Michigan v.s. Penn Forum

[coreaves23]

Alright, guys... my waitlist ride just keeps getting crazier..

Was about to mail in my deposit to Penn two days ago when I got a phone call from Michigan, offering me a spot off of the waitlist.

At this point, NDLS and UCLA are out of the running -- Michigan and Penn remain.

I have a $10,000/year scholarship at each school -- just have to be in good academic standing.

I am thinking that maybe I just need to take a visit to each and see which is the best "fit" for me, but would love to hear everyone's thoughts.

Most of you know my back story from old posts, if not just let me know and I'll repost.

Thanks again for all of your help!

[ymmv]

Alright, guys... my waitlist ride just keeps getting crazier..

Was about to mail in my deposit to Penn two days ago when I got a phone call from Michigan, offering me a spot off of the waitlist.

At this point, NDLS and UCLA are out of the running -- Michigan and Penn remain.

I have a $10,000/year scholarship at each school -- just have to be in good academic standing.

I am thinking that maybe I just need to take a visit to each and see which is the best "fit" for me, but would love to hear everyone's thoughts.

Where do you want to practice? How risk averse are you - keeping in mind that you should be very risk averse with what I assume will be a COA of ~$180,000?

Penn is the objectively better school if you want biglaw and/or NYC. If you really want to practice in Michigan or nearby than UMich might be the better choice.
But for biglaw and employment/debt-repayment generally, choose Penn. No contest.

[coreaves23]

Yes, risk averse, but I do not really want to practice BigLaw in NYC. Have no ties there at all. I would really like sports law or to become a sports agent, but have heard BigLaw is the route I should take at first. After practicing for a few years, it becomes more realistic to break into the sports law market.

I am from the Midwest. I would like to come back here to raise a family, but am not sold on coming back here right after graduation.

I've read other older threads and it seems like people were inclined to say "M-V-P" -- has that changed?

[redsoxfan1989]

I've read other older threads and it seems like people were inclined to say "M-V-P" -- has that changed?

Michigan has softer employment statistics than UVa or Penn, but if you want Chicago/Detroit/other midwest, I would pick Michigan over Penn.

[CFC1524]

GPA / LSAT? Just curious, no need to answer if you don't want to.

1. Penn is better for Biglaw
2. You're (probably?) taking a decent chunk of debt
3. Biglaw is basically the best way to pay off debt
4. Go to Penn.

Any full rides from strong regionals? One of those might be a better option here

[BigZuck]

Don't you have a 4.0? Retake.

http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 1&t=230855

Also, you're chasing a unicorn. You want to be a sports agent in the Midwest and you think 200K debt at Penn might be the way to get you there? I would plan this out a bit more carefully before going into so much debt for something that is so unlikely.

I would take a year off and retake if the June retake isn't a big jump.

[coreaves23]

I've read other older threads and it seems like people were inclined to say "M-V-P" -- has that changed?

Michigan has softer employment statistics than UVa or Penn, but if you want Chicago/Detroit/other midwest, I would pick Michigan over Penn.

I saw that as well and wondered if it was self-selection or just that Penn places better in the bigger markets.

GPA / LSAT? Just curious, no need to answer if you don't want to.

1. Penn is better for Biglaw
2. You're (probably?) taking a decent chunk of debt
3. Biglaw is basically the best way to pay off debt
4. Go to Penn.

Any full rides from strong regionals? One of those might be a better option here

PM me for stats. I get that Penn is better for BigLaw, but if I don't want NYC BigLaw, is it really that much better of an option? I am having trouble wrapping my head around turning down an Ivy, but think that Michigan is also first-class.

[rayiner]

I've read other older threads and it seems like people were inclined to say "M-V-P" -- has that changed?

Michigan has softer employment statistics than UVa or Penn, but if you want Chicago/Detroit/other midwest, I would pick Michigan over Penn go to NU with money.

