Should i do it? Forum

[should-i-do-it]

Here's my info: graduated two years ago (poly sci 162/3.1) decided not to go to law school first time around, applied again next year with the same stats, joined local state school for a summer program but withdrew after a few weeks(just about 50% of the ppl at this school get jobs and I didn't want to take that risk after I found out). I've considered going back to undergrad to get an engineering degree or take some pre med classes and apply to med school but I really can't see my self studying those subjects. Law is something I am actually interested in but the terrible employment opportunities/lack of, scare me. I'm now considering retaking and applying in the fall to T20 schools if I can get the lsat high enough. Should I go for it or are the job opportunities so bad that it's not even worth it? Thankfully I will have a bit of help paying for school, but at this point time is more important than money, i.e. I need to figure out what I'm going to do with my life.

[ManoftheHour]

That 3.1 is going to hurt you when applying to med school. Pre med is no joke. You have to get at least a 3.5 (which is considered pretty bad) in a major with tons of science courses. You should be at about a 3.7 to be median. Also, that 3.1 you got with your non science degree will still be factored in your overall GPA (although not as heavily since med schools care more about your "science GPA."). And I haven't even gotten to the part about the MCAT...

I'm not saying don't do it. For all I know, you could be a stellar science student. Just know that if you do fail, that's going to suck big time. It's a tough road for sure. All I'm saying is you don't just decide one day, "Hey, I'm going to go to med school." It's not that easy. A lot of people fail to get into even one med school and they've wanted it for much longer. If you "can't see yourself studying those subjects," you're gonna have a bad time. You might just be average and end up with a 3.3 bio degree, which is pretty much as useless as a poly sci degree.

The engineering degree route is more understandable, assuming you want to be an engineer.

If law is what you want to do, why not find a job, study for the LSAT, and then retake when you are ready? You seem willing enough to start from scratch so you should be okay with just taking time off to study a learnable exam, no? You probably won't be getting $$$ from the T-14s, but I'm sure you'd still be able to land a sizable scholarship at a strong regional.

Also, why not paralegal?

[ymmv]

Here's my info: graduated two years ago (poly sci 162/3.1) decided not to go to law school first time around, applied again next year with the same stats, joined local state school for a summer program but withdrew after a few weeks(just about 50% of the ppl at this school get jobs and I didn't want to take that risk after I found out). I've considered going back to undergrad to get an engineering degree or take some pre med classes and apply to med school but I really can't see my self studying those subjects. Law is something I am actually interested in but the terrible employment opportunities/lack of, scare me. I'm now considering retaking and applying in the fall to T20 schools if I can get the lsat high enough. Should I go for it or are the job opportunities so bad that it's not even worth it? Thankfully I will have a bit of help paying for school, but at this point time is more important than money, i.e. I need to figure out what I'm going to do with my life.

It doesn't sound like you have any serious interest in medicine, but if you do you should look at post-bac programs. Yes, it costs a lot to take an extra year of school, but it will provide you with a B.S.'s worth of core sciences education and make it much, much easier to get into med school, especially if you do a link program (basically a way of bypassing normal admissions process).

[should-i-do-it]

Two more things: I would actually probably apply for podiatry school (which is a lot easier to get into than an md granting med school) or go for a physicians associate degree. Both options provide a much greater chance of being employed and also have higher salaries (100k+) Although as you guys have correctly stated, I don't really care much for science and thus would probably have a difficult time studying for these classes = not do so well.

Correct me if I'm wrong ( I haven't really payed much attention to law school admissions for this past year since I had earlier decided I wasn't going to go) but it seems like a lot of strong regional schools (emory, george washington, wash stl) have lowered their admission standards a bit (-1/-2 on the lsat at least) thus making it a bit easier to get into a decent school, which has somewhat encouraged me to retake

[ManoftheHour]

He's not getting in even if he went straight As in a post bac. The only people who do post bacs are people who have shitty UG science GPAs to slightly boost their chances. It's not going to make it "much much easier" to get into med school. If it made it that much easier, so many more people would major in something easy (like poly sci) and just get post bacs. I know people with sub 3.5 bio GPAs who aced post bacs and still have not gotten into one med school. One guy gave up and went the route of PA instead.

Also, OP is needs tons of volunteer hours at clinics and about 5-7 LORs if he's serious about this.

And oh yeah, with that 3.1 weighing you down like a ton of bricks, you gotta KILL the MCAT.

[ManoftheHour]

OP, if you kill the LSAT, I'm sure you'll find a favorable option somewhere, even with a 3.1. The LSAT is very learnable.

