UT or Reapply Forum

[C.R.E.A.M.]

-the schools you are considering
-UT

-I received a 93K scholarship and my parents will cover much of my COL so I will be looking at 75-80K in debt.

-I'm from Louisiana but a lot of my extended family lives in Texas. These are the only areas I have ties.

-I'd like to go into litigation and start out in biglaw, eventually transitioning to smaller firms or maybe something like state attorney general office. Oil and gas, energy, and environmental law are areas that most interest my puny 0L mind. From what I've read, TLS seems to say federal clerkship is good for litigation people so I suppose that is a not insignificant consideration.

-169/3.72

-taken the LSAT three times.

So basically I'm getting serious cold feet as I search for living arrangements in Austin. I also applied to Columbia, NYU, Penn, Duke, and Michigan but got WL'd by all. I sent my applications late, around 1/30 except for Michigan which was sent mid-February. I wrote 0 optional essays. I'm also K-JD which, combined with not being from Texas, frightens me come OCI time, and makes me think I should hedge my bet with a higher ranked school. But maybe that fear is off-based. Do you guys think this is my best option and I should take it or would applying early next cycle be to my benefit?

Another side effect of waiting a cycle is that I would have the opportunity to retake a fourth time. (question: I took in Feb Oct and Dec '13 so can I take in Feb '15 or Jun '15?)

[logicspeaks]

This is not the best offer you can get. Reapply early and definitely write the optional essays. Get the most substantive job you can in the interim.

[shifty_eyed]

I think Texas aligns really well with your goals and being from Louisiana with family in Texas makes you basically a local. You can probably do better for your numbers, but I wouldn't spend significantly more for any non-HYS t14 over UT if I were you personally.

[BigZuck]

Certainly not a bad debt load out of UT but I had virtually the same numbers and got 90K at Duke and Cornell and those would be much better choices for big law. I'm not seeing anywhere that you want TX big law, just big law. Are you saying you're TX big law or bust or would you be fine with NY big law?

Also, might there be an issue with your application aside from applying late? I'd be a bit leery of not a Texan+K-JD as well. I think those factors plus median grades would make it an uphill battle at UT.

I think you can retake Feb '15

If pulling the trigger on law school doesn't feel right to you right now I think you should go with your gut and reapply (and perhaps re-work your apps a bit, at least writing optional essays). One year doesn't really mean anything in the grand scheme of things, especially if you're like 22.

[McAvoy]

Would you get better offers if you waited a year, and would you do better at OCI? You would definitely think. At the same time, you could be in many worse situations than UT at that debt load.

If you want to play it safe, take the time off; if you're ready to make the jump, you're not in a bad place at all.

[C.R.E.A.M.]

Thanks for pitching in guys.

I wouldn't say I'm necessarily TX biglaw or bust, but I would ideally like to make my career in the south. I am a bit worried about Louisiana being my home market since it doesn't exactly have a booming legal sector. So I figured establishing some Texas roots would be a good idea. I also assumed UT would be in a good position to put me in my ideal practice areas but this may be unwarranted.

I'm not looking to make biglaw a career, but my understanding is that it opens up better options for smaller firms or the more difficult to get government positions. NYC biglaw is fine to the extent that it affords me these options in the south. I'm realistic about my chances of biglaw at UT, but it's still my initial goal which is why I'm getting hesitant about attending.

Does anyone know how much being a K-JD drags you down around OCI? Is it just a tie breaker or something more substantive?

[Kool-Aid]

Just reapply early next cycle! Worst case scenario would put you in the same position next year, and you may have some work experience by that time.

That isn't a bad price for UT though.

[McAvoy]

Does anyone know how much being a K-JD drags you down around OCI? Is it just a tie breaker or something more substantive?

I obviously haven't been through OCI, but my two cents: there aren't that many jobs a normal person gets out of college where the substance is going to be really helpful to their career as an attorney -- so if you have that (finance, M&A, tax, what have you), that's probably going to be a big boost.

So I would think the boost from having generic post-grad work experience is likely that you (a) actually have stuff to talk about in an interview, (b) have legitimate experience interviewing, and (c) know how to behave in a professional setting, at least insofar as you made it through your last job. When you're gunning for jobs that pay almost 200K, it might be fair to also think being older helps by itself, as well.

