Michigan vs. Illinois Forum

The Dark Kite · Post by **The Dark Kite** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:25 pm

If trolls want to troll, fine. But I'd really appreciate some insightful feedback.

Should I attend Illinois with a full tuition scholarship or Michigan at sticker?

It's difficult to think about passing up on a T14 but graduating without debt is extremely appealing.

I'd like to work in the Chicago market.

transferror · Post by **transferror** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:32 pm

Illinois hands down

MistakenGenius · Post by **MistakenGenius** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:36 pm

Post removed.

Nova · Post by **Nova** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:38 pm

MistakenGenius wrote:I hate when idiots say "hands down" when we don't even have all the information we need.

but do you have to be such a douche about it

Nova · Post by **Nova** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:40 pm

answer these questions

[color=#B000FF]Mods[/color] wrote:-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT

The Dark Kite · Post by **The Dark Kite** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:51 pm

Nova wrote:answer these questions

[color=#B000FF]Mods[/color] wrote:-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT

-I'll be using my savings and my parents will be helping me out if I go to Illy. I'll be taking out loans if I go to Michigan because none of us can afford the COA of Mich at sticker.

-I worked in NYC's financial district in the legal sector for a couple of years and have made pretty good contacts at some of the bigger firms downtown but probably not strong enough to email for a job

-I'd like to work in big law for a bit/eventually make my way into a general counsel's office for a reputable business

-I'm not retaking the LSAT. I see the value in that suggestion and recognize it as a go-to on TLS, but I've thought long and hard about it and there's no way I'm taking a third year off. I'm already 100% set on attending law school in 2014.

francesfarmer · Post by **francesfarmer** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:53 pm

The Dark Kite wrote:
Nova wrote:answer these questions

[color=#B000FF]Mods[/color] wrote:-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT
-I'll be using my savings and my parents will be helping me out if I go to Illy. I'll be taking out loans if I go to Michigan because none of us can afford the COA of Mich at sticker.

-I worked in NYC's financial district in the legal sector for a couple of years and have made pretty good contacts at some of the bigger firms downtown but probably not strong enough to email for a job

-I'd like to work in big law for a bit/eventually make my way into a general counsel's office for a reputable business

-I'm not retaking the LSAT. I see the value in that suggestion and recognize it as a go-to on TLS, but I've thought long and hard about it and there's no way I'm taking a third year off. I'm already 100% set on attending law school in 2014.

You did not answer the first question.

The Dark Kite · Post by **The Dark Kite** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:07 pm

francesfarmer wrote: You did not answer the first question.

Missed it! Sorry:

COA at Illy over 3 years will come to ~$75k versus MICH which will be ~$225k.

unodostres · Post by **unodostres** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:09 pm

how can you be deadset on not waiting another year that can benefit you for the rest of your life?

The Dark Kite · Post by **The Dark Kite** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:10 pm

unodostres wrote:how can you be deadset on not waiting another year that can benefit you for the rest of your life?

Because I am. And you'll just have to take that on its face because I'm not looking to get into that discussion here. Thank you.

Nova · Post by **Nova** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:12 pm

The Dark Kite wrote:
francesfarmer wrote: You did not answer the first question.
Missed it! Sorry:

COA at Illy over 3 years will come to ~$50k versus MICH which will be ~$200k.

what are Mich big law odds? like 50/50? 60/40?

id be way to scared to make that bet.

otoh if you wouldn't be happy with typical nonbiglaw outcomes, you should avoid UIUC entirely

mw115 · Post by **mw115** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:20 pm

Ann Arbor is more expensive than Urbana-Champaign and if you really want to practice in Chicago your prospects aren't that starkly different whether you go to Illinois or Michigan, especially if you do well at Illinois. If you screw up, than you have no debt from Illinois, but would be saddled with $150-$200 from Michigan to pay off with no easily attainable means of doing so. So yeah, hands down Illinois.

rad lulz · Post by **rad lulz** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:26 pm

Your career goals say mich

The cost of mich says Illinois

Retake or reevaluate your career goals

unodostres · Post by **unodostres** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:27 pm

The Dark Kite wrote:
unodostres wrote:how can you be deadset on not waiting another year that can benefit you for the rest of your life?
Because I am. And you'll just have to take that on its face because I'm not looking to get into that discussion here. Thank you.

good luck then. wrong choice thou

Ramius · Post by **Ramius** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:30 pm

unodostres wrote:
The Dark Kite wrote:
unodostres wrote:how can you be deadset on not waiting another year that can benefit you for the rest of your life?
Because I am. And you'll just have to take that on its face because I'm not looking to get into that discussion here. Thank you.
good luck then. wrong choice thou

+1. Go to Illinois, so if things don't work out, you won't be effed. Be prepared for a non-big law outcome though.

