Case Western Reserve ($$$) or Syracuse ($$$) Forum

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thehowlingfantods

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Case Western Reserve ($$$) or Syracuse ($$$)

Post by thehowlingfantods » Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:45 am

Case Western Reserve $32,000 per year scholarship, stipulation of Good Academic Standing.

Syracuse $25,000 per year scholarship, stipulation of Good Academic Standing


Case Western Reserve Total COA 3 years: $64,000

Syracuse Total COA 3 years: $67,000


Have better ties to Cleveland. Also have ties to Syracuse.

Can live with family in both regions during school.

No preference on residence after graduation.

These are my best options (Aside from retake, which I'm unable to do)

Any suggestions?

Which school does TLS like better?

nebula666

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Re: Case Western Reserve ($$$) or Syracuse ($$$)

Post by nebula666 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:13 am

Why can't you retake?

thehowlingfantods

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Re: Case Western Reserve ($$$) or Syracuse ($$$)

Post by thehowlingfantods » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:19 am

Just can't. Many reasons. I know that answer won't suffice for TLSers, and I accept that. But I genuinely do value the opinions on this website, I just do not have some of the excellent opportunities that some of the more knowledgeable posters do.

I just hoped to get some non-boomer advice on this decision because the Cleveland people tell me Case, and the New York people tell me Syracuse. I can't get an unbiased opinion.

I know most will say that these are poor options and don't even go.

But I am okay with MidLaw or Public Service, and to me this debt load is manageable.

Law has always been the career I aspired towards, and I know both of these schools are a 50/50 shot at ever becoming a lawyer.

But which one is a better 50/50 shot?

nebula666

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Re: Case Western Reserve ($$$) or Syracuse ($$$)

Post by nebula666 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:20 am

There's no way to compare them because they aren't peers. One gives you a coinflip chance of being a lawyer in Ohio. One gives you a coinflip chance of being a lawyer in New York. Neither gives you the opportunity to practice anywhere else. So if you are dead set on making a poor decision, go to wherever you would rather work.

thehowlingfantods

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Re: Case Western Reserve ($$$) or Syracuse ($$$)

Post by thehowlingfantods » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:22 am

That's really very helpful, thank you so much.

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francesfarmer

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Re: Case Western Reserve ($$$) or Syracuse ($$$)

Post by francesfarmer » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:25 am

thehowlingfantods wrote:Just can't. Many reasons. I know that answer won't suffice for TLSers, and I accept that. But I genuinely do value the opinions on this website, I just do not have some of the excellent opportunities that some of the more knowledgeable posters do.
This is a cop out and you're selling yourself short. What's holding you back?


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BankruptMe

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Re: Case Western Reserve ($$$) or Syracuse ($$$)

Post by BankruptMe » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:29 am

Case may be better. In Ohio, you have OSU, Case, Cincinnati and NKU across the river. The Toledo's and Dayton's stay within their respective cities. Smaller market, yet smaller competition.

Syracuse is a long way down the totem pole for NY recruiting, from what I hear. Only top 10% get big law. Top 25% get 50+ firms (per a cuse grad)

Either way, be prepared to possibly strike out and hustle for a job

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Re: Case Western Reserve ($$$) or Syracuse ($$$)

Post by thehowlingfantods » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:32 am

Thank you. I was hoping to hear insight actually geared toward these schools.


The LST score reports are very similar.

Is the LST report the only factor in decision-making?

Is it possible that the jobs Case grads get are better than the Syracuse grads?
Last edited by thehowlingfantods on Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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francesfarmer

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Re: Case Western Reserve ($$$) or Syracuse ($$$)

Post by francesfarmer » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:34 am

thehowlingfantods wrote:Yes. It's a cop-out. I just thought someone may have actual insight into either of these schools.
Hey, I'm just a stranger on the internet that wants you to reach your full potential. You know nobody here is going to tell you these are excellent options--though with full rides, I'm not going to tell you you're ruining your life or something.

You have LST. What more do you need?

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Re: Case Western Reserve ($$$) or Syracuse ($$$)

Post by thehowlingfantods » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:38 am

Hey FrancesFarmer,

I know you're just trying to help and you're correct. But some of us have other responsibilities that do not allow us to take another year off on this decision. Everything on TLS is about data, and that's the most honest and rational approach to making this decision. But we all don't fit into a preprogrammed category. The law is all about ambiguity and so are people. I realize its improper to offer advice based on individual circumstances, so we have to look at every potential candidate as archetypal "Law Student X." But in reality that is not the case. I may be setting myself up for a tongue-lashing about anecdote and unreliability of circumstances, and perhaps I deserve it, but these schools surely have some accomplished graduates.

Which of these schools has better upside for those who do win?