The whole M-V-P thing was before we had concrete employment data. Michigan and Penn are on opposite sides of the T7-13 grouping: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 1&t=230636

[coreaves23]

Don't you have a 4.0? Retake.

http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 1&t=230855

Also, you're chasing a unicorn. You want to be a sports agent in the Midwest and you think 200K debt at Penn might be the way to get you there? I would plan this out a bit more carefully before going into so much debt for something that is so unlikely.

I would take a year off and retake if the June retake isn't a big jump.

Yes, I do. That's why I stated that I would go BigLaw at first and then try to transition into the field. I am realistic about the difficulty of breaking into sports law. Won't have 200K debt at either (savings and wife's income -- I think it will be around 180K at each) and I'm not going to retake. Hopefully if June LSAT went well I will receive an increase from either school. Problem is I have to make my choice now.

EDIT: And yes -- sorry for neglecting this question earlier -- had a full-ride at IU-Bloomington, but turned it down. Didn't feel like a good fit to me.

[ymmv]

I've read other older threads and it seems like people were inclined to say "M-V-P" -- has that changed?

Michigan has softer employment statistics than UVa or Penn, but if you want Chicago/Detroit/other midwest, I would pick Michigan over Penn.

I saw that as well and wondered if it was self-selection or just that Penn places better in the bigger markets.

GPA / LSAT? Just curious, no need to answer if you don't want to.

1. Penn is better for Biglaw
2. You're (probably?) taking a decent chunk of debt
3. Biglaw is basically the best way to pay off debt
4. Go to Penn.

Any full rides from strong regionals? One of those might be a better option here

PM me for stats. I get that Penn is better for BigLaw, but if I don't want NYC BigLaw, is it really that much better of an option? I am having trouble wrapping my head around turning down an Ivy, but think that Michigan is also first-class.

Ivy? First-class? Sports law?
To be brutally frank, you have not researched law school and the legal market well enough to justify spending $180,000 on what is essentially an uninformed decision.

Sports law does not exist. It's barely a rational goal for HYS and it's certainly not viable from MVP. If you choose to take out six figures in debt to attend law school, you need to do it based on the school that gives you the best chance of paying off your debt - almost certainly via biglaw - before you think about chasing unicorns through strawberry fields.

In any case, looking at overall employment statistics will reveal that Michigan has not been in the same league as Penn for some years now. But if you are deadset on the midwest and don't want NYC, then pick Michigan.

Better yet, retake and go full ride regional. ED NU for the off chance of a full ride there.

[rayiner]

Don't you have a 4.0? Retake.

http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 1&t=230855

Also, you're chasing a unicorn. You want to be a sports agent in the Midwest and you think 200K debt at Penn might be the way to get you there? I would plan this out a bit more carefully before going into so much debt for something that is so unlikely.

I would take a year off and retake if the June retake isn't a big jump.

Yes, I do. That's why I stated that I would go BigLaw at first and then try to transition into the field. I am realistic about the difficulty of breaking into sports law. Won't have 200K debt at either (savings and wife's income -- I think it will be around 180K at each) and I'm not going to retake. Hopefully if June LSAT went well I will receive an increase from either school. Problem is I have to make my choice now.

EDIT: And yes -- sorry for neglecting this question earlier -- had a full-ride at IU-Bloomington, but turned it down. Didn't feel like a good fit to me.

I would deposit at both places, then negotiate hard with June LSAT results to try and get more money.

[coreaves23]

I've read other older threads and it seems like people were inclined to say "M-V-P" -- has that changed?

Michigan has softer employment statistics than UVa or Penn, but if you want Chicago/Detroit/other midwest, I would pick Michigan over Penn.

I saw that as well and wondered if it was self-selection or just that Penn places better in the bigger markets.

GPA / LSAT? Just curious, no need to answer if you don't want to.

1. Penn is better for Biglaw
2. You're (probably?) taking a decent chunk of debt
3. Biglaw is basically the best way to pay off debt
4. Go to Penn.