McAvoy · Post by **McAvoy** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:31 pm

Don't go to Michigan at that price.

If you're dead-set on Chicago biglaw but you're not interested in non-biglaw career paths, IUIC is fine, but be ready to drop out post OCI if you don't get like top third in 1L/strikeout.

transferror · Post by **transferror** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:52 pm

MistakenGenius wrote:I hate when idiots say "hands down" when we don't even have all the information we need. What are your goals? Numbers?

Name a situation where Michigan at sticker makes sense over a full ride at Illinois for someone who wants to be in Chicago...

I agree I should've known LSAT/GPA/number of takes first, but come on dude

jbagelboy · Post by **jbagelboy** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:55 pm

~~I thought you were going to minnesota or something~~

nvm, that's shepard. got the two of you confused.

jbagelboy · Post by **jbagelboy** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:59 pm

honestly there are plenty of kids from local schools like Illinois at large firms in their secondary market. If we can't say "go to U of Illinois on full scholarship for chicago private sector," what are we here for?

Go to Illinois, with the understanding that if you make it into top quarter of the class, you've got a solid shot at your goal, and if you don't, it's not happening.

rad lulz · Post by **rad lulz** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:03 pm

MistakenGenius · Post by **MistakenGenius** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:43 pm

Post removed.

star fox · Post by **star fox** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:53 pm

I would say go for Illinois. Aim for good grades but immediately start thinking of a backup since odds on BigLaw will be tough.

Don't do Michigan at sticker. That's a coin flip chance of being like mega screwed. If you really want to go T14 then re-take.

03152016 · Post by **03152016** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:08 pm

The Dark Kite wrote:
francesfarmer wrote: You did not answer the first question.
Missed it! Sorry:

COA at Illy over 3 years will come to ~$75k versus MICH which will be ~$225k.

Don't be overly optimistic. LST shows total debt-financed COA at $272k non-resident, $261k resident. LS22's cost calculator show's total debt financed COA at $258k non-resident, $247k resident.

jbagelboy · Post by **jbagelboy** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:13 pm

MistakenGenius wrote:
transferror wrote:
MistakenGenius wrote:I hate when idiots say "hands down" when we don't even have all the information we need. What are your goals? Numbers?
Name a situation where Michigan at sticker makes sense over a full ride at Illinois for someone who wants to be in Chicago...

I agree I should've known LSAT/GPA/number of takes first, but come on dude
I've got a damn respiratory virus and am in a shit mood today. I'm sorry for calling you an idiot. That was overboard. OP, I don't know what to tell you. I wanted to know more because I suspected this was the case. Illinois is likely not going to get you where you want to be, but Michigan has become one of the worst performing T14s and it's difficult to justify sticker there. Here are your two options, you go to Illinois without too much debt, but you only have a 25% chance of achieving your goals. Or you go to Michigan, have a much higher chance of reaching your goals, but will be crippled by debt and forced into certain jobs. You should retake and we all know you don't have any good enough excuse other than laziness, but since you're content to fuck yourself over, I'm going to say Michigan. You might be crushed with debt for a while, but at least you'll have a reasonable shot at your goals. It doesn't matter if you don't have much debt if you're not able to do what you want to do with your JD.

The thing is "goals" aren't really good enough to justify debt for 0Ls because they do not know what these goals consist of. Making it to a large firm is not what a prospective law student believes it to be; same goes for clerking in chambers or working for the department of justice. Low debt is much more freeing in this circumstance than the added chance at "goals" one does not truly comprehend. Also this isn't illinois v yale. There's a very real chance of striking out at michigan, especially for someone who has shown reluctance to retake and hit the par of the rest of the class.

Hutz_and_Goodman · Post by **Hutz_and_Goodman** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:15 pm

Illinois and its not close