Off Penn WL... Forum

[coreaves23]

Got the phone call yesterday... off the WL at UPenn!

UCLA told me they are going to come back with a higher money offer, as did Notre Dame. However, at this point, I am firmly sold on UPenn.

[bombaysippin]

You're fine either way, but if I were you I'd be too curious about my score to cancel since you paid.

[jingosaur]

Don't cancel it. There is zero evidence of an offer getting rescinded because of a lower LSAT score and schools only report your highest LSAT score so they really don't care. There are a few people who were able to get more money after getting a higher score on their June LSAT. If you're going to Penn regardless, you'll never need to take the LSAT again so why not just let it ride?

[coreaves23]

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[jbagelboy]

congrats on your admission, but sticker at penn is a bad call if you have a lot of room to maneuver with your LSAT.

[coreaves23]

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[ymmv]

congrats on your admission, but sticker at penn is a bad call if you have a lot of room to maneuver with your LSAT.

Thank you! I agree, but just don't want to study for the LSAT anymore. I played soccer in college so I have $0 debt from UG. I know I could improve, but I've given almost two years of my life to the LSAT and at this point I am ready to start law school.

Dat sticker debt, dude. Do you have any retakes left?

[coreaves23]

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[ManoftheHour]

I understand sticker is a lot to take on and that it forces me into BigLaw, but the LSAT has owned my life for too long! Haha

Biglaw and $250k+ debt will own your life even longer. Tread lightly.

[northwood]

congrats on your admission, but sticker at penn is a bad call if you have a lot of room to maneuver with your LSAT.

Thank you! I agree, but just don't want to study for the LSAT anymore. I played soccer in college so I have $0 debt from UG. I know I could improve, but I've given almost two years of my life to the LSAT and at this point I am ready to start law school.

Dat sticker debt, dude. Do you have any retakes left?

Hey, man! Yes, I have only taken twice. Coming straight from UG, so I know everyone will suggest I take a year off and retake, but I really just cannot do it. Like I said, I've given the LSAT too much of my life already. Getting married this summer and want to start my life. I feel like I've put far too much time into the LSAT. Graduated early in December, so I have been working since then. Don't want to work my job a full year longer. I understand sticker is a lot to take on and that it forces me into BigLaw, but the LSAT has owned my life for too long! Haha

Sticker price for school is no joke... Don't be a financial idiot and rush into that type of forever and nondoschareable commitment

[jbagelboy]

congrats on your admission, but sticker at penn is a bad call if you have a lot of room to maneuver with your LSAT.

Thank you! I agree, but just don't want to study for the LSAT anymore. I played soccer in college so I have $0 debt from UG. I know I could improve, but I've given almost two years of my life to the LSAT and at this point I am ready to start law school.

Dat sticker debt, dude. Do you have any retakes left?

Hey, man! Yes, I have only taken twice. Coming straight from UG, so I know everyone will suggest I take a year off and retake, but I really just cannot do it. Like I said, I've given the LSAT too much of my life already. Getting married this summer and want to start my life. I feel like I've put far too much time into the LSAT. Graduated early in December, so I have been working since then. Don't want to work my job a full year longer. I understand sticker is a lot to take on and that it forces me into BigLaw, but the LSAT has owned my life for too long! Haha

whoa

you're k-jd? So the LSAT hasn't really occupied any of your life, just the few months since graduation. college has occupied your life. Now, you should get a job and work for a couple years and take the test at the right age.

the sad thing is, since you are getting married, you aren't just straddling yourself with debt poverty. You are ruining the financial stability of another person (unless your spouse is in investment banking or another very high income field). You should be even more careful about making reckless financial decisions given that another individual may come to be dependent on you, or responsible for your debt and the lifestyle choices that debt forces you to make; you've attained a higher imperative. you won't be able to purchase a home, or have children - god forbid you are borrowing a lot of money for the ceremony.

I'm not saying any of this to be disrespectful. I too have a serious SO and we spent a lot of time debating the merits of certain debt and expense levels for both of our graduate education. We are much better off for having taken a little time off and made these decisions with care, rather than acting on the whim of "I don't want to wait," "I don't like the test," I feel like I should do this now." Just have a serious conversation with your fiance and show them what sticker actually means - explain that in ten years you will still be paying off these loans, the two of you. Or you could continue working the job you have, save some money, maybe for a later ceremony and CoL, and save yourself hundreds of thousands of dollars and countless emotional expense.

[Trig]

I am going to Penn and love the school, but definitely listen to everyone hear. Sticker debt is obscenely expensive, and could very negatively impact your life. Unless somebody is paying a substantial chunk of the cost, e.g. wealthy parents, it might be better to get major money form UCLA or ND.

[coreaves23]

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[BigZuck]

I understand sticker is a lot to take on and that it forces me into BigLaw, but the LSAT has owned my life for too long! Haha

Biglaw and $250k+ debt will own your life even longer. Tread lightly.

I understand that, but I also think that the number of people going T10 with big money isn't as high as people on TLS think. I understand that some people do, but it isn't the norm. If nothing else, the LSAT yesterday just showed how unpredictable it can be at times. Makes me wonder if it's really worth it to hold out when I have a pretty good opportunity (albeit with great debt). I have the money that I made working saved up and my wife with be teaching (making the big bucks! haha). I just cannot justify another 4 months studying with no guarantee of payoff. Like I said in a past post, a year and a half of studying and I maxed out at 169 PTing.


@northwood -- I appreciate your concern.

Don't punish your future self for your present self's impatience or your past self's poor planning/timing of when to take/retake the LSAT.

