UIUC 40k vs. WUSTL Forum

[seanyeezy]

I tried to ignore US News rankings but does it really reflect the real quality UIUC Law? I know that it was punished for cheating on the data submitted to ABA several years ago and dragged down from 23 or so. I just need a balance between this offer and WUSTL. Plus I have got 40k scholarship each year. Need a choice with reasons. THX

[DoveBodyWash]

UIUC gave you 120k and WUSTL gave you nothing????

Where do you want to practice?

[illegallad]

Current Illinois 1L here. To answer your first question I believe that Illinois is underranked and should return back to its original rank prior to the ranking scandal. As far as whether you should go to Illinois or WUSTL it depends on where you want to practice and what you want to practice. If you want to practice in Chicago, most likely Illinois. If you want to practice in St. Louis, most likely WUSTL. In terms of placement power the two schools are about the same (although I do believe WUSTL has slightly better big law numbers.) What are your goals, and what scholarship did you get from WUSTL?

[DoveBodyWash]

Current Illinois 1L here. To answer your first question I believe that Illinois is underranked and should return back to its original rank prior to the ranking scandal. As far as whether you should go to Illinois or WUSTL it depends on where you want to practice and what you want to practice. If you want to practice in Chicago, most likely Illinois. If you want to practice in St. Louis, most likely WUSTL. In terms of placement power the two schools are about the same (although I do believe WUSTL has slightly better big law numbers.) What are your goals, and what scholarship did you get from WUSTL?

dude we 2L's now! ..right?

i'm a WUSTL 1L (2L? WHAT AM I!?), and personally i don't think WUSTL offers anything that's worth 120k more than UIUC, even if OP wants to practice somewhere other than Chicago. I guess maybe if OP was St. Louis or bust..but at that point, SLU with $$$$ should be on the table too.

OP are these two schools your only two options?

[illegallad]

Haha two more finals and I can say I'm a 2L!!

I would of course recommend that someone take 120K at Illinois over sticker at WUSTL but I can't believe that WUSTL wouldn't give any sort of scholly.

[DoveBodyWash]

Haha two more finals and I can say I'm a 2L!!

I would of course recommend that someone take 120K at Illinois over sticker at WUSTL but I can't believe that WUSTL wouldn't give any sort of scholly.

yeah that's weird to me too..

OP to answer your original question, don't let the rankings sway you, especially with UIUC. Look at the LST job numbers and consider your own goals and how much debt you're comfortable borrowing. UIUC has always been, and will continue to be, a good feeder into the Chicago market. Law firms aren't going to stop recruiting from UIUC because one dean screwed up.

You'll need to do well at either school to get BigLaw (if that's your goal). Having less debt means you won't be totally screwed if you don't do as well as you need to, or decide you dont' want Biglaw at all. It'll also sweeten the deal even if you do get Biglaw since you'll pocket more of your earnings.

If i was in your position i would take UIUC with the 120k or re-apply next cycle if UIUC wasn't satisfactory for my goals

[Yanky91]

The real difference between UIUC and WUSTL is mobility. With a J.D. from WUSTL you have a lot more mobility than UIUC. As you can see based off the ABA data, most grads out of WUSTL leave Missouri. They go all over the country. For UIUC it is the exact opposite. Most grads out of UIUC stay in Illinois. This has nothing to do with the U.S. news ranking. If you look, historically most of the graduating class of Illinois has stayed in Illinois (even when it was ranked 23).

[seanyeezy]

Haha two more finals and I can say I'm a 2L!!

I would of course recommend that someone take 120K at Illinois over sticker at WUSTL but I can't believe that WUSTL wouldn't give any sort of scholly.

yeah that's weird to me too..

OP to answer your original question, don't let the rankings sway you, especially with UIUC. Look at the LST job numbers and consider your own goals and how much debt you're comfortable borrowing. UIUC has always been, and will continue to be, a good feeder into the Chicago market. Law firms aren't going to stop recruiting from UIUC because one dean screwed up.

