Why Debt Matters even if you "want PI" Forum

[09042014]

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=230075

Look at this person. Did everything right and still can't find an LRAP eligible job.

[bearsfan23]

It matters, but given how insanely expensive any law school is, it only matters to a certain extent.

If you're set on PI, there really isn't much of a difference between $200k of debt and $300k of debt, so you might as well go all in on the school with the better LRAP and job options.

Realistically, you probably need to how less than $100k of debt (including interest), to have any shot of paying it off on a regular repayment plan at a PI/Gov salary.

[worldtraveler]

75% or more of people set on PI will end up at a firm. You are deluding yourself if you think otherwise.

[twenty]

I've actually grown to like your poasting, DF, and I know that's despite your best efforts. It's kind of an acquired taste.

Anyway. I'm not sure where you're getting "that debt matters even if you want PI" from this post (not that I don't agree for other reasons, however). The clerkship will count for a year of PSLF-qualifying work, so it's not like he's lost any time on that front. This kind of situation isn't really even that unusual all things being considered. People that are gunning for PI/government should expect this kind of turmoil going into law school on day one.

[DELG]

It matters, but given how insanely expensive any law school is, it only matters to a certain extent.

If you're set on PI, there really isn't much of a difference between $200k of debt and $300k of debt, so you might as well go all in on the school with the better LRAP and job options.

Realistically, you probably need to how less than $100k of debt (including interest), to have any shot of paying it off on a regular repayment plan at a PI/Gov salary.

This post is totally incoherent

If you land the LRAP-eligible job it doesn't matter what you can afford on the LRAP-eligible job

[DELG]

I've actually grown to like your poasting, DF, and I know that's despite your best efforts. It's kind of an acquired taste.

Anyway. I'm not sure where you're getting "that debt matters even if you want PI" from this post (not that I don't agree for other reasons, however). The clerkship will count for a year of PSLF-qualifying work, so it's not like he's lost any time on that front. This kind of situation isn't really even that unusual all things being considered. People that are gunning for PI/government should expect this kind of turmoil going into law school on day one.

Another incoherent post

He can't get his NEXT PSLF-eligible job and has a 1 yr gig now so it supports exactly what DF is talking about (if you can't get a perm PSLF/LRAP job you're incredibly fucked)

The fact people should expect to end up like this only supports that further

[dudley12]

who is the recurring babe in IAFG's tar

[DELG]

Not a Will & Grace fan I take it

[09042014]

I've actually grown to like your poasting, DF, and I know that's despite your best efforts. It's kind of an acquired taste.

Anyway. I'm not sure where you're getting "that debt matters even if you want PI" from this post (not that I don't agree for other reasons, however). The clerkship will count for a year of PSLF-qualifying work, so it's not like he's lost any time on that front. This kind of situation isn't really even that unusual all things being considered. People that are gunning for PI/government should expect this kind of turmoil going into law school on day one.

My point is the turmoil makes it so that you cannot count on a PSLF eligible job. You still have to feed yourself.

[twenty]

I've actually grown to like your poasting, DF, and I know that's despite your best efforts. It's kind of an acquired taste.

Anyway. I'm not sure where you're getting "that debt matters even if you want PI" from this post (not that I don't agree for other reasons, however). The clerkship will count for a year of PSLF-qualifying work, so it's not like he's lost any time on that front. This kind of situation isn't really even that unusual all things being considered. People that are gunning for PI/government should expect this kind of turmoil going into law school on day one.

Another incoherent post

He can't get his NEXT PSLF-eligible job and has a 1 yr gig now so it supports exactly what DF is talking about (if you can't get a perm PSLF/LRAP job you're incredibly fucked)

The fact people should expect to end up like this only supports that further

First, stop being a pill.

Second, it doesn't really matter because nowhere in OP's post are the words "I have a crushing amount of debt and that's why I'm fucked." I get to why that'd be really convenient to assume, and I'm willing to play along, but the reality is that basically any debt above cost of living + bar loans will quickly put a PI gunning student into "LRAP-or-bust" territory. OP is far from fucked, even if he ends up being unemployed for the next year -- but if that kind of insecurity is scary, then (as a entering law student) don't gun for PI at all.