Any full rides from strong regionals? One of those might be a better option here

PM me for stats. I get that Penn is better for BigLaw, but if I don't want NYC BigLaw, is it really that much better of an option? I am having trouble wrapping my head around turning down an Ivy, but think that Michigan is also first-class.

Ivy? First-class? Sports law?
To be brutally frank, you have not researched law school and the legal market well enough to justify spending $180,000 on what is essentially an uninformed decision.

Sports law does not exist. It's barely a rational goal for HYS and it's certainly not viable from MVP. If you choose to take out six figures in debt to attend law school, you need to do it based on the school that gives you the best chance of paying off your debt - almost certainly via biglaw - before you think about chasing unicorns through strawberry fields.

In any case, looking at overall employment statistics will reveal that Michigan has not been in the same league as Penn for some years now. But if you are deadset on the midwest and don't want NYC, then pick Michigan.

Better yet, retake and go full ride regional. ED NU for the off chance of a full ride there.

Yeah, Penn is an Ivy. "First-class" was the term I used to describe that Michigan is a good school. Could have used T14 or whatever. Already addressed that sports law is a difficult field. I said I hope to be going BigLaw, not sure that needs to be repeated again. Not deadset on the Midwest, just want to return here to raise a family.

@rayiner -- Can I do that? Penn had a matriculation form that appeared to be binding.

[jrthor10]

If both Penn and Mich offered you 10k you should be able to negotiate up with Mich. I would start there.

[ymmv]

Michigan has softer employment statistics than UVa or Penn, but if you want Chicago/Detroit/other midwest, I would pick Michigan over Penn.

I saw that as well and wondered if it was self-selection or just that Penn places better in the bigger markets.

GPA / LSAT? Just curious, no need to answer if you don't want to.

1. Penn is better for Biglaw
2. You're (probably?) taking a decent chunk of debt
3. Biglaw is basically the best way to pay off debt
4. Go to Penn.

Any full rides from strong regionals? One of those might be a better option here

PM me for stats. I get that Penn is better for BigLaw, but if I don't want NYC BigLaw, is it really that much better of an option? I am having trouble wrapping my head around turning down an Ivy, but think that Michigan is also first-class.

Ivy? First-class? Sports law?
To be brutally frank, you have not researched law school and the legal market well enough to justify spending $180,000 on what is essentially an uninformed decision.

Sports law does not exist. It's barely a rational goal for HYS and it's certainly not viable from MVP. If you choose to take out six figures in debt to attend law school, you need to do it based on the school that gives you the best chance of paying off your debt - almost certainly via biglaw - before you think about chasing unicorns through strawberry fields.

In any case, looking at overall employment statistics will reveal that Michigan has not been in the same league as Penn for some years now. But if you are deadset on the midwest and don't want NYC, then pick Michigan.

Better yet, retake and go full ride regional. ED NU for the off chance of a full ride there.

Yeah, Penn is an Ivy. "First-class" was the term I used to describe that Michigan is a good school. Could have used T14 or whatever. Already addressed that sports law is a difficult field. I said I hope to be going BigLaw, not sure that needs to be repeated again. Not deadset on the Midwest, just want to return here to raise a family.

@rayiner -- Can I do that? Penn had a matriculation form that appeared to be binding.

Ivy is utterly meaningless in the context of law schools fyi. Penn is generally a better choice than Michigan because of its employment stats, not its undergrad athletic conference. This is partly what I meant by doing your homework.

[rayiner]

Michigan has softer employment statistics than UVa or Penn, but if you want Chicago/Detroit/other midwest, I would pick Michigan over Penn.

I saw that as well and wondered if it was self-selection or just that Penn places better in the bigger markets.

GPA / LSAT? Just curious, no need to answer if you don't want to.