You'll need to do well at either school to get BigLaw (if that's your goal). Having less debt means you won't be totally screwed if you don't do as well as you need to, or decide you dont' want Biglaw at all. It'll also sweeten the deal even if you do get Biglaw since you'll pocket more of your earnings.

If i was in your position i would take UIUC with the 120k or re-apply next cycle if UIUC wasn't satisfactory for my goals

Thx a lot for your advice and practical info!!! But I probably didn't make myself clear... UIUC gave me 40k. And actually WUSTL waits me and I'm writing LOCI trying to take a shot at it. I posted in this way just to simplify the situation. Sorry for confusion...

[seanyeezy]

Current Illinois 1L here. To answer your first question I believe that Illinois is underranked and should return back to its original rank prior to the ranking scandal. As far as whether you should go to Illinois or WUSTL it depends on where you want to practice and what you want to practice. If you want to practice in Chicago, most likely Illinois. If you want to practice in St. Louis, most likely WUSTL. In terms of placement power the two schools are about the same (although I do believe WUSTL has slightly better big law numbers.) What are your goals, and what scholarship did you get from WUSTL?

A lotta thx!!! I would like to practice in Chicago and long for Big Law. But another option is that I may also get back to China after three years. In case of that would it be any more different between these two schools?

[seanyeezy]

The real difference between UIUC and WUSTL is mobility. With a J.D. from WUSTL you have a lot more mobility than UIUC. As you can see based off the ABA data, most grads out of WUSTL leave Missouri. They go all over the country. For UIUC it is the exact opposite. Most grads out of UIUC stay in Illinois. This has nothing to do with the U.S. news ranking. If you look, historically most of the graduating class of Illinois has stayed in Illinois (even when it was ranked 23).

Thx! So what contributes to such difference of mobility? Is it primarily because of their locations?

[isuperserial]

Haha two more finals and I can say I'm a 2L!!

I would of course recommend that someone take 120K at Illinois over sticker at WUSTL but I can't believe that WUSTL wouldn't give any sort of scholly.

yeah that's weird to me too..

OP to answer your original question, don't let the rankings sway you, especially with UIUC. Look at the LST job numbers and consider your own goals and how much debt you're comfortable borrowing. UIUC has always been, and will continue to be, a good feeder into the Chicago market. Law firms aren't going to stop recruiting from UIUC because one dean screwed up.

You'll need to do well at either school to get BigLaw (if that's your goal). Having less debt means you won't be totally screwed if you don't do as well as you need to, or decide you dont' want Biglaw at all. It'll also sweeten the deal even if you do get Biglaw since you'll pocket more of your earnings.

If i was in your position i would take UIUC with the 120k or re-apply next cycle if UIUC wasn't satisfactory for my goals

Thx a lot for your advice and practical info!!! But I probably didn't make myself clear... UIUC gave me 40k. And actually WUSTL waits me and I'm writing LOCI trying to take a shot at it. I posted in this way just to simplify the situation. Sorry for confusion...

Okay, so just to be clear, you are being offered 40k total over the three years at UIUC, not 40k per year?

Also, side note, be more clear next time. Things like the fact that you are waitlisted at WUSTL are things you should tell us.

[seanyeezy]

Haha two more finals and I can say I'm a 2L!!

I would of course recommend that someone take 120K at Illinois over sticker at WUSTL but I can't believe that WUSTL wouldn't give any sort of scholly.

yeah that's weird to me too..

OP to answer your original question, don't let the rankings sway you, especially with UIUC. Look at the LST job numbers and consider your own goals and how much debt you're comfortable borrowing. UIUC has always been, and will continue to be, a good feeder into the Chicago market. Law firms aren't going to stop recruiting from UIUC because one dean screwed up.

You'll need to do well at either school to get BigLaw (if that's your goal). Having less debt means you won't be totally screwed if you don't do as well as you need to, or decide you dont' want Biglaw at all. It'll also sweeten the deal even if you do get Biglaw since you'll pocket more of your earnings.

