Iowa(?) vs. Brooklyn($$$) Forum

[riku33090]

Hi Guys,

Before I start here are my stats.
161/3.0.
Brooklyn ($40,000)
Iowa(?)

I just got off the wait-list for Iowa. They didn't specify how much they would give me but looking at LSN I suspect it would be around $10,000 to $15,000. Ultimately I want to get into BigLaw and live in a big city.

Please help guys.

Thanks

[metroidbum]

Retake or don't go

[Zero99]

If you want big law you need to retake the LSAT and go to a T14 school. Right now Iowa gives you the best chance, but it is only around ~20%.

Here are the stats for Iowa and Brooklyn:
http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... yers/2013/
http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... employers/

Best of luck

[McAvoy]

First:

In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:

-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT

Second: Probably absolutely no to either, but contingent on the answers above and if you are from Brooklyn with a free place to stay and have very specific career goals that are attainable at Brooklyn and do not include biglaw, then maybe Brooklyn.

But because you're comparing it to Iowa I'm doubting that, so your options are probably retake, find other career paths, or spend the next two decades in crippling debt with no way out and no chance for biglaw.

[1LOL]

I wouldn't count on getting money from Iowa. I was accepted through regular admission this winter with a 157 and a 3.98 GPA. Despite trying to negotiate with $18,000 in scholarships I had from WashU and a cheaper price of tuition at the University of Wisconsin, I still did not get any money from Iowa. With that said, Iowa is a better school with better job prospects than Brooklyn and was ranked 18 by the Above The Law blog this year.

[TheSpanishMain]

Iowa is unquestionably a better school, but are you from Iowa (or at least the Midwest) and want to practice in Iowa (or at least the Midwest?) This is just a very random pair of schools.

Either way, I wouldn't go to Iowa at anything close to sticker, and I wouldn't go to Brooklyn without a full ride, no stips, and some way to cover CoL other than loans.

[McAvoy]

I wouldn't count on getting money from Iowa. I was accepted through regular admission this winter with a 157 and a 3.98 GPA. Despite trying to negotiate with $18,000 in scholarships I had from WashU and a cheaper price of tuition at the University of Wisconsin, I still did not get any money from Iowa. With that said, Iowa is a better school with better job prospects than Brooklyn and was ranked 18 by the Above The Law blog this year.

This is really terrible advice. Even if OP has ties to Iowa (they in all likelihood do not) going to Iowa at sticker is asinine.

[Nova]

big law in a big city?

both are awful decisions

readjust your goals or retake

[riku33090]

First:

In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:

-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT

Second: Probably absolutely no to either, but contingent on the answers above and if you are from Brooklyn with a free place to stay and have very specific career goals that are attainable at Brooklyn and do not include biglaw, then maybe Brooklyn.

But because you're comparing it to Iowa I'm doubting that, so your options are probably retake, find other career paths, or spend the next two decades in crippling debt with no way out and no chance for biglaw.

1. Brooklyn, Iowa (wait-listed at Wake Forest and Cardozo)
2. COL (Iowa: $16,000, BLS: $28,000), Tuition (Iowa: $39,500 without scholarship, BLS: $14300).
3. Loan but my parents are doctors they can afford it
4. I am from LA, I want to work in big metropolitan cities(prefer NYC)
5. BigLaw for couple years then in house counsel.
6. 161/3.0
7. I don't understand why people keep telling me to retake, I know that is an option but that is not included in this poll. I will not retake under any circumstances, I believe I can do well in law school and I am willing to give up everything and anything to achieve top 10% of my class regardless where I go. So please stop telling me to retake

P.S. Another option is to use the my acceptance at Iowa to get more money from Brooklyn.