The hard thing for TLS to accept, for whatever reason, is that if you want to gun for PI and you don't want to end up like this fellow, you should probably attend a T1 for less than 90k COA. That's the only way to completely check back against ending up in a scenario like this, because no matter what happens, our hypothetical grad is going to come out okay (i.e, not relying on PSLF at all). Anything above 90k COA, you are literally just as screwed whether you came out of GULC with a 90k scholarship, or Harvard at sticker.

[twenty]

My point is the turmoil makes it so that you cannot count on a PSLF eligible job. You still have to feed yourself.

I have no problem with this.

edit> Like I said before, it should be expected: and if that bothers you (a hypothetical 0L), then seriously reconsider going to law school.

[09042014]

My point is the turmoil makes it so that you cannot count on a PSLF eligible job. You still have to feed yourself.

I have no problem with this.

Ok, well it's the point of the thread. So . . .

[DELG]

I've actually grown to like your poasting, DF, and I know that's despite your best efforts. It's kind of an acquired taste.

Anyway. I'm not sure where you're getting "that debt matters even if you want PI" from this post (not that I don't agree for other reasons, however). The clerkship will count for a year of PSLF-qualifying work, so it's not like he's lost any time on that front. This kind of situation isn't really even that unusual all things being considered. People that are gunning for PI/government should expect this kind of turmoil going into law school on day one.

Another incoherent post

He can't get his NEXT PSLF-eligible job and has a 1 yr gig now so it supports exactly what DF is talking about (if you can't get a perm PSLF/LRAP job you're incredibly fucked)

The fact people should expect to end up like this only supports that further

First, stop being a pill.

Second, it doesn't really matter because nowhere in OP's post are the words "I have a crushing amount of debt and that's why I'm fucked." I get to why that'd be really convenient to assume, and I'm willing to play along, but the reality is that basically any debt above cost of living + bar loans will quickly put a PI gunning student into "LRAP-or-bust" territory. OP is far from fucked, even if he ends up being unemployed for the next year -- but if that kind of insecurity is scary, then (as a entering law student) don't gun for PI at all.

The hard thing for TLS to accept, for whatever reason, is that if you want to gun for PI and you don't want to end up like this fellow, you should probably attend a T1 for less than 90k COA. That's the only way to completely check back against ending up in a scenario like this, because no matter what happens, our hypothetical grad is going to come out okay (i.e, not relying on PSLF at all). Anything above 90k COA, you are literally just as screwed whether you came out of GULC with a 90k scholarship, or Harvard at sticker.

even if that OP owes $0, the situation is, as admitted by you, common so it doesn't matter what he owes

Owing $90k w no legal job prospects still ducking blows, I don't get how $90k is somehow manageable w no job prospects

[twenty]

DF: No, because whether or not OP has any debt is basically entirely separate from the fact he can't have a job. I completely agree (and have said as much) that having debt makes not having a job suck more but the debt isn't the original suckage he's talking about in his thread, it's the uniquely shitty PI/government hiring pool. As the thread points out, he's been gunning for PD's office since day one and still can't get a job. Guess what, it didn't matter if he went to Chicago or University of San Diego -- he still wasn't going to be employed at the PD's office.

IAFG: Yes, and that's my point -- it doesn't matter what he owes. Owing 90k and not relying on PSLF certainly blows less but he's in this position because it's a really common position to be in, not because he took out debt. This isn't a warning narrative about how debt is bad, this is a warning narrative about how gunning for PI is bad.

[worldtraveler]

The point is you can't count on getting a PI job even with great credentials, so taking on debt and saying LOL I'm PI it doesn't matter is not a good move for a lot of people. Whether this one guy had debt or not is irrelevant.

How this is controversial, I don't understand.

[twenty]

Everyone's in agreement, but you've been on TLS long enough to know that any opportunity for belittlement is one worth taking advantage of.

[rayiner]

I've actually grown to like your poasting, DF, and I know that's despite your best efforts. It's kind of an acquired taste.