If i was in your position i would take UIUC with the 120k or re-apply next cycle if UIUC wasn't satisfactory for my goals

Thx a lot for your advice and practical info!!! But I probably didn't make myself clear... UIUC gave me 40k. And actually WUSTL waits me and I'm writing LOCI trying to take a shot at it. I posted in this way just to simplify the situation. Sorry for confusion...

Okay, so just to be clear, you are being offered 40k total over the three years at UIUC, not 40k per year?

Also, side note, be more clear next time. Things like the fact that you are waitlisted at WUSTL are things you should tell us.

Apologize for that. From your post I think I have made myself clear enough and I'm just not quite used to the wording and info to tell in the forum - yeah, 40k per year n that's 120k total. Shame on me I didn't connect these two digits So would it be even more weird that WUSTL waitlisted me while UIUC offered me 120k for 3 years?

[illegallad]

Current Illinois 1L here. To answer your first question I believe that Illinois is underranked and should return back to its original rank prior to the ranking scandal. As far as whether you should go to Illinois or WUSTL it depends on where you want to practice and what you want to practice. If you want to practice in Chicago, most likely Illinois. If you want to practice in St. Louis, most likely WUSTL. In terms of placement power the two schools are about the same (although I do believe WUSTL has slightly better big law numbers.) What are your goals, and what scholarship did you get from WUSTL?

A lotta thx!!! I would like to practice in Chicago and long for Big Law. But another option is that I may also get back to China after three years. In case of that would it be any more different between these two schools?

Although Illinois is good for Chicago Biglaw it most certainly is not a guarantee. I believe around a quarter of our class gets it. If you are dead set on Chicago Biglaw the best advice I would give is retake the LSAT and try to shoot for Northwestern, Chicago, or Michigan.

[DoveBodyWash]

The real difference between UIUC and WUSTL is mobility. With a J.D. from WUSTL you have a lot more mobility than UIUC. As you can see based off the ABA data, most grads out of WUSTL leave Missouri. They go all over the country. For UIUC it is the exact opposite. Most grads out of UIUC stay in Illinois. This has nothing to do with the U.S. news ranking. If you look, historically most of the graduating class of Illinois has stayed in Illinois (even when it was ranked 23).

Thx! So what contributes to such difference of mobility? Is it primarily because of their locations?

Our mobility is partly driven by our CSO, who makes an effort to expose us to various markets. But it's also driven partly by students just returning home. Our student body is geographically more diverse, so as students return home to practice they grow our local alumni base in that market. So it's not necessarily that having a WUSTL J.D. is going to suddenly open a ton of markets or anything. I imagine that most of UIUC's students attend the school with the intention of staying in Illinois (either they're originally from there or they think going will make them competitive for Chicago).

[seanyeezy]

Current Illinois 1L here. To answer your first question I believe that Illinois is underranked and should return back to its original rank prior to the ranking scandal. As far as whether you should go to Illinois or WUSTL it depends on where you want to practice and what you want to practice. If you want to practice in Chicago, most likely Illinois. If you want to practice in St. Louis, most likely WUSTL. In terms of placement power the two schools are about the same (although I do believe WUSTL has slightly better big law numbers.) What are your goals, and what scholarship did you get from WUSTL?

A lotta thx!!! I would like to practice in Chicago and long for Big Law. But another option is that I may also get back to China after three years. In case of that would it be any more different between these two schools?

Although Illinois is good for Chicago Biglaw it most certainly is not a guarantee. I believe around a quarter of our class gets it. If you are dead set on Chicago Biglaw the best advice I would give is retake the LSAT and try to shoot for Northwestern, Chicago, or Michigan.

Thx for your suggestion, but I dont wanna gap. How about transfer to these schools you mentioned after a year in UIUC? Are there people who make it? If so, how about the prospect or percentage?

[seanyeezy]

The real difference between UIUC and WUSTL is mobility. With a J.D. from WUSTL you have a lot more mobility than UIUC. As you can see based off the ABA data, most grads out of WUSTL leave Missouri. They go all over the country. For UIUC it is the exact opposite. Most grads out of UIUC stay in Illinois. This has nothing to do with the U.S. news ranking. If you look, historically most of the graduating class of Illinois has stayed in Illinois (even when it was ranked 23).

