Washington v. Minnesota--Need to decide by tomorrow! Forum

[dazedandconfused18]

Hey Guys,

I'm down to my final two schools: the University of Minnesota and the University of Washington. I'm having a hell of a time deciding between the two. I've weighed the pros and cons, received input from family and friends, and I'm still 50/50 between the two schools. At this point, any advice (even from internet strangers) would be appreciated.

Both schools will cost about 100k when all is said and done. Tuition at Washington is about 3k cheaper per year, but Seattle has higher living expenses.

I'm from the Midwest and currently work as a paralegal in Wisconsin. I have a few friends in Minneapolis including two friends that just graduated from UM Law School. They will (hopefully) be excellent connections once I graduate, that is, if I go to Minnesota.

I do not know anyone in Seattle, but I've always loved the city and region. I know the PNW is a tough market, but this is probably my one and only chance to ever live and work there. My fiancee is finishing up graduate school and she will be joining me next year regardless of what school I pick. That should help "establish roots" and prove to future employers that I'm going to stay in the region for the long haul.

As far as area of practice goes, I'm fairly open. I currently work at a criminal defense law firm and enjoy that, but I would like to explore other areas as well. I would like to transition into some form of government work one day.

As you know, schools are similarly ranked, with a slight nod towards Minnesota. Both law schools are aiming to enroll 140 1Ls which is nice.

I think both cities are great. Minnesota is super cheap (compared to other medium-large cities), but cold as hell in the winter. Seattle has the mild, yet gray winters. Both cities have great outdoor recreational scenes. That's about all I got for now. What are your thoughts?

LSAT: 166, GPA: 3.7. I'm not eligible to retake until next year.

[HRomanus]

Both look like very regional schools. If you're from the Midwest, definitely stay there and root for the Chicago Bears.

[Jchance]

I'm from the Midwest and currently work as a paralegal in Wisconsin. I have a few friends in Minneapolis including two friends that just graduated from UM Law School. They will (hopefully) be excellent connections once I graduate, that is, if I go to Minnesota.

I do not know anyone in Seattle, but I've always loved the city and region. I know the PNW is a tough market, but this is probably my one and only chance to ever live and work there. My fiancee is finishing up graduate school and she will be joining me next year regardless of what school I pick. That should help "establish roots" and prove to future employers that I'm going to stay in the region for the long haul.

This concerns me. PNW is notoriously known for ties-conscious, going to school there is not enough to establish ties. Because you are from the Midwest, I'd pick MN over Washington here.

[Nova]

Stay in the midwest

[Ngoblue2014]

definitely minnesota. I came very close to going there too, it is a regional but it is a damn good regional. You live in Wisky so you can handle the cold, and there are far better/more markets where you have ties than way out in the NW

[McAvoy]

Wisconsin should have given you a scholarship at close to full tuition -- that's not an option? I don't think UMn is worth like 50+K more in your situation, as the markets are essentially interchangeable and the degrees are similarly respected in both states.

That said, Wisconsin does not have a very ties-sensitive legal market. If you have your heart set on UW-Seattle and you strike out on PNW work, I would think it'd only make it marginally harder to get a job in Wisco than if you went to UW-Madison. That's too much money to go to UWash for me, though.

[jbagelboy]

Minnesota. The markets you are targeting are some of the few where that degree will actually have value. It's a good school where it's known and appreciated.

[Ditka747]

Both look like very regional schools. If you're from the Midwest, definitely stay there and root for the Chicago Bears.

+1

[atwardow]

Minnesota. The markets you are targeting are some of the few where that degree will actually have value. It's a good school where it's known and appreciated.

+1

[eljefe1]

Neither.

This.

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and ... makers.htm

EDIT: Boilermakers often work at great heights.

[Pragmatic Gun]

Neither.

This.

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and ... makers.htm

EDIT: Boilermakers often work at great heights.

Dude, seriously, he's asking for advice and you're being totaly unhelpful.

OP, this what you were looking for: http://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and ... airers.htm

[John Everyman]

How little did you get from Minnesota to end up with 100k COA with reciprocity? 25k/yr? Hold out for more cash, MN is messing with you, you should be able to get better offers than that with those numbers.

Also, Summerfest lineup this year is freaking ridiculous, can't wait.

[Nammertat]

How little did you get from Minnesota to end up with 100k COA with reciprocity? 25k/yr? Hold out for more cash, MN is messing with you, you should be able to get better offers than that with those numbers.

Also, Summerfest lineup this year is freaking ridiculous, can't wait.

MN is notorious for not negotiating with [0L] terrorists.

[koval]

Minnesota for sure.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

So wait, both schools are regional peer schools at equal cost and TLS is basing its advice on "ties" again? Motherfuck.

OP, if you want a job, ties to the area you want a job will matter. However, going to UW is a tie because 99% of the students at UW want to work in the PNW, that's why they went to school there. Employers, because they are not fucking idiots, will know this. And, yes, having a SO start a career there is an additional tie.

People on here either attend non regional schools and have no idea what the fuck they are talking about or assume that "ties" is some magic box you check which allows you to get a job.

