Emory, Vandy, or Retake? Forum

[HRomanus]

This is less about this year's cycle, and more about next year's. I have a solid offer from Emory and a pending application at Vanderbilt. For the purposes of argument, I'll assume that I will be admitted to Vanderbilt this year with no scholarships. For full info on my cycle, visit my LSN at lawschoolnumbers.com/hromanus

-The schools you are considering: Emory and Vanderbilt
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each: Emory ($110k) and Vandy ($216k)
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings: I have at least $120k in family support. My grandparents promised to pay for my law school, but I have only presented (and received support for) my deficit with Emory. I am confident they will cover the full cost, but so far I haven't secured an explicit dollar commitment beyond the $120k I needed for Emory. As far as questions of "wasting my inheritance" - I would rather grab the cash ASAP in an educational grant rather than gamble the will cuts me in for that amount or greater.
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties: I am from South Carolina and want to practice in the South. That being said, I am willing to follow the money/employment.
-Your general career goals: BigLaw with transition to in-house or smaller firm. If not BigLaw, a 26-100 firm in a larger city like Greenville or Charleston.
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers. 165 (1 take) and 4.0

Here's my situation: I will come out of Emory with zero debt and am comfortable with its employment outcomes. It gives me an opportunity at BigLaw, but also the ability to come into a good firm in my native Greenville, SC if I miss. That being said, I have the ability to wait and retake. I am currently one year out of undergrad in a secure employment (albait, that I don't love). I mangled this cycle, including underperforming on the LSAT ( I took a practice tonight, 8 months since studying, and got a 167).

I know the numbers. I know that a 168, 170, or 172 gives me great opportunities at Vandy and Duke. I know the Duke and Vandy employment and salary numbers dwarf Emory's.

1) If accepted at Vanderbilt this cycle at sticker, should I go to Emory or Vanderbilt?
2) Should I wait and retake? If so, how will Emory view me next cycle, how will Vandy and Duke treat my lower score, and what are the repercussions if I score lower than 165 on a retake?

[goldenflash19]

Absolutely, absolutely retake. I retook similar numbers, and the retaking had zero effect on my cycle. You said you underperformed, and with that GPA, your options are limitless. HYS, Duke, or UVA would set you up perfectly for the South and give you substantially better options than the ones you'd have now.

[cricketlove00]

Please god retake with that 4.0

[metroidbum]

Law schools don't care about retaking or scoring lower because they only report an applicant's highest score to USNWR.

The only schools that would care even a little would be Yale, Stanford, and Berkeley.

Retake.

[HRomanus]

Thanks guys!

What are the repercussions if I score lower than 165 on the retake?

[NoLieAbility]

At the schools you're considering, there won't be any repercussions (where admissions are concerned) at all.

[cron1834]

That's far too much debt to justify from those schools, even without considering the 4.0. Considering you do have the 4.0, you should retake until you get affordable T14s or Vandy for full/near-full.

[HRomanus]

That's far too much debt to justify from those schools, even without considering the 4.0. Considering you do have the 4.0, you should retake until you get affordable T14s or Vandy for full/near-full.

I wouldn't have any debt from Emory. That's the crux of my question -> if I have no debt from Emory, is it worth it to attend considering oppportunities from waiting a year? Waiting and retaking does carry risk, particularly that I will score higher on the LSAT.

[BigZuck]

That's far too much debt to justify from those schools, even without considering the 4.0. Considering you do have the 4.0, you should retake until you get affordable T14s or Vandy for full/near-full.

I wouldn't have any debt from Emory.

You would be wasting an inheritance though

Gotta retake

[HRomanus]

You would be wasting an inheritance though

Gotta retake

Like I said, I'd rather get the money now via educational grants. My grandfather is wealthy, but he has been getting looser with his money and he currently has a $500,000 bequest to his alma mater. I don't think the inheritance that reaches me will be comparative to the $120-220k I can secure for my education.

[BigZuck]

You would be wasting an inheritance though

Gotta retake

Like I said, I'd rather get the money now via educational grants. My grandfather is wealthy, but he has been getting looser with his money and he currently has a $500,000 bequest to his alma mater. I don't think the inheritance that reaches me will be comparative to the $120-220k I can secure for my education.

If you want to waste 120K on something, waste it on something better than freaking Emory law school.

Also, you said you want big law. Gotta retake for that.

[cron1834]

I read carelessly and ignored the family support.

Still, you're wasting your GPA when you could get MUCH better options, regardless. You can double or triple your biglaw chances!

[HRomanus]

As if to further reinforce that I should take another year, my employer is doubling my responsibilities after a fellow field executive resigned. I know the data supports the decision to wait and retake, and now the opportunities at current work support the decision.

Thanks for your viewpoint guys!

[Ngoblue2014]

Taking advice from the board, I have eliminated Emory. They're right, numbers are awful and the ranking is not only too high, but primed for a major fall (see the ATL rankings where Emory is no longer top 35.) I am retaking in June, but second depositing at BU/GW. With your GPA i would sign up (can still do late registration for June test) that way you can second deposit to Vandy, and by the time you get your new score (should be first week of July) you still have plenty of time to decide if the new score is worth reapplying with, or if Vanderbilt/Emory is your better option. For me, my number is 168. If i hit that I am reapplying, worst case il get into the same schools with better $ (plus i will apply in October as opposed to February as I did this time around.) Just my two cents

[HRomanus]

Taking advice from the board, I have eliminated Emory. They're right, numbers are awful and the ranking is not only too high, but primed for a major fall (see the ATL rankings where Emory is no longer top 35.) I am retaking in June, but second depositing at BU/GW. With your GPA i would sign up (can still do late registration for June test) that way you can second deposit to Vandy, and by the time you get your new score (should be first week of July) you still have plenty of time to decide if the new score is worth reapplying with, or if Vanderbilt/Emory is your better option. For me, my number is 168. If i hit that I am reapplying, worst case il get into the same schools with better $ (plus i will apply in October as opposed to February as I did this time around.) Just my two cents

Thanks for the response! It's been fun to see our cycles often overlap. Good luck on the June LSAT!

Here's my perspective: Law school employment data doesn't exist in a vacuum, but nor should a school's data (such as Emory) live suffocatingly close with T14 schools. Even including school-funded pisitions, Emory's employment data is not awful. The numbers reveal what it is - a strong regional school that offers a limited opportunity at BigLaw. I am comfortable attending Emory because I understand and am comfortable with its outcomes.

As an aside: It definitely isn't primed for a major USNWR fall, considering it (unlike ATL) doesn't exclude school-funded positions. ATL rankings mean less than US News, since at least US News rankings are a ubiquitious standard. Just use LSTs comparrison tool and you'll learn far more than ATL rankings reveal.

That being said, I am strongly influenced to wait another year and retake the LSAT in October. The June test date - just 28 days away - is just way too close to do sufficient study to get the boost I need. I feel comfortable that I can increase my score from 165 to 168-172 by the September 27 test day (138 days away).

[HRomanus]

Ended up being waitlisted at Vandy. Looking at LSN, I likely have one of the stronger WL applications, but I am concerned that the scholarships are very low for WL-A. Should I remain on the WL and submit a LOCI even if I am comfortable retaking/reapplying? Are there any potential negative repercussions to next cycle's application if I reject a WL admission with a lowball scholarship offer?