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BankruptMe

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Re: Case Western Reserve ($$$) or Syracuse ($$$)

Post by BankruptMe » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:41 am

BankruptMe wrote:Case may be better. In Ohio, you have OSU, Case, Cincinnati and NKU across the river. The Toledo's and Dayton's stay within their respective cities. Smaller market, yet smaller competition.

Syracuse is a long way down the totem pole for NY recruiting, from what I hear. Only top 10% get big law. Top 25% get 50+ firms (per a cuse grad)

Either way, be prepared to possibly strike out and hustle for a job
Top of Case get NY Big law per the career development center.

Smaller market, means less job opportunities, means less high profile options.

It just comes down to where you want to live really.

Just a note: If you are not willing to listen to TLS'ers in terms of the advice they provide, you should not ask. If you have read atleast 5 forums, you know what to expect, so why ask?

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francesfarmer

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Re: Case Western Reserve ($$$) or Syracuse ($$$)

Post by francesfarmer » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:50 am

I'm not gonna "tongue-lash" you, I ultimately don't care what choice you make, but I'm not going to validate your stubbornness in choosing between two schools that offer a marginal chance of a good outcome. You say you have other responsibilities and can't wait a year--is your future not your biggest responsibility?

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TheSpanishMain

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Re: Case Western Reserve ($$$) or Syracuse ($$$)

Post by TheSpanishMain » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:50 am

thehowlingfantods wrote: Which of these schools has better upside for those who do win?
For upstate NY or Ohio? You're sort of comparing apples and oranges.

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Re: Case Western Reserve ($$$) or Syracuse ($$$)

Post by thehowlingfantods » Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:09 am

Bankrupt Me,

You're absolutely correct. I probably should not have posted. But I'm a real human being that needs real advice on making a decision. And I value the opinions on TLS more than those of people who are removed from the crucible of law school admissions and legal employment. Nevertheless, my lot in life and the circumstances of my experience have left me with these two options. Will I be a SCOTUS clerk? No. Will I get BigLaw? Probably not. Do I want it? Not really.

But do I have a chance of earning a middle-class income from these schools if I work hard and am lucky enough to perform well? Will the debt-load be manageable if I am able to get a MidLaw job? Can I perhaps service my debt and live modestly, driving a simple car and living in a small home? These are the questions that permeate my brain.

Not everyone here is out for prestige, and not everyone is capable or blessed enough to be afforded some of the amazing opportunities people on this site have made for themselves.

Thanks to this site, I have successfully avoided Tier 3 scholarships with ridiculous stipulations. I have negotiated a scholarship increase. I have refused to take out Graduate Plus Loans. And I am grateful for all the kind people who have given me the honest-to-goodness truth, even though, at times, it's been hard to swallow.

By putting myself at the mercy of people who have much better prospects and opportunities than me, I have refused to walk blindly into a horrible decision. I genuinely value the opinions of people who do not give a damn about me, who think I'm rushing head-long into financial ruin and professional despair, and who believe I'll ultimately fail and start a demonstrative blog about how the law school scam takes yet another victim.

But I'm still here, and I still need advice.

So, ultimately we can turn this post into a massive joke? A Tier 2 and Tier 3 slugfest, wrestled on the bounds of ignorance and malfeasance.

Or, we can succumb to the FACT that the invisible Laws of human dynamics ring true at a level that does not tick like the U.S. News clocks. The world is made of clouds, heartily unpredictable. Perhaps enlighten yourself to the finer points of Chaos theory. What goes around comes around in this cycle of slip and slash. Trends, developments, REAL property: all fall to the hustle of lady luck's blind eye. With that in mind, I wish you all the very best of luck. I hope with all my heart that the more compassionate and loving of you sit on our benches and serve in our nation's courtrooms.

You people have forced me to grow through this process. You've irritated me beyond all conception. Made me feel small, and undesirable, and witless. Yet I stand here proud to say, with all due reverence and earnestness, that perhaps you have convinced one prospective Tier 2/3 to finally say what you've all been waiting for.............................Law School?


















FUCK IT, i'm out

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unodostres

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Re: Case Western Reserve ($$$) or Syracuse ($$$)

Post by unodostres » Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:19 am

Wtf is midlaw

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TheSpanishMain

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Re: Case Western Reserve ($$$) or Syracuse ($$$)

Post by TheSpanishMain » Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:37 am

thehowlingfantods wrote: You people have forced me to grow through this process. You've irritated me beyond all conception. Made me feel small, and undesirable, and witless. Yet I stand here proud to say, with all due reverence and earnestness, that perhaps you have convinced one prospective Tier 2/3 to finally say what you've all been waiting for.............................Law School?

