Chapman v. ? Forum

[acceptmepls!]

Hello,
So I'm stuck in this unfortunate dilemma. My stats are GPA 3.5 and LSAT 153 (first time) and 156 (second time).

So I decided to take a year off last year due to my horrible LSAT score. I've been working part time for the past two undergraduate years at a mid sized law firm and also took up a few other internships at other law offices to get a feel of different kinds of law practices. Since graduating I now have one year of full time legal assistant experience at an Orange County firm.

However, when I did retake the LSAT... perhaps due to anxiety (I've averaging in the 160s during prep tests).... I got a 156. Very marginal difference.

So far, my only acceptance is with Chapman with $37K. My application is still pending with Pepperdine. Waitlisted at Hastings and Emory. If accepted at either of these latter three, I would be very happy.

BUT! If not, what should I do?

Should I go to Chapman and hope that I can find a attorney job upon graduation due to connection with current boss? I don't think re-taking is an option as I've already taken one year off and didn't make such a big improvement during my last try.

Thank you in advance for helping me out!!

[SoapyIllusion]

Most people are going to say to either retake or reconsider your reasons for going to law school. Your GPA isn't that bad, and paired with a good LSAT you could probably get into some good law schools. When you decided to retake the LSAT, did you try anything different? Maybe the current method you are using to study isn't working.

To answer your question, though, I would personally give a retake one last shot. The employment score for Chapman law graduates are not too great, so I would personally stay away even if I received a full ride+living stipend. If you do manage to get into either of the other schools you listed and decide to attend (which some one still say to stay away from) you will have slightly better employment prospects, although not by much.

[thebobs1987]

You need to retake. Pepperdine and UC-Hastings are only justifiable if totally free, you'll be close to sticker. Emory is a fine school if you have a scholarship and want to work in the South. Since it looks like you would be interested in CA it makes no sense.

If you want to be in CA you need to be shooting for USC/UCLA with a scholarship or at least UCI with a big scholarship. If not, it just doesn't make sense to go to law school

[jbagelboy]

Pepperdine and Hastings are total shit traps. Don't go.
Is Chapman ABA approved? I would only attend for free living at home with a guaranteed job on graduation. Otherwise the experience will offer you nothing professionally.

Emory would only be a good choice if you wanted to work in Atlanta or another city in the deep south; maybe NY. It's no good for CA, which seems to be your target market.

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

Please don't go. Retake the LSAT

[Nova]

no offers with your current numbers are going to be worth it

[Louis1127]

Here are some really helpful links to get you started:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =6&t=41657

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 6&t=195603

[paayter]

You need to retake. Pepperdine and UC-Hastings are only justifiable if totally free, you'll be close to sticker. Emory is a fine school if you have a scholarship and want to work in the South. Since it looks like you would be interested in CA it makes no sense.

If you want to be in CA you need to be shooting for USC/UCLA with a scholarship or at least UCI with a big scholarship. If not, it just doesn't make sense to go to law school

man I'm beginning to wonder if uc irvine is even worth it...they only placed 64 percent with only 80 students? thats pretty bad...what happens when their numbers grow bigger. and of those 80 percent almost 20 percent were placed in fed clerkships which seems nice, but those are completely due to the connections of chemerinsky, its gonna get to a point where he can't keep placing THAT MANY students in fed clerkships. so i wanna say that out of those law jobs 15 percent is "school funded."

as for op, id give it a try one more time and try to get 160 plus, i got a full ride to chapman within 2 days of applying after getting a 160 plus score. do NOT do Hastings....a once reputable law school, definitely showed their true colors of how money hungry the school is by dropping standards to a huge level. 40 percent of students only got law jobs out of 300 plus students....scary stuff. Pepperdine as well...u might as well apply to loyola where they offering HUGE scholarships for people who have 160 plus numbers to up their rankings...they offer the same employment figs as pepperdine, and the proximity to the la market is better than pepperdine.

[acceptmepls!]

Thank you everyone for all the suggestions!!
Currently, I'm waitlisted at Hastings, Pepperdine and Emory. No idea whether I'm gonna come through at any of these schools.

I did speak with my current boss, and he said I can always come back to his firm for employment. Thus, I'm really hoping to get into one of the three.

If not, what do you guys think are my chances of transferring from Chapman to a top 50 law school?

[thebobs1987]

Thank you everyone for all the suggestions!!
Currently, I'm waitlisted at Hastings, Pepperdine and Emory. No idea whether I'm gonna come through at any of these schools.

I did speak with my current boss, and he said I can always come back to his firm for employment. Thus, I'm really hoping to get into one of the three.

If not, what do you guys think are my chances of transferring from Chapman to a top 50 law school?

Don't ever plan on transferring. It is all based on your final exams, which are unpredictable. Also, if you transfer you would be paying sticker. If you get into Pepperdine, Emory or Hastings off the WL you will most likely be paying sticker, which is way way too much money. Stay at your firm, take the LSAT one more time and go to law school on a scholarship. Otherwise, it is not worth it.

[03152016]

It's not clear to me that having the promise of a job offer makes any of this plan sound.

Shit happens. Who knows how the firm, or the job market generally, will be doing in 2017? Who knows if he'll be able to take on another associate? What if he decides to take an early retirement? What if he croaks?

A lot can happen in three years. Maybe this is being conservative, but I personally wouldn't base such a big decision on something so potentially volatile and dependent on one person.

[BigZuck]

Thank you everyone for all the suggestions!!
Currently, I'm waitlisted at Hastings, Pepperdine and Emory. No idea whether I'm gonna come through at any of these schools.

