Prestige equity and a full ride regional vs. t14 + debt Forum

[ThatsGameB]

Disclaimer: 0L. First time poster (just found this site).

From what I understand choosing between a full ride (no stips) at a strong regional (MN, ND, WashU, UIUC etc) and debt at a lower-t14 comes down to personal goals, personal values, where you want to live, etc etc. However, i'm wondering if any general TLS wisdom exists on the matter when some of these factors are unknown.

For example, for the average person that is passionate about the law and knows they want a job practicing the law, but is not quite sure on a specific job yet (like big law vs. small law vs. PI etc), is a full ride at a strong regional school generally a better bet than a non-YHS t14 at sticker? What is the safest decision when it is one of these strong regionals vs. a school like NU or Cornell with $ or $$? Obviously these hypotheticals can go on and on, but how is one to evaluate prestige vs. debt without perfect information? Are the schools prestigious enough that the amount of doors opened and high salary jobs available > a large amount debt? Some of these regionals place 25-30% of their classes into big law which seems relevant as that door has the potential to be pried upon, though obviously not something to be banked on.

Is it just impossible to give any advice to the 0L that does not know what job they wish to secure yet in a situation like this? I only ask because finding what kind of job you want for a lot of people probably depends on the classes you take in 1L and the areas you gravitate towards.

Thanks for any thoughts TLS.

Edit: I realize retake is always an option, but retaking in a situation like this has an opportunity cost without clear benefit and is often times not always viable for splitters.

[papercut]

Disclaimer: 0L. First time poster (just found this site).

From what I understand choosing between a full ride (no stips) at a strong regional (MN, ND, WashU, UIUC etc) and debt at a lower-t14 comes down to personal goals, personal values, where you want to live, etc etc. However, i'm wondering if any general TLS wisdom exists on the matter when some of these factors are unknown.

For example, for the average person that is passionate about the law and knows they want a job practicing the law, but is not quite sure on a specific job yet (like big law vs. small law vs. PI etc), is a full ride at a strong regional school generally a better bet than a non-YHS t14 at sticker? What is the safest decision when it is one of these strong regionals vs. a school like NU or Cornell with $ or $$? Obviously these hypotheticals can go on and on, but how is one to evaluate prestige vs. debt without perfect information? Are the schools prestigious enough that the amount of doors opened and high salary jobs available > a large amount debt? Some of these regionals place 25-30% of their classes into big law which seems relevant as that door has the potential to be pried upon, though obviously not something to be banked on.

Is it just impossible to give any advice to the 0L that does not know what job they wish to secure yet in a situation like this? I only ask because finding what kind of job you want for a lot of people probably depends on the classes you take in 1L and the areas you gravitate towards.

Thanks for any thoughts TLS.

If you have no idea what you want to do, I'd take the safe path and go to LS for free.

Personally, I think a few schools outside of YHS are worth sticker, even though that's not a popular view on here, but that's assuming you're gunning for BigLaw.

If you'd be happy practicing law in a small firm, state gov't, or something like that, then I'd go with the full ride.

[redsoxfan1989]

Disclaimer: 0L. First time poster (just found this site).

From what I understand choosing between a full ride (no stips) at a strong regional (MN, ND, WashU, UIUC etc) and debt at a lower-t14 comes down to personal goals, personal values, where you want to live, etc etc. However, i'm wondering if any general TLS wisdom exists on the matter when some of these factors are unknown.

For example, for the average person that is passionate about the law and knows they want a job practicing the law, but is not quite sure on a specific job yet (like big law vs. small law vs. PI etc), is a full ride at a strong regional school generally a better bet than a non-YHS t14 at sticker? What is the safest decision when it is one of these strong regionals vs. a school like NU or Cornell with $ or $$? Obviously these hypotheticals can go on and on, but how is one to evaluate prestige vs. debt without perfect information? Are the schools prestigious enough that the amount of doors opened and high salary jobs available > a large amount debt? Some of these regionals place 25-30% of their classes into big law which seems relevant as that door has the potential to be pried upon, though obviously not something to be banked on.

Is it just impossible to give any advice to the 0L that does not know what job they wish to secure yet in a situation like this? I only ask because finding what kind of job you want for a lot of people probably depends on the classes you take in 1L and the areas you gravitate towards.

Thanks for any thoughts TLS.

Edit: I realize retake is always an option, but retaking in a situation like this has an opportunity cost without clear benefit and is often times not always viable for splitters.

I recommend work experience, perhaps as a paralegal in the area you are interested in, along with a retake. The options you have will still be there, and you will be glad you got the money and the experience of figuring out if/what kind of law is right for you.

[rayiner]

Nobody who is "passionate about the law should go to law school." Figure out what job you actually want then figure out how to get there. Also: retake.

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

There is no right answer, but given that it is possible to miss big law from any school, many people in biglaw dislike it and are actively trying to leave, and many people conclude they don't want to lawyers before they even finish law school, debt minimization is key. Without any (or much debt) you will have a lot more options.

[TooOld4This]

Because job opportunities vary widely depending on the school, you shouldn't go until you have decided what area of the country you want to live in and have a pretty good sense of what work environment you are looking for (or at least know what you don't want to do). Also "free" law school usually entails $70,000 in loans, unless you have substantial savings.

Regional schools will limit your career tragectory, as will substantial debt. Regional schools for free can be an excellent choice for a subset of jobs--but if you don't want that subset, you are stuck. T14 open up wider options, but if you are taking out more than $100,000 in loans, you have a very substantial downside risk AND your debt will constrain your career choices for a significant period of time.

Once you commit to a school, you are starting down a path that is very difficult to deviate from. The cost of choosing poorly will likely follow you for a good portion of your career. Take the time off and figure out what you want to do. Your future self will thank you.