1. Penn is better for Biglaw
2. You're (probably?) taking a decent chunk of debt
3. Biglaw is basically the best way to pay off debt
4. Go to Penn.

Any full rides from strong regionals? One of those might be a better option here

PM me for stats. I get that Penn is better for BigLaw, but if I don't want NYC BigLaw, is it really that much better of an option? I am having trouble wrapping my head around turning down an Ivy, but think that Michigan is also first-class.

Ivy? First-class? Sports law?
To be brutally frank, you have not researched law school and the legal market well enough to justify spending $180,000 on what is essentially an uninformed decision.

Sports law does not exist. It's barely a rational goal for HYS and it's certainly not viable from MVP. If you choose to take out six figures in debt to attend law school, you need to do it based on the school that gives you the best chance of paying off your debt - almost certainly via biglaw - before you think about chasing unicorns through strawberry fields.

In any case, looking at overall employment statistics will reveal that Michigan has not been in the same league as Penn for some years now. But if you are deadset on the midwest and don't want NYC, then pick Michigan.

Better yet, retake and go full ride regional. ED NU for the off chance of a full ride there.

Yeah, Penn is an Ivy. "First-class" was the term I used to describe that Michigan is a good school. Could have used T14 or whatever. Already addressed that sports law is a difficult field. I said I hope to be going BigLaw, not sure that needs to be repeated again. Not deadset on the Midwest, just want to return here to raise a family.

@rayiner -- Can I do that? Penn had a matriculation form that appeared to be binding.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 2#p7777104

[coreaves23]

If both Penn and Mich offered you 10k you should be able to negotiate up with Mich. I would start there.

Sorry, should have clarified. This is an outside scholarship from the BAR in my hometown. Both stated that they are "out of merit aid," so it sounds like negotiating is off the table.

@ymmv -- I've got ya, my fault. I thought "Ivy" applied at all levels in all graduate programs. http://employmentsummary.abaquestionnaire.org This is the place I am getting my employment statistics from -- this the best place to look? I have also been looking at lawschooltransparency.com

LST gives Michigan a MUCH lower employment score.

[ymmv]

If both Penn and Mich offered you 10k you should be able to negotiate up with Mich. I would start there.

Sorry, should have clarified. This is an outside scholarship from the BAR in my hometown. Both stated that they are "out of merit aid," so it sounds like negotiating is off the table.

@ymmv -- I've got ya, my fault. I thought "Ivy" applied at all levels in all graduate programs. http://employmentsummary.abaquestionnaire.org This is the place I am getting my employment statistics from -- this the best place to look? I have also been looking at lawschooltransparency.com

LST gives Michigan a MUCH lower employment score.

Ivy may impress your non-lawyer friends but it won't get you a job or matter to anyone who knows anything about law school or the legal market.

The important thing about the ABA data is knowing how to read it. The closest measure of good biglaw employment outcomes is probably something like (firms w/ > 100 attorneys) + (federal clerkships) - (unemployed students) - (students employed by school) - (students in non-JD jobs).

By this or any similar metric you will find that Michigan has been underperforming its USNWR rank for at least four or five years. Last year, for instance, Michigan employed only 52% of its students in biglaw/clerkships vs. 71% at Penn.
Even more notably, Michigan had something like only 82% employed in legal (JD-required) jobs at all, with 91% employed at Penn. Michigan also had an overall unemployment rate of 10% vs. 2% at Penn.

Anyway, you get my point. If you had a full ride or a hefty scholarship I would say go to Michigan since you ultimately want to work in the midwest anyway. But I can't really recommend Michigan over Penn to someone paying near sticker.

[coreaves23]

If both Penn and Mich offered you 10k you should be able to negotiate up with Mich. I would start there.

Sorry, should have clarified. This is an outside scholarship from the BAR in my hometown. Both stated that they are "out of merit aid," so it sounds like negotiating is off the table.