I did speak with my current boss, and he said I can always come back to his firm for employment. Thus, I'm really hoping to get into one of the three.

If not, what do you guys think are my chances of transferring from Chapman to a top 50 law school?

Unless the guaranteed job pays like 200K+ I wouldn't go to Hastings, Pepperdine, or Emory at sticker to get it.

[Ramius]

Thank you everyone for all the suggestions!!
Currently, I'm waitlisted at Hastings, Pepperdine and Emory. No idea whether I'm gonna come through at any of these schools.

I did speak with my current boss, and he said I can always come back to his firm for employment. Thus, I'm really hoping to get into one of the three.

If not, what do you guys think are my chances of transferring from Chapman to a top 50 law school?

What is the job your current boss is offering potentially? Would you be coming back to paralegal or whatever or would this be a true associate position? And if so, what kind of pay would you make? Would it be enough to service $200k+ debt?

These are all bad options, even with the guaranteed job. You'd be foolish not to figure out your anxiety issues and retake if you want a desirable law school outcome to become a reality.

[hiima3L]

Hastings c/o '12 grad here. Born and raised in CA, practice here, so I can speak to CA schools.

Do not under any circumstances go to Chapman. I wouldn't consider that school even if it were free. It has a horrible, horrible reputation in the state, and its grads simply do not do well. MAYBE 5% of each class have any chance of a good job. Everyone is else needs to get lucky/be connected to get ANY job. Any job. Not just a good job, any job.

I can't in good conscience recommend anyone go to UCH anymore. You won't get any decent $ from UCH, so I won't consider that possibility. Even if it were free, COL is so high in SF that you'd be lucky to graduate with $50k. The school has a very good reputation in the state that, sadly, is rapidly fading. The market is just plain brutal now, and the fact you're even considering anything but the top of the top schools makes it clear that you don't understand how terrible it is out there for new law school grads. UCH is placing less than 50% of its grads in ANY JOB at graduation. I know dozens and dozens and dozens of people from my class who (a) didn't find anything and quit trying at this point; (b) didn't find anything for over a year; (c) have shitty paying jobs; and/or (d) have $150k+ debt with no reasonable chance of paying it off any time soon.

The likelihood of landing a decently paying job at UCH is about 10-12%. Don't gamble $100k+ and 3 years of your life on those odds.

[Pragmatic Gun]

Retake. I'm taking another year off to have more work experience and to get a higher score on the LSAT. Aim higher to improve your employment outcomes.

Also, I'm pretty sure Chapman is still in jail for lying under oath, and she's definitely not a law school.

[Krysty]

Retake. I'm taking another year off to have more work experience and to get a higher score on the LSAT. Aim higher to improve your employment outcomes.

Also, I'm pretty sure Chapman is still in jail for lying under oath, and she's definitely not a law school.

Your comment literally made me lol.

[moneybagsphd]

It's not clear to me that having the promise of a job offer makes any of this plan sound.

Shit happens. Who knows how the firm, or the job market generally, will be doing in 2017? Who knows if he'll be able to take on another associate? What if he decides to take an early retirement? What if he croaks?

A lot can happen in three years. Maybe this is being conservative, but I personally wouldn't base such a big decision on something so potentially volatile and dependent on one person.

TITCR. I wouldn't base my decision to accrue vast amounts of non-dischargeable debt on a non-binding promise of future employment.

[Johann]

What is your salary /hr pay right now?

[acceptmepls!]

Thank you everyone for your inputs! Sorry I don't respond often as I want to give the most updated information each time I post.

Definitely understand everyone’s concern about my boss’s non-concrete promise for a job. We were talking about me returning as an associate and not back to being a legal assistant. He’s been in the business for many years but not planning to retire anytime soon. His practice is doing very well. But hey, things happen so I understand that I cannot rely on his word.

I have no idea what our current associates are paid, but I would like to assume it is a fair rate. My current pay is roughly 50K per year give or take. Our more senior legal assistant makes around 80K per year, but she has 10+ years of experience.

Update on law school status: I was recently accepted to UC Hastings with a 13K per year financial aid. I noticed that most people who were accepted to UCH got around 13K. Some others got theirs raised to 18K. The highest I’ve seen so far is 28K per year. Thus, I don’t think UCH is giving out much $ in general.

I have until tomorrow to decide on UCH. Still no word from Pepperdine and Emory. Do you guys think I should go to UCH?

[McAvoy]

Do you guys think I should go to UCH?

Fuck. No.

Going there with a full ride is seriously questionable.

[rad lulz]

.

[moonman157]

No. Don't go. You will spend six figures in student debt, plus $150K in opportunity costs, to have the possibility of earning $80K with 10+ years of experience. It's not worth it.

[HOS]

No. Don't go to UCH. Study hard and retake. I am one of many to have taken this advice. You can only do law school once. Don't blow it!

Also, are there stipulations on your scholarship? How confident are you that you'll even be able to keep it for the full three years?

[ManoftheHour]

Nvm.

[acceptmepls!]

Thanks for all the advise so far! I think my main concern is still with whether or not I can do better on my LSAT and whether or not I can get into a better school or receive a bigger scholarship. I studied like crazy for my last exam and even took several months off work to study. So I'm not confident in how much better I can do if I retake.

Just to clarify, the 80K per year salary is for a legal assistant with 10 years of experience. I'm a legal assistant right now. I have no idea whether or not a starting out associate will be earning more or less than that.