Thank you

[Nova]

7. I don't understand why people keep telling me to retake, I know that is an option but that is not included in this poll. I will not retake under any circumstances, I believe I can do well in law school and I am willing to give up everything and anything to achieve top 10% of my class regardless where I go. So please stop telling me to retake

(gets outscored by 20ish% of LSAT test takers, where the median test taker is typically a fool)

(confident they will outscore 90% of future classmates at a school where their lsat is at median)

[riku33090]

7. I don't understand why people keep telling me to retake, I know that is an option but that is not included in this poll. I will not retake under any circumstances, I believe I can do well in law school and I am willing to give up everything and anything to achieve top 10% of my class regardless where I go. So please stop telling me to retake

(gets outscored by 20ish% of LSAT test takers, where the median test taker is typically a fool)

(confident they will outscore 90% of future classmates at a school where their lsat is at median)

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =2&t=77628

[McAvoy]

7. I don't understand why people keep telling me to retake, I know that is an option but that is not included in this poll. I will not retake under any circumstances, I believe I can do well in law school and I am willing to give up everything and anything to achieve top 10% of my class regardless where I go.

The effort it takes to retake and improve five points is nothing compared to the effort required to make the top 10 percent at even the worst of TTTs. This is a terrible plan.

So please stop telling me to retake

Sorry to be harsh, but if you want biglaw, nobody who is being honest/is not a moron will tell you that you have a legit option but retaking. You can't handle getting a 165 but you can handle getting to and surviving in the top of the legal profession?

[1LOL]

I didn't say go to Iowa at sticker price. I said that it's the better school and has better job prospects when comparing it to Brooklyn, which is something to think about. It has decent placement in the Midwest's big cities if you think you could live in the Midwest. This is my first time posting to a TLS forum,but I spent a lot of time reading through the forums during my application process, and it's hard not to find a thread about making a law school decision that doesn't include someone telling others to retake the LSAT.

[riku33090]

7. I don't understand why people keep telling me to retake, I know that is an option but that is not included in this poll. I will not retake under any circumstances, I believe I can do well in law school and I am willing to give up everything and anything to achieve top 10% of my class regardless where I go.

The effort it takes to retake and improve five points is nothing compared to the effort required to make the top 10 percent at even the worst of TTTs. This is a terrible plan.

So please stop telling me to retake

Sorry to be harsh, but if you want biglaw, nobody who is being honest/is not a moron will tell you that you have a legit option but retaking. You can't handle getting a 165 but you can handle getting to and surviving in the top of the legal profession?

I understand. Thank you for taking the time to read my thread. I appreciate it.

[McAvoy]

I didn't say go to Iowa at sticker price. I said that it's the better school and has better job prospects when comparing it to Brooklyn, which is something to think about. It has decent placement in the Midwest's big cities if you think you could live in the Midwest.

Iowa is a great school for people from Iowa who want to live and work in Iowa and have a good scholarship. OP is from LA and wants big city biglaw: Iowa is one of the last places that would make sense for such a situation.

This is my first time posting to a TLS forum,but I spent a lot of time reading through the forums during my application process, and it's hard not to find a thread about making a law school decision that doesn't include someone telling others to retake the LSAT.

Well welcome to the forum. I don't mean to be a douche about your advice, but ATL rankings are really meaningless for this situation: Iowa is not a national school. There is a reason people harp on retaking the LSAT, though: until you're scoring in the 98th percentile, it almost universally (drastically) improves one's position, and taking an extra year to get work experience is also almost universally a good thing for the typical applicant to do (both in admissions, COA and in finding a job in law school).

[McAvoy]

I understand. Thank you for taking the time to read my thread. I appreciate it.

I mean, good luck to you either way. We want to see everyone succeed and meet their goals, and Brooklyn or Iowa are seriously not the way for you to do that.

Your GPA is going to make a school that feeds into biglaw very tough either way, but if you can seriously improve your score, you can get to a situation that makes your goals attainable. Use the resources in the LSAT forum and pound away, and get some work experience along with it. Make sure law is the right career path for you, and explore options other than biglaw before you matriculate, because those will be your most likely landing spots unless you're getting your score into the 170s.

