URGENT!!! UCLA (sticker) or Wash U at 25/yr? NEED TO COMMIT Forum

[SowhatsNU]

Hi All, thought I'd create this thread in the hopes that someone can offer me some insight into this decision, I need to commit to either school by JUNE 9th!

I want to practice in Chicago, and I'd like to go into Biglaw (with loans these days who really has a choice?)

I got a total of 75k from Wash U, and got in off the waitlist at UCLA yesterday

I'm aware that cost of living in STL in much cheaper, but because it's just three years, that's not my main concern-I just want to attend the place that will set me up the best for my career goals, and I hear UCLA is a much more nationally recognized place, and the degree goes farther. (Especially if I go into Entertainment law, which I would love to do, but I hear is impossible to get a great job in).

Any advice would be really appreciated! Please let me know soon!! I need all the feedback I can get by June 9th!!!

[Mullens]

If you want Chicago Biglaw, you really really need to retake. Both of those schools are too expensive (especially UCLA at sticker) and don't really give you that good of a shot at biglaw. Have you calculated the total COAs for each school? With your GPA you could be looking at big money from Northwestern and UChicago if you can get your LSAT score up.

[star fox]

If you want Chicago Biglaw, you really really need to retake. Both of those schools are too expensive (especially UCLA at sticker) and don't really give you that good of a shot at biglaw. Have you calculated the total COAs for each school? With your GPA you could be looking at big money from Northwestern and UChicago if you can get your LSAT score up.

+1.

You're over northwestern 75th gpa percentile. Hit up the lsat forum on this site and make a decision from there.

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

put retake as an option that will be the clear winner

[SowhatsNU]

guys...i can't retake...

[star fox]

guys...i can't retake...

Explain why.

[Mullens]

I retook a 165 and took two years off in-between UG and starting law school. It's been an absolute blast and I ended up with a better outcome than I could've dreamed of without retaking. Get a job, enjoy life, retake the LSAT, go to a school that actually gives a reasonable shot at getting Chicago biglaw.

[SowhatsNU]

guys...please...like i said i can't retake...can we please take that off the table?

[johnnyquest]

guys...please...like i said i can't retake...can we please take that off the table?

Why?

[03152016]

You should forget all about UCLA at sticker. Pretend it never happened (except to try to negotiate more money out of other schools?).

You need to try to get more money out of WUSTL. 75k isn't enough to justify going, IMO. Of course, as others have said, retaking would be TCR. Maybe a year from now you'll be deciding which T14 free ride you'd like to choose.

[Big Dog]

two really bad choices.

Channel your inner Yoda: there is no can't (retake). Just do.

[Mullens]

guys...please...like i said i can't retake...can we please take that off the table?

No because it is objectively the best option, and the only defensible option.

UCLA shouldn't even be an option because it is so expensive and gives you almost no shot at Chicago biglaw. UCLA at sticker is $270,000+. It is absurd you are even considering this. Do you know how long it would take you to pay that back, even if you somehow manage to get biglaw? Have you calculated the loan payments? How many Chicago firms even go to UCLA's OCI? According to UCLA's LST profile, a whopping 0% of UCLA grads from the Class of 2013 are employed in Illinois.

With your scholarship at WashU, you will still be paying $180,000+. To pay this off you will need biglaw. Only 29% of WashU's class of 2013 is working in biglaw. Are those good enough odds to gamble on when the cost is so high? Certainly not to me, especially when you have a GPA that would allow you to get big money from much better schools.

Would you like to go to HYS or get big money from T14, lowering your COA and increasing your odds at biglaw? Because it's very possible if you retake.

[SowhatsNU]

guys...please...like i said i can't retake...can we please take that off the table?

No because it is objectively the best option, and the only defensible option.

UCLA shouldn't even be an option because it is so expensive and gives you almost no shot at Chicago biglaw. UCLA at sticker is $270,000+. It is absurd you are even considering this. Do you know how long it would take you to pay that back, even if you somehow manage to get biglaw? Have you calculated the loan payments? How many Chicago firms even go to UCLA's OCI? According to UCLA's LST profile, a whopping 0% of UCLA grads from the Class of 2013 are employed in Illinois.

With your scholarship at WashU, you will still be paying $180,000+. To pay this off you will need biglaw. Only 29% of WashU's class of 2013 is working in biglaw. Are those good enough odds to gamble on when the cost is so high? Certainly not to me, especially when you have a GPA that would allow you to get big money from much better schools.

Would you like to go to HYS or get big money from T14, lowering your COA and increasing your odds at biglaw? Because it's very possible if you retake.

I thought about that, and that's my dream, but i can't afford to take a year off and go through this whole cycle again. i wish i could but its just not in the cards for me

[Mullens]

What do you mean that you can't afford it? Please explain because I just don't get it. You could probably still get a job as a paralegal in Chicago biglaw. You will make enough to live on, I promise. Retaking could save you more than $150,000 in the long run. What you can't afford is to go to UCLA at sticker or WashU for $180,000+. Think of your future. Please.

[SowhatsNU]

What do you mean that you can't afford it? Please explain because I just don't get it. You could probably still get a job as a paralegal in Chicago biglaw. You will make enough to live on, I promise. Retaking could save you more than $150,000 in the long run. What you can't afford is to go to UCLA at sticker or WashU for $180,000+. Think of your future. Please.

I'm getting married in July. My wife also wants to go to grad school, but is waiting till I graduate so we won't be overloaded with debt.
If I get a job as a paralegal, chances are I won't even have the time left over to study to get what I need to go T14. and I've already taken it twice, if i dont do well the third time I may lose the spots I've already secured.

