WVU (full scholly) vs. Rutgers ($48k + tuition assistance) Forum

[whiterussian]

I'm a long time lurker, and I think I know the answer, but I would like some other input and points of view on the matter. Stats 3.33 GPA, 162 LSAT. I have one more retake left, but I'm really not interested in retaking and applying to better schools if it'll leave me in heavy debt. I only applied to schools where I knew I would get substantial money and am happy with that. I took the LSAT originally a few years ago, but I retook in February. Similar scores both times.

Rutgers total indebtedness at graduation: $0

I currently live in NJ and currently work for an employer that will provide tuition assistance up to the full price of tuition. I was also offered a scholarship of $48,000 which I can use as a backup if my employment were to terminate at my current job as long as I keep a 3.0. I have a decent job that is actually pretty easy. Pay is $49k but raises have been hard to come by recently. On the plus side though, I'm almost guaranteed a $15k-20k jump in 2-3 years and a better schedule because my immediate supervisor will surely retire as soon as eligible, and I'm 90% sure I would be the successor. The one problem here is that my office needs to keep office hours for the public, and on a good day I'm not out until 5:10-5:15, and I would then have to make a 30-mile drive in rush hour traffic to make it to class on time, something I'm not sure I can do on a regular basis. Worst case scenario here is that I try to make it work, and if I can't, I can take a leave of absence, try to find a new position, and try to attend again the next year.

WVU total indebtedness at graduation: $30-40k (including interest)

I have no ties to the area, but I've been there a few times, and I'd be ok with living there. Only a good-standing stip on the scholarship.

Pros: I would be able to attend full-time and not have to worry about being interrupted with a job. I would be able to get some legal experience before graduation, and I wouldn't miss out on law review, moot court, and networking opportunities.

Cons: I would have to give up a steady income with no guarantee that of a job when I graduated, I'm not from the area, and I wouldn't have anything to fall back on if I end up hating it.

I'm leaning heavily toward Rutgers right now. I really would like to attend full-time somewhere, but I'm not comfortable giving up a steady job in this economy, even if it's not something I love. What do you think?

TL;DR-Full scholly WVU with no stips but would have to quit job. Rutgers for free with help from employer but job might get in the way.

[DportIA]

I do not think working during 1L is credited.

[BigZuck]

Why get a JD if you already have a decent paying job with upward mobility? What's your ultimate career goal?

[whiterussian]

DportIA, if I were to go to Rutgers, I'd be going part-time while keeping my full-time job, which would allow me to graduate debt-free.

Big Zuck, It's something that I've wanted to do for a while now, but I couldn't justify the price tag a few years ago. Now that applications have tanked and schools are giving out lots of money, it seems more reasonable. While I may get a boost in 2-3 years at my current job, there really is no upward mobility beyond that. Also, I really don't want to be doing what I'm doing now ten years down the line. I really would like to be an attorney, and I honestly wouldn't mind getting into a little debt for an attorney job with a comparable salary to what I'm making now when I graduate, but I hear some of the horror stories on here and on JDU that scare the living shit out of me.

[Winston1984]

Rutgers is the only option that makes sense here. No ties, debt, and chance of not having a job after graduation makes WVU a non-starter.

[SteelPenguin]

It sounds like you're more likely to take a pay cut/work for the same salary practicing law than you are to make more money coming out of law school, and you're grades might suffer because of working and the commute you described.

[mr.hands]

If you MUST go, Rutgers is the easy choice in my opinion. That's not to say that it's ideal, just that WVU sounds like an awful plan. 40k debt and no ties to the area doesn't make sense that legal market is tiny

[whiterussian]

If you MUST go, Rutgers is the easy choice in my opinion. That's not to say that it's ideal, just that WVU sounds like an awful plan. 40k debt and no ties to the area doesn't make sense that legal market is tiny

That's what I'm thinking too. It sucks that it'll be a grind day in and day out, but if I could make it work, I'll graduate debt-free and have several thousand in the bank. Plus, I'll likely make more money at my current job in three years than I would coming out of school, and my job is really low stress. Also, I'm not terribly comfortable not having an income, even though my debt would be manageable. I basically have nothing to lose by attempting to go to RU, I guess.

[donewithannarbor]

When will you read/study? I cannot imagine... PLUS you have a long commute which will inevitably make you late or absent on some days in the winter. Just consider how hard this lifestyle is. I excelled at Rutgers because I could immerse myself completely. Generally speaking, those who did (obviously, you take breaks and make room for important things, but law school should be job 1) did great. Those who were distracted fell to the bottom half, and the bottom half at non t14 law schools often struggle immediately afterwards. Be warned. And Rutgers isn't the most cutthroat school around, either. I found it quite pleasant, actually. But still, you need to focus. Learning the law is all about keeping it in your mind as much as possible, and preparation for each class and exam. Perhaps you are a faster learner than I. Can you reduce your hours at work, or move closer to Newark (we are talking about Rutgers-Newark, right?). This would help.

When you graduate, are you gunning for a JD-required or JD-helpful job at your company? Or would you leave your company for whatever is out there? If the latter, then honestly, at least in my book, if you want the best chance at a great new job in the legal profession and you want it to be an improvement (whether experiential or salary, hopefully both) from your current position, it might be worth it to reduce your work hours and/or quit and transition into the day program (it's easy to do), even if that means paying 20-40k straight up. A Rutgers J.D. with a solid transcript is most definitely worth 49k. Just do me a favor and query whether your transcript will be solid if you work til 5pm and make a 30 mile commute thereafter. Think about the endgame more than the short term money source.