[TheSpanishMain]

7. I don't understand why people keep telling me to retake, I know that is an option but that is not included in this poll. I will not retake under any circumstances, I believe I can do well in law school and I am willing to give up everything and anything to achieve top 10% of my class regardless where I go. So please stop telling me to retake

There's no other option that makes sense for Big Law. Both of these schools are awful choices for you, and your confidence that you'll beat 90% of your classmates is completely unfounded. You have both a mediocre LSAT and a mediocre GPA. Everyone else plans to work just as hard and is willing to "give up everything", whatever that means. I'm not saying you're dumb; you may well be pretty sharp. But the only evidence we have suggests you're average.

The correct answer is retake. If you won't do that, then there's not really much anyone can say to you. Good luck.

[rickgrimes69]

OP: You have a crap GPA and a mediocre LSAT but you think you'll outscore 90% of your academic peers on arbitrary and subjective tests bc why...?

[TheSpanishMain]

This whole mindset is ridiculous, especially when people go "I know I'll crush 1L year! I'll do ANYTHING!"

The exchange I always picture is

"I'll do anything! I'll live in the library! I'll listen to BarBri in my sleep! I'll murder my classmates who look like they'll wreck the curve! I'll give handjobs to 2Ls for old outlines! ANYTHING!"

"Well, will you study for and retake a four hour test?"

"Well, no, of course I won't do THAT. Geez."

[banjo]

This whole mindset is ridiculous, especially when people go "I know I'll crush 1L year! I'll do ANYTHING!"

The exchange I always picture is

"I'll do anything! I'll live in the library! I'll listen to BarBri in my sleep! I'll murder my classmates who look like they'll wreck the curve! I'll give handjobs to 2Ls for old outlines! ANYTHING!"

"Well, will you study for and retake a four hour test?"

"Well, no, of course I won't do THAT. Geez."

+1.

The OP would apparently rather follow Arrow's method -- which involves reading 6 E&Es cover to cover during your 0L summer -- than retake an easily gamed test. It's clear that a lot of people just can't bear to see their friends/SOs move forward in life while they prepare for another ego-bruising bout with the LSAT. They're willing to throw away their careers for the short term comfort of having somewhere to be in six months.

[timbs4339]

OP: Posters are being harsh because they've seen this before. Nobody, or at least very few people, go into law school intending to coast. And even if you spent two extra hours per day in the library, it wouldn't matter, because (1)after a certain minimum time investment, brute force studying results in diminishing returns, (2) if you burn out, it's over. One average semester- not below average, but average, and you are out of the running for biglaw ( remember, biglaw hires only on the basis of first year grades, so an exceptional second year or third year means diddly).

Iowa has a relatively decent big firm score but remember that many of those jobs are going to be in smaller cities in the Midwest, not NY/DC/LA. Brooklyn is abysmal. The school is bleeding money and in financial trouble. It's biglaw placement is less than the win rate of the average casino slot machine.

[TheSpanishMain]

OP: Posters are being harsh because they've seen this before.

I'm being a little salty just because it annoys me when people proclaim how hard they'll work and how dedicated they are but refuse to retake the LSAT for no particular reason. It makes me think they're not serious about their own goals.

There are plenty of times when not retaking is defensible. If OP was going to a local school with some money and was fine with small firm work or local government, fine. For "Big Law in a big city", no.

[bjsesq]

7. I don't understand why people keep telling me to retake, I know that is an option but that is not included in this poll. I will not retake under any circumstances, I believe I can do well in law school and I am willing to give up everything and anything to achieve top 10% of my class regardless where I go. So please stop telling me to retake

Neither of these schools position you for your stated goals. But since you are so dedicated to driving the retard bus, I'M SURE YOU WILL DO GREAT. NOBODY ELSE THINKS THEY WILL DO AS WELL AS YOU. HIGH FIVE.

[McAvoy]

OP and I have been PMing and he thinks retaking would be a wasted year of his life.

Maybe chime in with your retaking stories for some (positive) encouragement.

[InTheHouse]

OP and I have been PMing and he thinks retaking would be a wasted year of his life.

Maybe chime in with your retaking stories for some (positive) encouragement.

And wasting one year now is worse than wasting decades after graduation? There's a thread somewhere with everyone's retakes stories.