@ymmv -- I've got ya, my fault. I thought "Ivy" applied at all levels in all graduate programs. http://employmentsummary.abaquestionnaire.org This is the place I am getting my employment statistics from -- this the best place to look? I have also been looking at lawschooltransparency.com

LST gives Michigan a MUCH lower employment score.

Ivy may impress your non-lawyer friends but it won't get you a job or matter to anyone who knows anything about law school or the legal market.

The important thing about the ABA data is knowing how to read it. The closest measure of good biglaw employment outcomes is probably something like (firms w/ > 100 attorneys) + (federal clerkships) - (unemployed students) - (students employed by school) - (students in non-JD jobs).

By this or any similar metric you will find that Michigan has been underperforming its USNWR rank for at least four or five years. Last year, for instance, Michigan employed only 52% of its students in biglaw/clerkships vs. 71% at Penn.
Even more notably, Michigan had something like only 82% employed in legal (JD-required) jobs at all, with 91% employed at Penn. Michigan also had an overall unemployment rate of 10% vs. 2% at Penn.

Anyway, you get my point. If you had a full ride or a hefty scholarship I would say go to Michigan since you ultimately want to work in the midwest anyway. But I can't really recommend Michigan over Penn to someone paying near sticker.

Yes, those are great points -- I had not thought of using that formula to calculate a realistic "employment score." Do you think that has anything to do with Michigan's placement in academia? I've heard that it's better if you want to teach. I just wonder if Penn will give me THAT much better of an education, or if a big factor in its placement is location. I think I may just need to visit. I don't mind the city life that Penn would provide. Never been to either campus though.

[MistakenGenius]

Post removed.

[CFC1524]

Yeah, Penn is an Ivy. "First-class" was the term I used to describe that Michigan is a good school. Could have used T14 or whatever. Already addressed that sports law is a difficult field. I said I hope to be going BigLaw, not sure that needs to be repeated again. Not deadset on the Midwest, just want to return here to raise a family.

@rayiner -- Can I do that? Penn had a matriculation form that appeared to be binding.

Ivy is utterly meaningless in the context of law schools fyi. Penn is generally a better choice than Michigan because of its employment stats, not its undergrad athletic conference. This is partly what I meant by doing your homework.

Ivy is always utterly meaningless. It's an athletic conference, nothing else. OP, I'm generally one of the more patient people, but this is asinine. You have no clue about law school, but are about to go into life-ruining debt chasing a pipe dream. Anyone who says outright that Michigan or Penn is a better option is an uneducated, rankings-obsessed chimp (Looking at this CFC moron with 8 posts). Yes, Penn is better for Biglaw in New York, but you want neither of those goals. If you want to work in the Midwest (talk about lack of talented sports teams), then Penn is a horrible option. At any rate, neither option is worth 200 grand of debt.

Oh, silly me, I forgot post count is an objective measure of educational background and overall intelligence level. I'll just shut-up and leave the talking to the genius people who have over 350 posts.

Penn is certainly better in terms of Biglaw placement, which is exactly what my post indicated. Since Biglaw is the best way to pay off debt, and since the applicant is going to have a lot of debt, I recommended Penn. I also mentioned that a full ride to a strong regional might be better - because, as you said, taking on 200,000 in debt is almost never a good idea.

I'm failing to see how this makes me "moronic," "uneducated," and a "rankings-obsessed chimp." I suppose I could have been more upfront about the perils of taking on 6 figure debt, but my ultimate recommendation was to go to a lower ranked school for cheap. I get it - you don't want to see someone throw his or her life away by taking on so much debt. I totally agree with this. That withstanding, there's certainly no need to start hurling insults around, especially at people who are expressing similar (if not the same) opinion as you.

[ymmv]

If both Penn and Mich offered you 10k you should be able to negotiate up with Mich. I would start there.

Sorry, should have clarified. This is an outside scholarship from the BAR in my hometown. Both stated that they are "out of merit aid," so it sounds like negotiating is off the table.