[DELG]

Legal jobs are WILDLY different from one another. If you have no idea which ones you might like, you need to wait on this decision until you're more familiar. Get a paralegal job, stat.

[TheSpanishMain]

Personally, I think a few schools outside of YHS are worth sticker, even though that's not a popular view on here, but that's assuming you're gunning for BigLaw.

I think it's more popular than you realize. Assuming you're a generic "Big Law at first then something else" type, I don't even think YHS are a good idea at sticker. If you got into YHS, you probably have a lot of money elsewhere in the T14, and for those standard goals I think that's a better move.

[eljefe1]

Disclaimer: 0L. First time poster (just found this site).

From what I understand choosing between a full ride (no stips) at a strong regional (MN, ND, WashU, UIUC etc) and debt at a lower-t14 comes down to personal goals, personal values, where you want to live, etc etc. However, i'm wondering if any general TLS wisdom exists on the matter when some of these factors are unknown.

For example, for the average person that is passionate about the law and knows they want a job practicing the law, but is not quite sure on a specific job yet (like big law vs. small law vs. PI etc), is a full ride at a strong regional school generally a better bet than a non-YHS t14 at sticker? What is the safest decision when it is one of these strong regionals vs. a school like NU or Cornell with $ or $$? Obviously these hypotheticals can go on and on, but how is one to evaluate prestige vs. debt without perfect information? Are the schools prestigious enough that the amount of doors opened and high salary jobs available > a large amount debt? Some of these regionals place 25-30% of their classes into big law which seems relevant as that door has the potential to be pried upon, though obviously not something to be banked on.

Is it just impossible to give any advice to the 0L that does not know what job they wish to secure yet in a situation like this? I only ask because finding what kind of job you want for a lot of people probably depends on the classes you take in 1L and the areas you gravitate towards.

Thanks for any thoughts TLS.

Edit: I realize retake is always an option, but retaking in a situation like this has an opportunity cost without clear benefit and is often times not always viable for splitters.

Well, I was considering addressing this hypothetical scenario, but I found the above bolded statement to be so radical in its thought, that addressing the question isn't much of a concern to me anymore.

JK lolol.

You shouldn't go to law school if you don't know what kind of law you want to practice. I think the "passion for the law" held by your stipulated "average" person is really just a "general interest" in the law. With passion comes zeal, and with zeal comes intimate knowledge about a specific kind of law. Wait until you find what you're really interested in. Law school will sap whatever mental energy you did have to allocate to exploration of law careers, so you most likely won't "find yourself" in that environment. Plus, once you actually know what you want to do, you can train a laser guided missile on it.

[Otunga]

Disclaimer: 0L. First time poster (just found this site).

From what I understand choosing between a full ride (no stips) at a strong regional (MN, ND, WashU, UIUC etc) and debt at a lower-t14 comes down to personal goals, personal values, where you want to live, etc etc. However, i'm wondering if any general TLS wisdom exists on the matter when some of these factors are unknown.

For example, for the average person that is passionate about the law and knows they want a job practicing the law, but is not quite sure on a specific job yet (like big law vs. small law vs. PI etc), is a full ride at a strong regional school generally a better bet than a non-YHS t14 at sticker? What is the safest decision when it is one of these strong regionals vs. a school like NU or Cornell with $ or $$? Obviously these hypotheticals can go on and on, but how is one to evaluate prestige vs. debt without perfect information? Are the schools prestigious enough that the amount of doors opened and high salary jobs available > a large amount debt? Some of these regionals place 25-30% of their classes into big law which seems relevant as that door has the potential to be pried upon, though obviously not something to be banked on.

Is it just impossible to give any advice to the 0L that does not know what job they wish to secure yet in a situation like this? I only ask because finding what kind of job you want for a lot of people probably depends on the classes you take in 1L and the areas you gravitate towards.

Thanks for any thoughts TLS.

Edit: I realize retake is always an option, but retaking in a situation like this has an opportunity cost without clear benefit and is often times not always viable for splitters.

I recommend work experience, perhaps as a paralegal in the area you are interested in, along with a retake. The options you have will still be there, and you will be glad you got the money and the experience of figuring out if/what kind of law is right for you.

Sounds like a way to have the best of both worlds. Good advice.

[timbs4339]

My first option would be to get a paralegal position at a large law firm. If you have the stats to get a T14, you probably have the stats to grab a position there. Then, observe what the lawyers do and how they live, both on the client matters and pro bono, and see if you would be interested in that kind of lifestyle. Once you rule out or rule in biglaw, the decision is a lot easier.

If you don't want to take 2 years, then the best thing you could do is ask the following questions:

What kinds of clients do you see yourself representing? (corporations, individuals, accused, you don't like clients and want to work for the government?)
What kinds of matters? (do you want to do trials, appeals, work on deals, research legal issues?)
What salary/income level would you think of as the minimum (with or without the debt you'll be taking on?)
Do you have any interests that might translate to a specific area of law?

Note that these questions aren't supposed to identify the specific area of law your best suited for. What they are for is to see if you'd really be happy working small law, local government or PI, or you have your heart set on the more "prestigious" areas of law. You can still get the latter from a strong regional, but if you can't see yourself representing indigent defendants and making 47K a year for the first few years out of law school, you might want to take the T14.

[njdevils2626]

Incredibly relevant point that nobody has explicitly mentioned yet, but for a student who is unsure of what they want to do, going anywhere at sticker is a good way to make your mind up for you. With that level of debt you really only have one option - big law - to pay it off. If you really do not know what kind of law you want to practice, then you have to go for free if you plan on exploring your options while in school. TCR is to get some work experience in the field and retake, though.