Wash U would be 21/yr with living expenses, which are dirt cheap in STL. I'm leaning towards that but I've heard from everyone it's a trap school, and that UCLA has more national recognition, especially if I want to go into entertainment law. But like you said 270,000 scares me to death.

Yelp.

[03152016]

What do you mean that you can't afford it? Please explain because I just don't get it. You could probably still get a job as a paralegal in Chicago biglaw. You will make enough to live on, I promise. Retaking could save you more than $150,000 in the long run. What you can't afford is to go to UCLA at sticker or WashU for $180,000+. Think of your future. Please.

I'm getting married in July. My wife also wants to go to grad school, but is waiting till I graduate so we won't be overloaded with debt.
If I get a job as a paralegal, chances are I won't even have the time left over to study to get what I need to go T14. and I've already taken it twice, if i dont do well the third time I may lose the spots I've already secured.

Wash U would be 21/yr with living expenses, which are dirt cheap in STL. I'm leaning towards that but I've heard from everyone it's a trap school, and that UCLA has more national recognition, especially if I want to go into entertainment law. But like you said 270,000 scares me to death.

Yelp.

How much do you think you could live off of, monthly? Just a guesstimate. Consider rent, food, transportation, personal hygiene, wardrobe, various odds and ends.

[03152016]

I wouldn't look too much into UCLA's "national recognition". It's a strong regional. And for entertainment law, wouldn't you rather be in LA anyways?

[Mullens]

What do you mean that you can't afford it? Please explain because I just don't get it. You could probably still get a job as a paralegal in Chicago biglaw. You will make enough to live on, I promise. Retaking could save you more than $150,000 in the long run. What you can't afford is to go to UCLA at sticker or WashU for $180,000+. Think of your future. Please.

I'm getting married in July. My wife also wants to go to grad school, but is waiting till I graduate so we won't be overloaded with debt. So you want to take out six figures of debt at a school that doesn't give you reasonable shot at every paying it off?
If I get a job as a paralegal, chances are I won't even have the time left over to study to get what I need to go T14.I was able to and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Plus you could, you know, figure out if you actually want to be a lawyer and I've already taken it twice, if i dont do well the third time I may lose the spots I've already secured. This isn't a valid concern. At this point I think you're better not going than attending either of your two options.

Wash U would be 21/yr with living expenses, which are dirt cheap in STL. what's your actual COA including accrued interest? Have you even done the math on this or looked up what your loan payments would be? I'm leaning towards that but I've heard from everyone it's a trap school, and that UCLA has more national recognition, especially if I want to go into entertainment law.Does this even exist in Chicago biglaw? Won't matter since literally no UCLA grads work in Illinois But like you said 270,000 scares me to death.

Yelp.

Have you talked to your fiance about this? Does you fiance understand the true costs and risk?

[DoveBodyWash]

lol Washu isn't a trap school. It's just an unwise option for too much debt, which can be true of basically any school at this point.

Tons of kids flock to American or GW at sticker price filled with D.C. dreams...or go to USC at sticker with starry-eyed hopes of making it big in entertainment law. But very few people run to WashU at sticker because they're blinded by some other attractive quality of the metro, unrealistic practice areas, or lay prestige. The only quality of the school that could potentially be trap-like is our tendency to give larger-than-average scholarships. But really? Are we gonna classify cheaper COA as a trap? It's an incentive that people are free to take if they wish.

Personally I wouldn't attend either at these costs and would retake. But i mean, this isn't a normative issue. There's no "right" and "wrong." This is your choice and you need to weigh the costs and benefits and make a decision you're comfortable with.

If you get good grades and get BigLaw or otherwise make enough money, you can pay the debt off. But it'll be difficult and there will be a lot of opportunities to fall off the path.

I'm a WUSTL student on a full ride and i have good grades, but if i had to pick between UCLA at sticker or WUSTL at 180k (and was absolutely unwilling to retake, which i wouldn't be but lets pretend) i would probably pick UCLA. Our Chicago placement isn't robust enough to justify 180k and UCLA has a bigger alumni network in a bigger market. Sure the debt would suck, but if it's gonna suck either way, better off betting it on the faster horse.

ETA: Just to be clear, i'm not advocating for UCLA at sticker..i would re-take and reapply. I was just giving the choice i would make if u put a gun to my head and didn't give me the retake option

[bkraut1]

Neither of these schools place in Chicago BigLaw. Look at the data on LST. UCLA's class of 2013 placed 0% into Chicago BigLaw and WashU does only marginally better in that market. At either school, you're gambling that you can make LR and finish in at least the top 20%, which is foolish for anyone to do (especially under the gun of huge debt). Other posters are not exaggerating when they say ET law doesn't really exist in Chicago BigLaw, especially from for UCLA or WashU grads.

Your wife is going to grad school? Even more of a reason not to go to either of these schools. Even if you got BigLaw, your loan payments would be suffocating, you wouldn't get Chicago BigLaw, and you would be working too much to really spend time with her. Even if taking time off means waiting 3-5 years to go to law school, that's unquestionably the better decision. There are situations in which debt is justifiable, but this definitely isn't one of them.

[BigZuck]

Your plan doesn't sound realistic at all OP, can you explain to me how it's realistic?

You want entertainment law? What is that? And you want big law in Chicago? How likely is that with these options? And if you did get it, what would it look like to pay off the debt?

And are you saying that you want entertainment big law in Chicago? Can you define what that is?