It's probably not that KJDs aren't wanted, they just don't have the same functional "job-getting" experience non-KJDs have.

[Dafaq]

OCI at UT is abundant. Plenty of BL recruiters in attendance along with a sizeable number of large Texas firms. If your grades are median +, odds are in your favor for a +120 job. Texas's reasonable COL should also be factored in.

[C.R.E.A.M.]

OCI at UT is abundant. Plenty of BL recruiters in attendance along with a sizeable number of large Texas firms. If your grades are median +, odds are in your favor for a +120 job. Texas's reasonable COL should also be factored in.

Does anyone know how much being a K-JD drags you down around OCI? Is it just a tie breaker or something more substantive?

I obviously haven't been through OCI, but my two cents: there aren't that many jobs a normal person gets out of college where the substance is going to be really helpful to their career as an attorney -- so if you have that (finance, M&A, tax, what have you), that's probably going to be a big boost.

So I would think the boost from having generic post-grad work experience is likely that you (a) actually have stuff to talk about in an interview, (b) have legitimate experience interviewing, and (c) know how to behave in a professional setting, at least insofar as you made it through your last job. When you're gunning for jobs that pay almost 200K, it might be fair to also think being older helps by itself, as well.

It's probably not that KJDs aren't wanted, they just don't have the same functional "job-getting" experience non-KJDs have.

This was helpful, thanks guys

[cron1834]

OCI at UT is abundant. Plenty of BL recruiters in attendance along with a sizeable number of large Texas firms. If your grades are median +, odds are in your favor for a +120 job. Texas's reasonable COL should also be factored in.

Texas bros can speak to this best, obvs, but UT's biglaw+fedclerk score was 42% for 2013 and 35% for 2012. Not exactly overwhelming. Plus, my guess would be that being OOS hurts you relative to those baseline chances.

With a 169 OP should be able to get better, namely Duke.

[Dafaq]

With a 169 OP should be able to get better, namely Duke.

I passed up Duke, glad I did. Didn’t see the need for a six figure debt.

[cron1834]

With a 169 OP should be able to get better, namely Duke.

I passed up Duke, glad I did. Didn’t see the need for a six figure debt.

Bro, this isn't about you. OP wants biglaw and doesn't have strong Texas ties, but wants the South. He's also at Duke's median LSAT.

[McAvoy]

It's not like OP is an "outsider" in TX though, as he's from Louisiana. It's not his fault his home state doesn't have much of a legal market to speak of. Texas firms aren't going to see him as a flight risk like they see carpetbaggers as one, as he's a few hour drive from home.

This is pretty baseless speculation, but I don't see a Duke degree having a 70-80K advantage over UT in portability back to Louisiana, either.

ETA: Not saying Duke wouldn't be a better choice for OP by any means. If he's concerned less about debt load than he is about biglaw, then Duke is probably a better option.

[BigZuck]

Of course it's not 100% guaranteed or anything but if the OP got 90K at Duke like those numbers have got in the past and his parents are paying COL he'll be roughly 100K in the hole vs 75K in the hole at UT.

Absent special circumstances, objectively speaking Duke is absolutely worth 25K more than UT.

I think if the OP really, really wanted TX big law above all else then maaaaaaybe I say take UT at 75K over Duke at 100K just solely due to his non-Texanness but if his goal is just "the south" then Duke for 25K more is a no brainer.

Of course thats not the situation we are dealing with right now- the OP got wait listed at Duke. And I'm really wondering what that is all about because that shouldn't have happened, IMO.

[C.R.E.A.M.]

Of course thats not the situation we are dealing with right now- the OP got wait listed at Duke. And I'm really wondering what that is all about because that shouldn't have happened, IMO.

Probably a mix of things I imagine. I applied late. I didn't write a Why Duke. Maybe my LORs were bad? I don't know; I didn't see them but I doubt that was the problem. I don't have softs, like none. I ate and pooped during college. Worked part time as a clerk at a law office during undergrad but no actual, serious WE. I guess K-JD and no softs is a bad combo.