FUCK IT, i'm out
Post your PS please. You seem like the entertaining kind of eccentric.

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thehowlingfantods

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Re: Case Western Reserve ($$$) or Syracuse ($$$)

Post by thehowlingfantods » Mon Jan 03, 2022 12:12 am

Went to Case. Made law review, coif, all that stuff. On track to make partner at an AmLaw 200. Paid off student loans in 2 years. Sometimes conventional wisdom doesn’t apply. Thanks again for your advice.

Access

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Re: Case Western Reserve ($$$) or Syracuse ($$$)

Post by Access » Mon Jan 03, 2022 12:22 am

I played Russian roulette and nothing happened to me. Clearly all the people who told me it was a bad idea were wrong.

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Re: Case Western Reserve ($$$) or Syracuse ($$$)

Post by laanngo » Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:30 am

thehowlingfantods wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 12:12 am
Went to Case. Made law review, coif, all that stuff. On track to make partner at an AmLaw 200. Paid off student loans in 2 years. Sometimes conventional wisdom doesn’t apply. Thanks again for your advice.
This board can be very blunt and bluntly misinformed. Cleveland has an oversized legal market for a city its size, which explains the greater opportunities than people expected. They also didn't take into account your interview and networking skills. From the way you've written, you seem like an earnest and passionate person - the kind of person who can interview well and score highly on exams. You've admitted both choices are poor, but acknowledge your ties which can and did get your foot in the door. I think so many people post so many similar prisoner's dilemmas that they get into the habit of reacting with disdain. Not their fault, but the idiots'.
Also, mind posting that PS?

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Re: Case Western Reserve ($$$) or Syracuse ($$$)

Post by nixy » Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:22 am

I mean what people here didn’t take into account was the OP ending up with top grades, because that wasn’t something that could be guaranteed/predicted. Pretty sure everyone would have agreed that the very top of the class at either school would have good options. But no one knows whether that will be them until they’ve already made the financial commitment for a year (given that grades often don’t come back until you’ve had to pay for the second semester). Also, being earnest and passionate has nothing to do with someone doing well on exams.

OP, congrats on the good outcome.

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Re: Case Western Reserve ($$$) or Syracuse ($$$)

Post by laanngo » Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:55 pm

nixy wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:22 am
being earnest and passionate has nothing to do with someone doing well on exams.
I meant that mostly in terms of interviewing well, but being passionate about the material and earnest in studying hard can earn you top marks.

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Re: Case Western Reserve ($$$) or Syracuse ($$$)

Post by nixy » Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:57 pm

laanngo wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:55 pm
nixy wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:22 am
being earnest and passionate has nothing to do with someone doing well on exams.
I meant that mostly in terms of interviewing well, but being passionate about the material and earnest in studying hard can earn you top marks.
I know that this is the most obnoxiously lawyerly answer, but passion and earnestness are neither necessary nor sufficient for earning top grades.

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Re: Case Western Reserve ($$$) or Syracuse ($$$)

Post by hds2388 » Mon Jan 03, 2022 6:55 pm

thehowlingfantods wrote:
Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:45 am
Case Western Reserve $32,000 per year scholarship, stipulation of Good Academic Standing.

Syracuse $25,000 per year scholarship, stipulation of Good Academic Standing


Case Western Reserve Total COA 3 years: $64,000

Syracuse Total COA 3 years: $67,000


Have better ties to Cleveland. Also have ties to Syracuse.

Can live with family in both regions during school.

No preference on residence after graduation.

These are my best options (Aside from retake, which I'm unable to do)

Any suggestions?

Which school does TLS like better?
I am from Syracuse, have extremely strong ties to SUCOL, and went to CWRU for my first year of law school. You can PM of you would like to discuss. I have a lot of insight, but will be easier to share via PM.

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Re: Case Western Reserve ($$$) or Syracuse ($$$)

Post by Wubbles » Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:03 pm

hds2388 wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 6:55 pm
thehowlingfantods wrote:
Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:45 am
Case Western Reserve $32,000 per year scholarship, stipulation of Good Academic Standing.

Syracuse $25,000 per year scholarship, stipulation of Good Academic Standing


Case Western Reserve Total COA 3 years: $64,000

Syracuse Total COA 3 years: $67,000


Have better ties to Cleveland. Also have ties to Syracuse.

Can live with family in both regions during school.

No preference on residence after graduation.

These are my best options (Aside from retake, which I'm unable to do)

Any suggestions?

Which school does TLS like better?
I am from Syracuse, have extremely strong ties to SUCOL, and went to CWRU for my first year of law school. You can PM of you would like to discuss. I have a lot of insight, but will be easier to share via PM.
This thread is from 2014, OP just bumped it to provide an update.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

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