BC Law vs. Hastings vs. Maryland [waitlisted GW and BU] Forum

[RGR1417]

I'm looking to work in IP at a big law firm, but I am also interested in clerkships. I currently have deposits down at BC, Hastings and Maryland and I am waiting to hear back from the GW and BU wait lists. If I had my choice I'd likely attend GW, though BC's employment prospects are very close when you remove GW's school funded jobs. Right now, I'm debating more so between BC and Hastings and leaning towards BC. Any advice other than those than the US News ranking slaves?


Here's my take:

Boston College Law
Scholarship: $18,000 per year

COA: $66,536

Current Rank: 36
Last Years Rank: 31

Pros:
-Solid reputation in MA and NY
-Potential national name recognition
-Good job placement
-Good placement in big law
-Ok placement in Federal clerkships
-Terrific teachers and administration

Cons:
-Cold weather
-Not much focus on IP
-Would need a car


Maryland Law
Scholarship: $12,500 per year

COA: $69,470

Current Rank: 46
Last Years Rank: 41

Pros:
-Solid clinics
-Low cost of living
-Good reputation in Mid-atlantic region
-great facilities
-decent job prospects

Cons:
-Mostly public interest jobs
-Geographically limiting
-Cannot claim in state tuition
-Need a car


UC Hastings Law
Scholarship: $18,000 per year

COA: $77,247

Pros:
-San Francisco location
-Intellectual Property market
-They have a Communications and Entertainment Law Journal
-They have a unique clinic that helps local start-up companies
-Historically good reputation in CA
-Ok big law placement
-Don’t need a car
-Out of state, but can claim residency for years 2 and 3.
-They reduced their class size, which shows they are a responsible law school

Cons:
-Sliding in the rankings since the 90s
-Tuition is very high and has been increasing
-Cost of living is very high
-*****Poor job prospects lately***
-They have a larger underemployment rate than employment.

Current Rank: 54
Last Years Rank: 48

[CoffeeIsLife]

I'm looking to work in IP at a big law firm, but I am also interested in clerkships. I currently have deposits down at BC, Hastings and Maryland and I am waiting to hear back from the GW and BU wait lists. If I had my choice I'd likely attend GW, though BC's employment prospects are very close when you remove GW's school funded jobs. Right now, I'm debating more so between BC and Hastings and leaning towards BC. Any advice other than those than the US News ranking slaves?


Here's my take:

Boston College Law
Scholarship: $18,000 per year

COA: $66,536

Current Rank: 36
Last Years Rank: 31

Pros:
-Solid reputation in MA and NY
-Potential national name recognition
-Good job placement
-Good placement in big law
-Ok placement in Federal clerkships
-Terrific teachers and administration

Cons:
-Cold weather
-Not much focus on IP
-Would need a car


Maryland Law
Scholarship: $12,500 per year

COA: $69,470

Current Rank: 46
Last Years Rank: 41

Pros:
-Solid clinics
-Low cost of living
-Good reputation in Mid-atlantic region
-great facilities
-decent job prospects

Cons:
-Mostly public interest jobs
-Geographically limiting
-Cannot claim in state tuition
-Need a car


UC Hastings Law
Scholarship: $18,000 per year

COA: $77,247

Pros:
-San Francisco location
-Intellectual Property market
-They have a Communications and Entertainment Law Journal
-They have a unique clinic that helps local start-up companies
-Historically good reputation in CA
-Ok big law placement
-Don’t need a car
-Out of state, but can claim residency for years 2 and 3.
-They reduced their class size, which shows they are a responsible law school

Cons:
-Sliding in the rankings since the 90s
-Tuition is very high and has been increasing
-Cost of living is very high
-*****Poor job prospects lately***
-They have a larger underemployment rate than employment.

Current Rank: 54
Last Years Rank: 48

Can you explain how you got COA under 100k for all three schools when you didn't post about full scholarships. Did you forget about COL or is someone else paying for it? It generally helps if you include the full total so people can give better advice.

[Otunga]

The COA numbers seem off unless you're getting funding elsewhere aside from loans. Either way, choose either BC or Maryland over Hastings. No question. Hastings is awful.

If you want biglaw and to work in the New England region, go with BC. BC gives you the best chance at biglaw and it's significantly better than at the other schools. If you don't want those things in conjunction, re-apply and/or don't go. If you want California, go to somewhere like Stanford or Berkeley, and if not them, then USC or UCLA. But again, the COAs don't seem accurate if you're funding purely through loans.

[WhiskeynCoke]

UC Hastings Law
Scholarship: $18,000 per year

COA: $77,247

Pros:
-San Francisco location
-Intellectual Property market
-They have a Communications and Entertainment Law Journal (who cares)
-They have a unique clinic that helps local start-up companies
-Historically good reputation in CA
-Ok big law placement
-Don’t need a car
-Out of state, but can claim residency for years 2 and 3.
-They reduced their class size, which shows they are a responsible law school

Cons:
-Sliding in the rankings since the 90s
-Tuition is very high and has been increasing
-Cost of living is very high
-*****Poor job prospects lately***
-They have a larger underemployment rate than employment.