Thx! So what contributes to such difference of mobility? Is it primarily because of their locations?

Our mobility is partly driven by our CSO, who makes an effort to expose us to various markets. But it's also driven partly by students just returning home. Our student body is geographically more diverse, so as students return home to practice they grow our local alumni base in that market. So it's not necessarily that having a WUSTL J.D. is going to suddenly open a ton of markets or anything. I imagine that most of UIUC's students attend the school with the intention of staying in Illinois (either they're originally from there or they think going will make them competitive for Chicago).

That makes sense. THX!

[isuperserial]

yeah that's weird to me too..

OP to answer your original question, don't let the rankings sway you, especially with UIUC. Look at the LST job numbers and consider your own goals and how much debt you're comfortable borrowing. UIUC has always been, and will continue to be, a good feeder into the Chicago market. Law firms aren't going to stop recruiting from UIUC because one dean screwed up.

You'll need to do well at either school to get BigLaw (if that's your goal). Having less debt means you won't be totally screwed if you don't do as well as you need to, or decide you dont' want Biglaw at all. It'll also sweeten the deal even if you do get Biglaw since you'll pocket more of your earnings.

If i was in your position i would take UIUC with the 120k or re-apply next cycle if UIUC wasn't satisfactory for my goals

Thx a lot for your advice and practical info!!! But I probably didn't make myself clear... UIUC gave me 40k. And actually WUSTL waits me and I'm writing LOCI trying to take a shot at it. I posted in this way just to simplify the situation. Sorry for confusion...

Okay, so just to be clear, you are being offered 40k total over the three years at UIUC, not 40k per year?

Also, side note, be more clear next time. Things like the fact that you are waitlisted at WUSTL are things you should tell us.

Apologize for that. From your post I think I have made myself clear enough and I'm just not quite used to the wording and info to tell in the forum - yeah, 40k per year n that's 120k total. Shame on me I didn't connect these two digits So would it be even more weird that WUSTL waitlisted me while UIUC offered me 120k for 3 years?

Not super weird. I got the same scholarship at UIUC of 120k, and WUSTL, though they let me in, offered no money at all. I took UIUC since that combined with other contributions would essentially make law school free for me, and I want to work in Chicago.

I think that even if you had to take the rest out as debt, UIUC with that scholarship is highly defensible. But it's all about where you want to work. I do not think that WUSTL is worth the sticker price, especially with such an offer on the table.

Finally, regarding your post about transferring - Transferring would potentially make sense if you wanted to transfer to a T14 like NYU or Chicago because it opens up doors to opportunities you wouldn't have otherwise. Transferring to WUSTL would make much less sense because it's basically a peer school and you'd be giving up your huge scholarship for no scholarship at all.

That being said, if you happen to be a Vanderbilt and money is no object to you, then WUSTL might be the choice after all.

[illegallad]

Taking a gap year is not a bad idea, I went straight through from undergrad and now I really kind of wish I did. If you want to transfer the only places that would really be a better bet for Chicago Big law are NU and Chicago (alongside the rest of the T14) I know for a fact that a kid transferred out to UVA and he had grades in the top 15% and another kid who transferred out to Chicago who was number 2 in the whole class. The point is if you want to transfer to a T14 school you would need grades in the top 10-15% to make it happen. Obviously there is an 85-90% chance that isn't going to happen so I wouldn't go to UIUC, or any school for that matter, intending to transfer.

[thebobs1987]

Another UIUC 1L/2L here. If you want to be in Chicago then UIUC is a good choice. But in terms of transferring, it really doesn't make sense because as mentioned you really would only want to transfer to a t14, but if you can transfer it means you are probably in the top 10% and will get big law anyways. As was mentioned about 25-30% get big law at UIUC. So if you are dead set on big law, best thing to do is sit out a year and retake to get into NU/UC right away. What is your LSAT/GPA?