[ymmv]

Two more things: I would actually probably apply for podiatry school (which is a lot easier to get into than an md granting med school) or go for a physicians associate degree. Both options provide a much greater chance of being employed and also have higher salaries (100k+)

Correct me if I'm wrong ( I haven't really payed much attention to law school admissions for this past year since I had earlier decided I wasn't going to go) but it seems like a lot of strong regional schools (emory, george washington, wash stl) have lowered their admission standards a bit (-1/-2 on the lsat at least) thus making it a bit easier to get into a decent school, which has somewhat encouraged me to retake

There is no way you should attend those schools unless you want to work in that particular region and/or they give you a very substantial scholarship. In which case, go for it. But to be honest it doesn't sound like you have a clue what you want to do with your life, so I don't recommend law school until you figure out if that's really it.

[ManoftheHour]

But to be honest it doesn't sound like you have a clue what you want to do with your life, so I don't recommend law school until you figure out if that's really it.

This. Seriously, this.

[ymmv]

He's not getting in even if he went straight As in a post bac. The only people who do post bacs are people who have shitty UG science GPAs to slightly boost their chances. It's not going to make it "much much easier" to get into med school. If it made it that much easier, so many more people would major in something easy (like poly sci) and just get post bacs. I know people with sub 3.5 bio GPAs who aced post bacs and still have not gotten into one med school. One guy gave up and went the route of PA instead.

Also, OP is needs tons of volunteer hours at clinics and about 5-7 LORs if he's serious about this.

And oh yeah, with that 3.1 weighing you down like a ton of bricks, you gotta KILL the MCAT.

And I know people who had 3.0-range GPAs and linked into med schools from post bac programs. Of course, that's anecdote, which OP should not be basing life decisions on anyway, but he can look up program statistics if he's remotely serious about this (which he does not seem to be). I'm sure there are med school equivalents of TLS.

[should-i-do-it]

Where I'm working/what I'm doing isn't really that big of deal, I just need a good jerb and I'm kind of running out of time to decide what I want to do. The good thing about engineering is that you've got a really good chance of getting a job, especially if I do petroleum (although that is becoming saturated as well) but I think there's a good chance I would get into Calc and hate it. Law is actually interesting but I don't have 3 years to waste.

[03152016]

You're running out of time? How do you figure?

Don't rush into what could be a $300k mistake. You have to do your due diligence. Talk to every lawyer you know about what their day-to-day is like. Find out what they like and dislike about the job. Get a job in a law firm or do a legal internship. Doesn't need to be a prestigious gig; I worked in a small firm in a rural area and got a lot out of the experience. Read as much as you can: TLS, Law School Transparency, the scamblogs, the Vale thread (in Legal Employment). Then, if you're sure you want to go to law school, retake the LSAT.

No matter how tired you were of renting, you wouldn't rush into buying a house without doing research just because you wanted to GET ON WITH IT, would you? So why do the same thing with your career?

[twenty]

was hoping this thread was about sex, or at least choking on a pubic hair.

basically, three years is a ridiculously long time to spend on a degree that you don't really have the GPA for and aren't really positive you want to do. if you end up going down this path, you must retake the LSAT and end up with a 167+ score, otherwise you're WAY better off walking away instead of just mostly better walking away.

honestly it sounds like you don't know what you want to do, and that's probably a recipe for being miserable no matter what. no one here can tell you what you should do with your life because none of us are you. I can tell you that if I were in your position, I'd probably enlist while doing some online ABET-accredited engineering program for 2-3 years and then consider your options. now you have veteran's preference for jobs, a GI bill worth 200k+, 2-3 years of solid work experience that paid pretty decently, a shitload of other benefits, and excluding boot camp, probably had a decent time of it as well. if you wanted to do law school at that point, you could retake the LSAT for NU/UVA/some other splitter friendly school, go for free, and then go for IP if that's what you want to do.

but that's just me.

[muskies970]

I just need a good jerb

Serious non trolling questions:

1. What to you qualifies as a "good job"?
2. Why do you need a certain "good job?"
Is it to make you happy? to please your parents or a significant other? To fulfill a certain set of expectations for yourself?

Because honestly that sort of mentality can only, in my opinion, lead to unhappiness. I mean this in the sincerest way, you sound like you could use some time off figuring out what you really want from life and what you need to do to make yourself happy, so you don't rush into a decision for the wrong reasons that will eventually lead to more unhappiness.

You don't "need" anything job related to make you happy, especially not something that requires putting yourself into debt, and spending large amounts of time studying just to continue working the rest of your life in the field. I know you said law is interesting to you, but from reading your posts I get the sense that that is a very small part of the equation and you are being pressured for other, unhealthy reasons. As the other posters have said try working for a few years to consider other options and experience more life, there is no rush.