Current Rank: 54
Last Years Rank: 48

Don't go to Hastings. You seem to already know why. Also, Hastings does NOT have "OK" big law placement (unless you call having to finish top 10% for a CHANCE at ANY firm "OK"). San Francisco is awesome though. I suppose you'll have a great shot at getting a decent retail or barista job with your Hastings law degree.

[RGR1417]

Sorry about that. The COA I listed is tuition and cost of living per year and the scholarships are also per year. Thanks for the input so far!

[francesfarmer]

Sorry about that. The COA I listed is tuition and cost of living per year and the scholarships are also per year. Thanks for the input so far!

All of your options are way too expensive.

[Nomo]

Sorry about that. The COA I listed is tuition and cost of living per year and the scholarships are also per year. Thanks for the input so far!

Please do not go. Given the prices, your goals, and the job stats you are essentially throwing your life down the drain.

I'll admit the market for IP lawyers seems a little better than for many other types (this is assuming you're someone with an actual science or engineer background), but its still not easy. These prices are just crazy. And its not your fault, BC, Hasting, and Maryland are fine schools in the abstract . . . but their tuition really should be around 10k. That's a reasonable number, and 40 years ago that's where tuition was (if not lower) after adjusting for inflation. Don't get trapped in the tuition bubble.

[RGR1417]

How well do BU and BC place on west coast? Any thoughts on which one has better name recognition in general?

[CoffeeIsLife]

How well do BU and BC place on west coast? Any thoughts on which one has better name recognition in general?

They don't place on the West Coast. You go to BU or BC to be in (New England area + New York)

Edited to fix location

[CoffeeIsLife]

5% of BU grads went to Cali and not enough to show up on LST went to Cali from BC
http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/bc/2013/
http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/bu/2013/

[RGR1417]

Ok thanks for the input. Also regarding my background, I went to college in DC, graduated in 2010 and have four years of work experience, one year in the U.S. Senate, one at a lobbying firm, one at a non-profit and I am currently working at a political intelligence firm that writes research for investors. I also grew up in New England have have some ties to the legal market there. If I ended up getting into BU and GW, which school would you all chose? BC, BU, or GW?

[Nomo]

Ok thanks for the input. Also regarding my background, I went to college in DC, graduated in 2010 and have four years of work experience, one year in the U.S. Senate, one at a lobbying firm, one at a non-profit and I am currently working at a political intelligence firm that writes research for investors. I also grew up in New England have have some ties to the legal market there. If I ended up getting into BU and GW, which school would you all chose? BC, BU, or GW?

The only thing that can move the needle is bringing cost down. Getting into BU or GW doesn't change a thing unless you can get the cost down at those schools.

[alicepaul]

How well do BU and BC place on west coast? Any thoughts on which one has better name recognition in general?

In 2013, BC placed 3.61% of its class (9 people) in the Pacific region (CA, OR, WA, HI, AK) in 2013 and 5.4% (14 people) in 2012. Similarly, BU placed 14 people in CA in 2013 and 27 people in 2012. Neither of these schools are great from placement in CA, but are really good for placement in Boston and New England in general.

[RGR1417]

In addition to scholarships, family is able to kick in $24k a year, and the remainder would be loans.

[Artie Vandelay]

Given your goals and the cost you're looking at, you shouldn't go to any of these schools.

If you're not willing to listen to those who tell you not to attend law school, I would make an effort to talk to some BC students/recent graduates before reaching the conclusion that the professors and administration are "excellent." If you've already done that, do it some more.

[BigZuck]

All the numbers you're throwing out don't really tell us much.

Here is what we care about: how much debt will you be in at graduation?

Please crunch those numbers (google the Georgetown law calculator) and get back to us.

Right now, all schools are looking to be too expensive. Also, don't go to a school outside CA if you want a job in CA (unless its a T14), and don't go to any school in CA that isn't Stanford, Berkeley, UCLA, and USC. The rest are almost never worth it, and they are never worth it if you want big law or a clerkship.

[RGR1417]

It seems that the overall consensus is drop Hastings.

It seems that if I definitely chose one of the two schools, BC would be worth the extra $1,600 due to job placement, rank, percentage in big law and location (I prefer Boston to Baltimore).


Here's the breakdown for Boston College. This includes $18k scholarship and $24k personal contribution per year.

Three Year COA:$202,962

Total Contribution:$126,000

Debt at Repayment:$88,434

Monthly Loan Payment:
10-year Plan
$1,041

Monthly Loan Payment:
20-year Plan
$702

Cumulative Payments:
10-year Plan
$124,867

Cumulative Payments:
20-year Plan
$168,406


Here's the breakdown for Maryland Law with $12.5k scholarship and $24k personal contribution per year.


Three Year COA:$184,974

Total Contribution:$109,500

Debt at Repayment:$86,700

Monthly Loan Payment:
10-year Plan
$1,019

Monthly Loan Payment:
20-year Plan
$687

Cumulative Payments:
10-year Plan
$122,334

Cumulative Payments:
20-year Plan
$164,904

[BigZuck]

BC is definitely worth 2K more than Maryland and as long as that 75K is just money burning a hole in your rich family's pocket then 88K debt at BC isn't the end of the world. I definitely wouldn't expect a clerkship and I wouldn't really expect big law either (unless the IP bump really does help that much) so make sure you have a backup if those two don't materialize. Also, plan on gunning for a job in Boston not the west coast.