@ymmv -- I've got ya, my fault. I thought "Ivy" applied at all levels in all graduate programs. http://employmentsummary.abaquestionnaire.org This is the place I am getting my employment statistics from -- this the best place to look? I have also been looking at lawschooltransparency.com

LST gives Michigan a MUCH lower employment score.

Ivy may impress your non-lawyer friends but it won't get you a job or matter to anyone who knows anything about law school or the legal market.

The important thing about the ABA data is knowing how to read it. The closest measure of good biglaw employment outcomes is probably something like (firms w/ > 100 attorneys) + (federal clerkships) - (unemployed students) - (students employed by school) - (students in non-JD jobs).

By this or any similar metric you will find that Michigan has been underperforming its USNWR rank for at least four or five years. Last year, for instance, Michigan employed only 52% of its students in biglaw/clerkships vs. 71% at Penn.
Even more notably, Michigan had something like only 82% employed in legal (JD-required) jobs at all, with 91% employed at Penn. Michigan also had an overall unemployment rate of 10% vs. 2% at Penn.

Anyway, you get my point. If you had a full ride or a hefty scholarship I would say go to Michigan since you ultimately want to work in the midwest anyway. But I can't really recommend Michigan over Penn to someone paying near sticker.

Yes, those are great points -- I had not thought of using that formula to calculate a realistic "employment score." Do you think that has anything to do with Michigan's placement in academia? I've heard that it's better if you want to teach.

Neither school has good placement in academia. If you want an even remotely realistic shot at a law professor gig you pretty much have to go to Yale these days.

I just wonder if Penn will give me THAT much better of an education, or if a big factor in its placement is location.

Educational quality is not meaningfully distinguishable at any of the T14 and probably not in the whole T1. Core classes are exactly the same everywhere (i.e. the Harvard model) and actual teaching skills of your professors will be effectively random.

You don't get law jobs by getting a good legal education. You get law jobs by going to a school with alumni connections and a good reputation with employers. Virtually nothing you learn in core courses applies to real life legal practice anyway.

I think I may just need to visit. I don't mind the city life that Penn would provide. Never been to either campus though.

Visiting campuses will probably not give you much meaningful information, but you should do it anyway. At the end of the day you should, as I cannot stress hard enough, choose the school that will best situate you for legal employment.

Better yet, retake and use the time to think more carefully about this whole thing. No one should be paying that much for law school when they don't even know what legal employment looks like.

[coreaves23]

Yeah, Penn is an Ivy. "First-class" was the term I used to describe that Michigan is a good school. Could have used T14 or whatever. Already addressed that sports law is a difficult field. I said I hope to be going BigLaw, not sure that needs to be repeated again. Not deadset on the Midwest, just want to return here to raise a family.

@rayiner -- Can I do that? Penn had a matriculation form that appeared to be binding.

Ivy is utterly meaningless in the context of law schools fyi. Penn is generally a better choice than Michigan because of its employment stats, not its undergrad athletic conference. This is partly what I meant by doing your homework.

Ivy is always utterly meaningless. It's an athletic conference, nothing else. OP, I'm generally one of the more patient people, but this is asinine. You have no clue about law school, but are about to go into life-ruining debt chasing a pipe dream. Anyone who says outright that Michigan or Penn is a better option is an uneducated, rankings-obsessed chimp (Looking at this CFC moron with 8 posts). Yes, Penn is better for Biglaw in New York, but you want neither of those goals. If you want to work in the Midwest (talk about lack of talented sports teams), then Penn is a horrible option. At any rate, neither option is worth 200 grand of debt.

Sports law does not exist in any meaningful way. I go to Yale but it would still be unbelievably stupid for me to gun for such a incorporeal profession. If you go to one of these two options hoping to do that, you're going to wind up in a city you don't want to live doing work that makes you miserable to pay back Uncle Sam, or he's going to fuck you up. If you're serious regarding sports law, you need to go on a full scholarship to a school that does well in the sport you hope to be in. UNC for basketball, Bama for football. Network like crazy. Otherwise, you need to completely rethink this profession.