Employers will hire you if they like you and think you will stick around long enough so they can make money off you. That's it. That's as complicated as it gets. If you attend the University of Washington, employers are going to assume that you want to work in Washington. If you want to work in Washington, go to UW, not U of Minn.

Now cue the kiddos from UVA and NYU who couldn't get a SA interview at that one Seatle firm.

[BigZuck]

I love how Randy is always smarter than everyone here.

Anyway, going to a regional school that you don't have ties to is playing with fire, IMO. When its a region as parochial as the PNW I wouldn't chance it with basically zero ties, especially when you have a school that's the same cost in a market that you have ties to. If you're going to take on 100K debt to go to a regional school (and that's too much, IMO, but YOLO) I wouldn't chance it. Not in this market. Too risky, especially when you're tying someone else to that debt.

If it were cheaper and a less parochial market then maybe. Or if the school had better placement then maybe. But 100K to attend UW with no ties to Washington? I'm sorry Jose, but no way.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

I love how Randy is always smarter than everyone here.

I'm not sure any poster on this site who attends/attended a regional school has ever disagreed with me here. My view is the majority view, just not the TLS mega poster view. Graduated from CU this month and was able to get a job pre-graduation. Not from area. Ties was never brought up in any interview within the state of Colorado. But please if you have a different perspective on what it's like to attend a regional school sans ties, go for it. All I have ever heard are conclusory statements from posters who attend non regional schools.

I
But 100K to attend UW with no ties to Washington? I'm sorry Jose, but no way.

Fine. But 100k to attend U Minn cuz the OP is from Wisconsin is a no brainer? That's all I'm saying. Advice in this thread blows, mainly due to a misunderstanding about ties.

[BigZuck]

I love how Randy is always smarter than everyone here.

I'm not sure any poster on this site who attends/attended a regional school has ever disagreed with me here. My view is the majority view, just not the TLS mega poster view. Graduated from CU this month and was able to get a job pre-graduation. Not from area. Ties was never brought up in any interview within the state of Colorado. But please if you have a different perspective on what it's like to attend a regional school sans ties, go for it. All I have ever heard are conclusory statements from posters who attend non regional schools.

I
But 100K to attend UW with no ties to Washington? I'm sorry Jose, but no way.

Fine. But 100k to attend U Minn cuz the OP is from Wisconsin is a no brainer? That's all I'm saying. Advice in this thread blows, mainly due to a misunderstanding about ties.

I'm a lowly 1L (2L?) so my thoughts on ties are only based on what I experienced as a non-Texan during the 1L SA hunt. I'll try to refrain from saying anything too declarative until I have at least gone through OCI. You very well could be right on the money. I think that Ms. Mouse would probably agree with you too.

Once my thoughts on the subject are fully-baked will UT count as a regional school for your purposes? If so I will happily throw down my own anecdotes on the subject.

[rad lulz]

Both are too expensive and I wouldn't go to either

[NorCalLaw]

I agree that the "ties" refrain is overblown. If you get poor grades at either of those schools, "ties" will not save you, unless your "ties" are to a law firm partner. Ties are a relatively small plus factor and I doubt living somewhere in the Midwest is a huge tie anyway. Do I have ties to Washington if I live in Oregon? Not really, and I doubt any locals would recognize such ties as a serious factor.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

I love how Randy is always smarter than everyone here.

I'm not sure any poster on this site who attends/attended a regional school has ever disagreed with me here. My view is the majority view, just not the TLS mega poster view. Graduated from CU this month and was able to get a job pre-graduation. Not from area. Ties was never brought up in any interview within the state of Colorado. But please if you have a different perspective on what it's like to attend a regional school sans ties, go for it. All I have ever heard are conclusory statements from posters who attend non regional schools.

I
But 100K to attend UW with no ties to Washington? I'm sorry Jose, but no way.

Fine. But 100k to attend U Minn cuz the OP is from Wisconsin is a no brainer? That's all I'm saying. Advice in this thread blows, mainly due to a misunderstanding about ties.

I'm a lowly 1L (2L?) so my thoughts on ties are only based on what I experienced as a non-Texan during the 1L SA hunt. I'll try to refrain from saying anything too declarative until I have at least gone through OCI. You very well could be right on the money. I think that Ms. Mouse would probably agree with you too.

Once my thoughts on the subject are fully-baked will UT count as a regional school for your purposes? If so I will happily throw down my own anecdotes on the subject.

The test is: will employers think I attended this school in order to work in the area? At most schools, the answer is overwhelmingly yes. Why in fuck would someone attend the U of Idaho if they did not want to work in Idaho. It's an easy sell.

Now UT is kinda a tweener. You can def use it to build a "why texas" story, but you are still attending a school that many others attended due to "prestige" or hopes of getting big law anywhere. UT is a better tie to Texas than Duke is to North Carolina, but it's by no means full proof.

Schools that are considered toilets on TLS are often toilets, but they do create "ties" to the area the school is located in. The best schools do not create ties, though obviously offer many other advantages.