Anyway. I'm not sure where you're getting "that debt matters even if you want PI" from this post (not that I don't agree for other reasons, however). The clerkship will count for a year of PSLF-qualifying work, so it's not like he's lost any time on that front. This kind of situation isn't really even that unusual all things being considered. People that are gunning for PI/government should expect this kind of turmoil going into law school on day one.

EDIT: Never mind.

[NYSprague]

I've actually grown to like your poasting, DF, and I know that's despite your best efforts. It's kind of an acquired taste.

Anyway. I'm not sure where you're getting "that debt matters even if you want PI" from this post (not that I don't agree for other reasons, however). The clerkship will count for a year of PSLF-qualifying work, so it's not like he's lost any time on that front. This kind of situation isn't really even that unusual all things being considered. People that are gunning for PI/government should expect this kind of turmoil going into law school on day one.

Clerkships do not qualify for PSLF.

I'm surprised. Why not?

[chris0805]

I've actually grown to like your poasting, DF, and I know that's despite your best efforts. It's kind of an acquired taste.

Anyway. I'm not sure where you're getting "that debt matters even if you want PI" from this post (not that I don't agree for other reasons, however). The clerkship will count for a year of PSLF-qualifying work, so it's not like he's lost any time on that front. This kind of situation isn't really even that unusual all things being considered. People that are gunning for PI/government should expect this kind of turmoil going into law school on day one.

Clerkships do not qualify for PSLF.

Really? I always thought clerkships do qualify. I didn't do a clerkship, and I'm using my school's LRAP exclusively over pursuing/relying on PSLF so I wouldn't be surprised if I'm wrong on this, but I thought any government or 501(c)(3) qualified as PSLF eligible.

[rayiner]

I've actually grown to like your poasting, DF, and I know that's despite your best efforts. It's kind of an acquired taste.

Anyway. I'm not sure where you're getting "that debt matters even if you want PI" from this post (not that I don't agree for other reasons, however). The clerkship will count for a year of PSLF-qualifying work, so it's not like he's lost any time on that front. This kind of situation isn't really even that unusual all things being considered. People that are gunning for PI/government should expect this kind of turmoil going into law school on day one.

Clerkships do not qualify for PSLF.

I'm surprised. Why not?

I'm full of shit. I see some sources say that a clerkship qualifies for a year of credit under the federal PSLF, but it looks like many school LRAP's do not cover it. Northwestern's doesn't appear to, which is why I assumed the federal program didn't.

[twenty]

In fairness, not having an LRAP that will cover your clerkship does kind of suck, since they're typically not especially well compensated and not having to make PAYE payments as a low income earner is pretty great.

[rad lulz]

Whenever an 0L especially one w no experience says they want to do any PI other than be a public defender I basically just assume they're not gonna do it

[09042014]

In fairness, not having an LRAP that will cover your clerkship does kind of suck, since they're typically not especially well compensated and not having to make PAYE payments as a low income earner is pretty great.

LRAP is retarded in the PAYE era period. Doubly so for people who are going to overwhelming just go to big law and get a 50k bonus.

[Young Marino]

The point is you can't count on getting a PI job even with great credentials, so taking on debt and saying LOL I'm PI it doesn't matter is not a good move for a lot of people. Whether this one guy had debt or not is irrelevant.

How this is controversial, I don't understand.

Yeah I completely agree here. I was about to make this mistake by attending a private tier 2 at sticker and saying "haha I'm PI, can't touch this!" But then you realize just how little you're making when you first start out as a local prosecutor. Thankfully I'm taking my talents elsewhere

[TheSpanishMain]

The point is you can't count on getting a PI job even with great credentials, so taking on debt and saying LOL I'm PI it doesn't matter is not a good move for a lot of people. Whether this one guy had debt or not is irrelevant.

How this is controversial, I don't understand.

Yeah I completely agree here. I was about to make this mistake by attending a private tier 2 at sticker and saying "haha I'm PI, can't touch this!" But then you realize just how little you're making when you first start out as a local prosecutor. Thankfully I'm taking my talents elsewhere

You should be taking your talents to an LSAT retake.