shouldn't advise someone to make that leap of faith while taking on large debt.

[BigZuck]

I passed up a T6 near sticker for a free ride in my hometown/state at a TTT (now tier 2). Now one of a select few associates with zero debt. So, you can roll the dice and end up with a very happy debt free ending.

I don't think anyone has ever contended that it's not possible to get lucky

But odds and stuff

[saintsfan200]

What did you do your undergrad in? What other options besides law school do you have? Assuming you're not K-JD, what have you been doing after undergrad?

[NYSprague]

How much will law school COA actually be at these schools? How much debt?

[goldenflash19]

I took 4 times. Best decision of my life. Go work for a little d nail the retake. A 163 shows you have the potential to succeed

[NorCalLaw]

Honestly, you could do better than this even with the numbers you presently have. You're overqualified for the entering classes at UC Hastings and USD. USD would be a reasonable option if not for the stipulation. Finishing in the top half of the class sounds easy until you realize that everyone at such a mid-ranked school is desperate to do the same thing.

Just in case you haven't seen these:

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/sandiego/
http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/hastings/

Hastings is a bipolar school that places a few people in big law and gov't but leaves the majority underwater. The school had quite a reputation 20 or so years ago but is suffering greatly due to the awful legal market in the bay area, increasing competition from other law schools, and (in my opinion as a student) mismanagement. Honestly, Hastings might provide better opportunities for Japanese speakers than USD (e.g. through its Hawaiian alumni network), but neither school is going to get you involved in international transactions unless you are literally at the top of your class. San Diego's overall stats are slightly better, but they place even less people in quality jobs. USD is the biggest law school in its city, but the law market in San Diego is borderline nonexistent and probably shrinking. If you finish near median at either school you are toast. At least at USD you won't be absolutely broke. Well, you will be, but you'll be less indebted, at least.

BTW- your numbers might get you some decent money at UCI or Davis these days. They're not popular schools here, but their employment numbers beat the hell out of your present options. Just another thing to consider.

PM me if you want more details--I know quite a bit about both of these schools, for better or worse.

[paayter]

Hi All,

Long time lurker, first time poster. I am hoping to get some candid feedback regarding where to attend law school (I know this won't be a challenge for the TLS collective). Please see my info below.

LSAT: 155, 156, 163 - yeah, I hate the LSAT
GPA: 3.6

Situation:
1. Admitted at University of San Diego with 33K/year (stip. is to remain in top 50%).
2. Just pulled off the WL at UC Hastings and have yet to hear about financial
aid.
3. Still WL at UVA (random, I don't know how the hell to explain that one)

I am from the San Diego area, and have family all over Southern California. I can live in San Diego with an extremely low COL throughout law school. I would like to end up here in Southern California, even if it isn't San Diego. I'm not shooting for BigLaw, and would be totally fine ending up at a small/medium firm. I am interested in International Law (I speak Japanese, so doing corporate transactional stuff would be cool too), Education Law, and Labor & Employment matters.

Hastings is tempting because the market ties to Asia are far more dense than they are in San Diego. It also seems that Hastings places better all over the state, while San Diego places primarily in San Diego. Also, it would be cool to spend 3 years in the Bay Area. What do you think? Will the long-term options be better for me if I go to Hastings? Or should I take the money and run at USD? Thanks for the input.

Bro, that's a fucking coin toss.
Oh, and don't go to UC Hastings. I had CCN and T14 with $$$. UC Hastings offered me zero dollars.

I think hastings has stopped caring about the rankings, and now riding the "UC" name to get the masses to attend at sticker. Same here...was accepted to MUCH better schools than Hastings, all provided money except Hastings. Then hastings had the audacity to email me and say, hey you missed your deposit, did you make a mistake? I said, well u guys arent offering shit...never got an email back. They are doing a disservice to their alumns..sad really.

[03152016]

2010: median lsat 164, gpa 3.6, 53% employed (17% biglaw), 40% underemployed
2013: median lsat 159, gpa 3.5, 42% employed (13% biglaw), 47% underemployed

circling the drain

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

I passed up a T6 near sticker for a free ride in my hometown/state at a TTT (now tier 2). Now one of a select few associates with zero debt. So, you can roll the dice and end up with a very happy debt free ending.

I don't think anyone has ever contended that it's not possible to get lucky

But odds and stuff

Maybe we hear these "anecdotes" all the time because students who turn down top ranked schools for hometown schools often finish at the very top of their class or are otherwise extremely successful.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

2010: median lsat 164, gpa 3.6, 53% employed (17% biglaw), 40% underemployed
2013: median lsat 159, gpa 3.5, 42% employed (13% biglaw), 47% underemployed

circling the drain

The California legal market is terrible and Hastings is obvious heading the wrong direction, but I wonder what effect the tough CA bar exam has on their LST scores.

Fail the bar once and your chances of being "underemployed" are exceptionally high 9 months out from graduation. I bet deans of California law school hate having employment scores that create apples to apples comparisons between their school and some school in a state with a 85-90% bar passage rate.

[rad lulz]

Harsh but: Don't go to LS.

Or retake until you get a better score.

[BigZuck]

I passed up a T6 near sticker for a free ride in my hometown/state at a TTT (now tier 2). Now one of a select few associates with zero debt. So, you can roll the dice and end up with a very happy debt free ending.

I don't think anyone has ever contended that it's not possible to get lucky

But odds and stuff

Maybe we hear these "anecdotes" all the time because students who turn down top ranked schools for hometown schools often finish at the very top of their class or are otherwise extremely successful.

wut

We hear these anecdotes all the time?

Also:Survivorship bias?

Come on Randy

Or am I getting whooshed?

Can't tell