I appreciate your post! I now get that Ivy is meaningless. I feel that I do have a pretty good understanding of law school. To think otherwise from reading one of my threads is asinine. Not chasing a pipe dream. If you read the entire thread you will see that I said that sports law is NOT what I will be shooting for out of law school. I want to go BigLaw and then HOPE to transition. Not will. No for sure. Just what I would like to do. If I have to stay BigLaw, I will be completely fine with that. Haha, yes the Midwest does have a lack of talented sports teams for sure (I actually love the Philadelphia Eagles!). I will be looking at about $180K in debt for both, a little more at Penn. Once again, I understand that sports law "does not exist." Thanks for your post as well. Appreciate that you told me where you attend -- so often on here I don't know if I'm getting the opinion of a 0L, T14, etc.

@ymmv -- definitely going to visit Michigan next week. Maybe that will be enough for me to decide on Penn or UMich. If I'm basing solely on legal employment, it sounds like Penn. However, if I don't want to live in NYC, I wonder if they are pretty comparable in terms of employment elsewhere.

[jbagelboy]

Stop feeding OP bland answers as if this is a legitimate choice.

We already answered you in a previous thread. You have to retake the LSAT, take time off and reapply, both for you, your fiance, and your future family. Either choice for next year is reckless and unnecessary given your massive room for improvement (Just FYI everyone, OP has very high gpa/lower lsat and would be k-jd).

Also just because you edited out the posts in your old thread doesn't mean we can't see them :/

[coreaves23]

Stop feeding OP bland answers as if this is a legitimate choice.

We already answered you in a previous thread. You have to retake the LSAT, take time off and reapply, both for you, your fiance, and your future family. Either choice for next year is reckless and unnecessary given your massive room for improvement (Just FYI everyone, OP would be k-jd).

Also just because you edited out the posts in your old thread doesn't mean we can't see them :/

Circumstances have changed with Michigan admit. Thank you for your advice, but I am not going to retake, take time off, or reapply. I'm a big boy and if things don't work out that will be on me. I would appreciate it if you wouldn't post my numbers. Appears you have taken a liking to me and I am flattered/creeped out. I only did that because someone linked my LSN profile. Didn't know you could still see.

[BigZuck]

Stop feeding OP bland answers as if this is a legitimate choice.

We already answered you in a previous thread. You have to retake the LSAT, take time off and reapply, both for you, your fiance, and your future family. Either choice for next year is reckless and unnecessary given your massive room for improvement (Just FYI everyone, OP has 4.0+/162 and would be k-jd).

Also just because you edited out the posts in your old thread doesn't mean we can't see them :/

Circumstances have changed with Michigan admit. Thank you for your advice, but I am not going to retake, take time off, or reapply. I'm a big boy and if things don't work out that will be on me. I would appreciate it if you wouldn't post my numbers. Appears you have taken a liking to me and I am flattered/creeped out. I only did that because someone linked my LSN profile. Didn't know you could still see.

You don't sound like you're that big of a boy if you're K-JD

I get it man, I really do. I was right there with you. Thought that being an agent would be cool, wanted to go to law school to get a "good job," I'll pay off the debt, no biggie.

Now that I'm a little older and have some (admittedly probably still pretty vague) sense of what the legal employment landscape is like, I think it's insane for someone so young to tie himself (and another person!) to 200K debt without a real familiarity with what legal employment is like. Especially when that person has a 4.0 and is just too lazy to retake some dumb standardized test that could quite literally change his life for the better. "Oh, I'll do BIG LAW a couple years and try to lateral into BIG SPORTS AGENCY then." Craziness.

Good luck man. I really do sincerely hope this works out and you're able to get that sports agent job of your dreams.