WVU: definitely not.

Good luck, congrats on the scholarships, and let us know what you decide.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I mean, people do work full time and go to school part time, all the time. I'm sure it's not fun and in OP's case the commute is concerning. But going to school part time is definitely a thing and people succeed at doing it.

[whiterussian]

Donewithannarbor, outside of the commute getting in the way, the hours aren't bad. I really don't do more than 37.5-40 hours per week, and I never take work home with me, so while it would be a pain in the ass, I would have time to study in the mornings, after class, and on weekends. However, I do realize that it would be really difficult and that I'd be at a competitive disadvantage with having to work full-time and going to class, but I know that other people do it. Also, I would prefer to get an attorney job requiring bar passage once I graduate, but I'd be open to a JD advantage job in compliance with my government employer. Unfortunately, I wouldn't be able to reduce my hours because I'm in a union, and it's been collectively bargained that I can only get the tuition paid for by my employer if I remained full-time. Worst case scenario is that I try to make it work, and if I can't, I can always leave my job and either transition to full-time or find another job with fewer hours and keep going part-time.

[goldenboy514]

Keeping current job and going to a regional with ties for free doesn't seem like a bad deal at all. Is the tutition assistance upfront or is it a tuition reimbursement type deal?

[whiterussian]

Keeping current job and going to a regional with ties for free doesn't seem like a bad deal at all. Is the tutition assistance upfront or is it a tuition reimbursement type deal?

Tuition assistance is upfront and is not contingent on grades. I'd only have to pay taxes on it.

[haus]

Try test running the commute for a several days, maybe up to a week.

I am looking at a part-time program in DC with a partial scholarship and assistance from my employer, but it is unclear if I can physically make the trip at the time of day that it will be required. I will be test running my trip this week in hopes of getting a feel for the impact the commute will have on me. If it is too much, I will have to give strong consideration to other options.

Good luck with your choice.

[goldenboy514]

Keeping current job and going to a regional with ties for free doesn't seem like a bad deal at all. Is the tutition assistance upfront or is it a tuition reimbursement type deal?

Tuition assistance is upfront and is not contingent on grades. I'd only have to pay taxes on it.

Not really much to lose here then. If its overwhelming to do both, you can always drop out of Law school. Its free after all, right?

[NYSprague]

Donewithannarbor, outside of the commute getting in the way, the hours aren't bad. I really don't do more than 37.5-40 hours per week, and I never take work home with me, so while it would be a pain in the ass, I would have time to study in the mornings, after class, and on weekends. However, I do realize that it would be really difficult and that I'd be at a competitive disadvantage with having to work full-time and going to class, but I know that other people do it. Also, I would prefer to get an attorney job requiring bar passage once I graduate, but I'd be open to a JD advantage job in compliance with my government employer. Unfortunately, I wouldn't be able to reduce my hours because I'm in a union, and it's been collectively bargained that I can only get the tuition paid for by my employer if I remained full-time. Worst case scenario is that I try to make it work, and if I can't, I can always leave my job and either transition to full-time or find another job with fewer hours and keep going part-time.

Do you have any idea how many Rutgers law grads would love to have the job you have now? You should not give up that job.

[whiterussian]

Try test running the commute for a several days, maybe up to a week.

I am looking at a part-time program in DC with a partial scholarship and assistance from my employer, but it is unclear if I can physically make the trip at the time of day that it will be required. I will be test running my trip this week in hopes of getting a feel for the impact the commute will have on me. If it is too much, I will have to give strong consideration to other options.

Good luck with your choice.

I've done that about a dozen times, and I can usually make it with maybe 5 minutes to spare, but there were other days where I was 5-10 minutes late. I've spoken with a couple of the deans, and they said to give it a try and that it shouldn't be that big of an issue, but I'm afraid that the professors might think otherwise. I don't want to start only to be asked to withdraw for attendance issues. Good luck to you too, haus! I hope you can make it work.

[whiterussian]

Goldenboy, you're right. It's free and I don't have anything to lose. It is, however, something I really want to do, and I don't want to start and have to withdraw, as it might negatively affect me ever attending in the future.

NYSprague, I realize that I am lucky to have a job, and I know Rutgers grads are struggling to find employment. I actually met a 2012 Rutgers grad through a friend a few months ago, and she was telling me how tough it is out there. She was working a job she hated for less than I am currently making, and the hours were much worse, not to mention the debt she is in.

I think I'm finally going to pull the trigger and give RU a try. If it works, I'll be in a great situation, and if not, I have nothing to lose.

[StateSeal]

I think you've got this life thing figured out. Rutgers with your current employment situation and future goals makes lots of sense.

I was a part-time, non-law student this year. It wasn't fun, but it was definitely doable.

[donewithannarbor]

Okay, thanks for the info OP. I guess all that's left is for us to psych you up for you new long hours routine. And you're right, a substantial amount of evening students will work most of the day, so it's not a tremendous disadvantage that you work too. Still, play it by ear and make adjustments to your plan as needed. A great start is so critical. My RU alum friends run the gamut from excelling at firms and clerkships to mid law and government to unemployed folks who ended up doing doc review. Bottom line though is the top half are awfully safe, the bottom quarter/half scuffle. Journal and/or moot court is a huge ticket, short of that, you need great grades. Keep your act together and things could turn out very well. Good luck!