[pom fig]

Correct me if I'm wrong ( I haven't really payed much attention to law school admissions for this past year since I had earlier decided I wasn't going to go) but it seems like a lot of strong regional schools (emory, george washington, wash stl) have lowered their admission standards a bit (-1/-2 on the lsat at least) thus making it a bit easier to get into a decent school, which has somewhat encouraged me to retake

You're overlooking the fact that there is an important reason why such schools are lowering admission standards: word has gotten out to prospective students that attending law school will not be a prudent economical decision for a significant portion of the class, and as a result schools are having trouble trying to round up enough students of previous years' LSAT caliber.

Just because it has gotten slightly "easier" to get into certain "decent" schools doesn't mean that it is something you should try to do. Your decision to attend law school and become a lawyer will need to rest on much more than that, and right now it seems like you are still unsure of what you want.
Do some soul-searching and figure out what career path you want. That probably needs to be resolved first.

[Lebrarian_Booker]

was hoping this thread was about sex, or at least choking on a pubic hair.

Glad to see I'm not the only one who came in here looking for that

[should-i-do-it]

Yes, I am a bit confused about what I want to do, but if I had to choose one career path it would be law. I do have experience working in a law firm and I know a few lawyers so I have a general idea about what I would be doing. My question is, is even going to a good law school worth it anymore. I see people on here encouraging people to avoid even some strong regional/ T20 school's because the market is so bad. Does it really matter if I really want to become a lawyer if there isn't going to be a job there when I graduate?

[ymmv]

Yes, I am a bit confused about what I want to do, but if I had to choose one career path it would be law. I do have experience working in a law firm and I know a few lawyers so I have a general idea about what I would be doing. My question is, is even going to a good law school worth it anymore. I see people on here encouraging people to avoid even some strong regional/ T20 school's because the market is so bad. Does it really matter if I really want to become a lawyer if there isn't going to be a job there when I graduate?

I will be honest: with your LSAT/GPA, I would not go to law school even if I were certain (which you are not) that I wanted to be a lawyer. If you can raise your LSAT to a reasonable level - like, 174 reasonable - you might have a shot at making it worthwhile.

But someone with your numbers who isn't even sure he wants to practice law? Don't do it, man.
Find a job or internship somewhere. Take some time to do some soul-searching. Network to figure out what you're interested in. But don't jump into making a decision that could likely be the biggest regret of your life.

[should-i-do-it]

I'm definitely not going to law school with the numbers I currently have, and am thinking of retaking in Sept and applying after that. How realistic is it to raise my score from a 162 to a something that could get me into a top school with the gpa I have? I did study for quite some time when I first took it but that was 2 years ago. Do you think going to a school like WashStl/Emory/BC is worth it or is it only safe to go to a T14 school now. Like I said earlier I wouldn't have a lot of debt since I'll have help paying for school, but if the jobs prospects aren't great I'd rather not waste the money.

[03152016]

I'm definitely not going to law school with the numbers I currently have, and am thinking of retaking in Sept and applying after that. How realistic is it to raise my score from a 162 to a something that could get me into a top school with the gpa I have? I did study for quite some time when I first took it but that was 2 years ago. Do you think going to a school like WashStl/Emory/BC is worth it or is it only safe to go to a T14 school now. Like I said earlier I wouldn't have a lot of debt since I'll have help paying for school, but if the jobs prospects aren't great I'd rather not waste the money.

Sure, if you put some serious time into prep you can raise your score into the 170s. Remember though, even if you kill it, that still doesn't mean you have to go. A lot of people get a high score and feel like they have to attend or they'll "waste it". Really think carefully about this.

WUSTL, Emory, and BC are fine depending on where you want to practice and how much of a discount you get. It all depends. BC with $$$ targeting Boston is a good outcome, BC sticker targeting California is suicidal.

[should-i-do-it]

Like I said it doesn't really matter where I'm working. I'd like to have a job that pays 75k+. I know this is getting into another forum topic but any suggestions on materials to improve my score. I used the lr/lg bibles last time, have all the pt's and am going to get the LSAT Trainer, reading is what got me last time (-12), shooting for 170+

[ManoftheHour]

Like I said it doesn't really matter where I'm working. I'd like to have a job that pays 75k+. I know this is getting into another forum topic but any suggestions on materials to improve my score. I used the lr/lg bibles last time, have all the pt's and am going to get the LSAT Trainer, reading is what got me last time (-12), shooting for 170+

You need to drill questions by type:

http://www.cambridgelsat.com/problem-se ... reasoning/

[timbs4339]

Like I said it doesn't really matter where I'm working. I'd like to have a job that pays 75k+.

This is not really how it works. Search bimodal salary distribution. There are three groups of law grads, a small group that makes 125K-160K, a larger group that makes 40-65K, and then a group that makes $0 or a pittance. There are very few jobs that will pay 75K+.