[coreaves23]

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[ManoftheHour]

No one is saying T-10 with money or bust. UCLA/Vandy-ish for free (near free) is an objectively better option (a great option actually) than almost any school at sticker (if you don't have rich parents funding you, which if that's the case, yolo). No one is going to say UCLA/ND for cheap (which sounds like you have those options) is "OMG, horrible don't go to law school!!!" It's just with a successful retake, you can have your cake and eat it.

[coreaves23]

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[ManoftheHour]

No one is saying T-10 with money or bust. UCLA/Vandy-ish for free (near free) is an objectively better option (a great option actually) than almost any school at sticker (if you don't have rich parents funding you, which if that's the case, yolo). No one is going to say UCLA/ND for cheap (which sounds like you have those options) is "OMG, horrible don't go to law school!!!" It's just with a successful retake, you can have your cake and eat it.

I might have to make another thread, because that will be a question I'll be wrestling with here soon (as soon as UCLA and ND come back with their offers). I realize a successful retake would be wonderful (maybe I did much better yesterday than I am thinking I did), and I fully understand where everyone is coming from. You think cheap ND over Penn sticker? I'm from Indiana, as I think I told you in a past post.

It depends on goals and available options you have. This thread would go a different way if you were out of retakes not because you "can't retake." If it's big law or bust, then I personally might roll the dice and do Penn at sticker IF I was out of retakes and didn't have the option of lower T-14 with $$$. If it's not big law, then ND for cheap all the way. The key factor contributing in the content of all these comments you're getting is because you have a retake on the table. With a retake, you COULD go to a T-10 with $$$, which is a better option than both previously mentioned options. You don't have bad options. I think you have fantastic options. Based on what you've stated about your prep, I think your best has yet to come.

I second this statement:

congrats on your admission, but sticker at penn is a bad call if you have a lot of room to maneuver with your LSAT.

It's a different story if you GPA sucks big time or your LSAT is really high. As I stated, it's all about available options at hand.

But yeah, don't cancel your LSAT score. Maybe you scored higher. You don't know what the curve is yet. It could be very forgiving.

[coreaves23]

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[Trig]

Hey everyone,

I have been PMing with OP. I do not want to share what he said, that is of course up to him, but I think he is in a position where he may benefit from hearing what you guys think is the absolute max amount of loans he should take out for Penn. Obviously people are opposed to sitcker ($300,000), but what do you think of $250,000 or $200,000 etc?

[ManoftheHour]

Hey everyone,

I have been PMing with OP. I do not want to share what he said, that is of course up to him, but I think he is in a position where he may benefit from hearing what you guys think is the absolute max amount of loans he should take out for Penn. Obviously people are opposed to sitcker ($300,000), but what do you think of $250,000 or $200,000 etc?

Available options and goals?

If it were me and I were out of retakes and I was big law or bust, I'd go all in. It's Penn, not some TTTT. But if I had a retake, I'd definitely retake for $$ at T-10 or $$$ at lower T-14.

What's OP's LSAT and GPA? If GPA is shit and his LSAT is already 170+ and I was big law or bust, then I'd still go all in. If he/she has a 4.0, for god's sake, retake.

If I was unsure of my goals or would rather do PI or small firm jobs, then I'd just go with the cheaper options.

But that's just me.

[jbagelboy]

I did not mean to appear condescending or dismissive. I understand how my comments could easily be interpreted as such. It's just different when you're with someone for the long haul. You can't take quite the same liberties as before, when you are young and single and really just looking after yourself - for example, I'm fine living with a bunch of friends as roommates, eating relatively cheap food, going to *meh* local bars, traveling with family when necessary instead of solo, watching movies on netflix instead of in theater, free student concerns instead of metropolitan opera, ect. In other words, I could maybe stomach the sticker debt lifestyle; I did a lot of stupid shit as a college student looking out only for myself. But I wouldn't put my SO through that as a 25-32 year old. It wouldn't be fair to them when they want to start building house equity and maybe having a child, which are precluded by high debt. Maybe you are right, your fiance accepts these circumstances and you are fully on the same page - not all relationships are like mine, of course. But I find that I'm usually right, or at least right where it counts, in my observations on here.

[rickgrimes69]

First of all, lol @ a fresh college grad feeling like he needs to "get started with his life".

Here's the thing dood: taking on sticker debt doesn't get your life started, it cements your life firmly in place for the next decade. It's not real money to you bc you've never had to make loan payments. But we're talking over a quarter million dollars here. I have roughly half that and a biglaw job and I'm still sweating paying it all off. Seriously sit down and think about what paying $3000+ / month in loan payments for the next ten years will be like. Imagine having to pull yourself out of bed and go work 80 hours a week for the next ten years not because you want to, not because you find the work fulfilling, but because you literally have no choice. Seriously, think about it.

[ymmv]

First of all, lol @ a fresh college grad feeling like he needs to "get started with his life".

Here's the thing dood: taking on sticker debt doesn't get your life started, it cements your life firmly in place for the next decade. It's not real money to you bc you've never had to make loan payments. But we're talking over a quarter million dollars here. I have roughly half that and a biglaw job and I'm still sweating paying it all off. Seriously sit down and think about what paying $3000+ / month in loan payments for the next ten years will be like. Imagine having to pull yourself out of bed and go work 80 hours a week for the next ten years not because you want to, not because you find the work fulfilling, but because you literally have no choice. Seriously, think about it.

TBF, that's what most of us spent the past six years since the recession doing anyway, and what some of us have had to since we were teenagers. But credited response nonetheless.

[Dafaq]

Congrats on Penn. I hung with a P SA (she was summering at a local BL firm) and she loved P. I got the vibe that life is golden at P.