NU - UCLA - CORNELL Forum

[ucla2017]

-The schools you are considering

Northwestern, UCLA, and Cornell.

-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator.

Northwestern = 120k
UCLA = 120k
Cornell = sticker

-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings

Loans.

-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)

Significant ties in SoCal. (LA). Also, I primarily want to work in Los Angeles, but also open to NorCal/Bay Area.

-Your general career goals

I want to be a District Attorney, but also want to work in CA Big Law/Federal Clerkships, if possible, before I go into the DA's Office.

-Your LSAT/GPA numbers/How many times you have taken the LSAT

Retook three times already.

[bk1]

You can easily cross of Cornell from your list. Your career goals seem strange. First, clerkships are unlikely from both the schools and shouldn't be a factor. Second, you want to go into biglaw before the DA's office? I could be wrong since I don't know a bunch about DA's offices, but I don't recall biglaw-->ADA being a typical route. IIRC, the best way to get hired as an ADA is to demonstrate interest in being an ADA through interning at a DA's office as much as possible. With that in mind, if you truly want to be an ADA then I'd take UCLA since it gives you the opportunity to intern in a SoCal DA's office throughout the year and not just during the summer like NU would.

If you really want biglaw then it depends. If you'd take NY biglaw over not getting biglaw at all then I'd say NU. If you wouldn't be willing to do NY biglaw under any circumstances then I'd take UCLA. I think that NU has a slight advantage in getting CA biglaw overall, but it's not really worth banking on and the main advantage NU has is in getting biglaw overall (i.e. getting biglaw in NY).

[09042014]

You can easily cross of Cornell from your list. Your career goals seem strange. First, clerkships are unlikely from both the schools and shouldn't be a factor. Second, you want to go into biglaw before the DA's office? I could be wrong since I don't know a bunch about DA's offices, but I don't recall biglaw-->ADA being a typical route. IIRC, the best way to get hired as an ADA is to demonstrate interest in being an ADA through interning at a DA's office as much as possible. With that in mind, if you truly want to be an ADA then I'd take UCLA since it gives you the opportunity to intern in a SoCal DA's office throughout the year and not just during the summer like NU would.

If you really want biglaw then it depends. If you'd take NY biglaw over not getting biglaw at all then I'd say NU. If you wouldn't be willing to do NY biglaw under any circumstances then I'd take UCLA.

I'm not sure UCLA is better than NU even for CA biglaw. If you UCLA was cheaper, that is the right call. But at same price, I think NU is the choice here.

[bk1]

I'm not sure UCLA is better than NU even for CA biglaw. If you UCLA was cheaper, that is the right call. But at same price, I think NU is the choice here.

Caught me before my edit. I do agree that NU's probably got at least a slight advantage for CA biglaw, but if OP's not willing to work in NYC then I think the advantage of UCLA in networking/interning/etc in CA to get CA non-biglaw jobs is worth it over the advantage that NU brings for CA biglaw.

[ucla2017]

Thanks for your inputs. I probably most likely will not go for NYC Big Law. The only reason I said CA Big Law was because I've talked to a few ADA's, and they told me they usually do not hire freshly-minted law school grads. They usually hire people with experience, and most likely those with white-collar crimes experience. Which is usually within BigLaw. Also, debt..

However, the reason I am going to law school is to become a prosecutor. UCLA I can intern during the year for DA, and possibly have another summer internship as back-up. NU I can't really do, but I was thinking maybe I can do it for Chicago's DA office? Not sure how that will look coming back to CA.

[Big Dog]

while NU is the 'better' school at the same price, I vote for the local school, bcos

Your general career goals

I want to be a District Attorney

[bk1]

Maybe CA DA's offices are different, but from the people I've talked to going in as an entry level is much more common than coming from biglaw. Hopefully someone with more experience on CA DA hiring can chime in. You might want to read up on this thread for any insight into hiring in CA.

Interning at a DA's office outside of CA is great for showing interest, but it doesn't get you into the office and get people to want you to be there like interning at an office in CA that you might actually work at would. I think that interning at an office that might hire you is so much more beneficial than interning at an office you don't intend to apply for.

[ucla2017]

That's true. Thanks for the advice. I am now highly leaning towards UCLA.

For CA BigLaw, you mentioned there is a slight advantage attending NU than UCLA. How significant is this difference?

[bk1]

That's true. Thanks for the advice. I am now highly leaning towards UCLA.

For CA BigLaw, you mentioned there is a slight advantage attending NU than UCLA. How significant is this difference?

It's hard to tell since it's not a sure thing. I know that a decent but not overwhelming amount of CA firms routinely have median callback GPAs that are around NU's median (same is true for other T14s where I've seen the data), but of course people around median also strike out every year.

[ucla2017]

That's true. Thanks for the advice. I am now highly leaning towards UCLA.

For CA BigLaw, you mentioned there is a slight advantage attending NU than UCLA. How significant is this difference?

It's hard to tell since it's not a sure thing. I know that a decent but not overwhelming amount of CA firms routinely have median callback GPAs that are around NU's median (same is true for other T14s where I've seen the data), but of course people around median also strike out every year.

Ahh okay that's true. So it would be a little risky either way. Thanks for the info bk1!!

[bk1]

Ahh okay that's true. So it would be a little risky either way. Thanks for the info bk1!!

It's risky since CA biglaw is not a guarantee from either place (and even NY biglaw isn't guaranteed at NU) even though your odds at CA biglaw are likely better at NU.

No problem. Best of luck.

[ucla2017]

I had one last question. One of my other goals is to work at the DOJ's office or some other federal prosecution office. Would NU or UCLA be a good choice then?

[bk1]

I had one last question. One of my other goals is to work at the DOJ's office or some other federal prosecution office. Would NU or UCLA be a good choice then?

DoJ/USAO are very competitive jobs. NU is probably somewhat advantageous since big city USAOs (e.g. CDCA/SDNY/etc) tend to hire out of biglaw and NU has an advantage in biglaw. Plus clerkships are also useful in reaching these types of jobs and NU tends to have a slight advantage in clerkships as well (though to take full advantage of this you would need to be willing to live almost anywhere in the country for 1 year and it is important to note that the vast majority of people even at NU don't have a good shot at a clerkship).

I don't think that getting to the DoJ/USAO should be a factor here unless you were willing to do NYC biglaw.

[ucla2017]

Ahh okay thank you again bk1!! I got a lot of stuff to think about.

[bk1]

May also want to check out this thread regarding DA's offices. Doesn't look like there's a ton of CA info but there is some (e.g. someone mentions that San Diego County highly prefers people who have interned there). If it seems that CA DA's offices don't hire many entry level attorneys, you should network and try to figure out where they usually tend to hire ADAs from.

As for DoJ/USAO, you should see this website. Most DoJ/USAO entry level hiring is done through the honors program and as you can see there are very few positions (and the number has been getting smaller every year). There are of course openings for experienced attorneys but in big cities these are often ex-biglawyers (though this of course is not universally true as some USAOs like to hire from the local DAs office).

[ManoftheHour]

OP, please go to UCLA so that I can get off reserve at Cornell and Northwestern.

But in all seriousness, UCLA because of this:

while NU is the 'better' school at the same price, I vote for the local school, bcos

Your general career goals

I want to be a District Attorney

[ucla2017]

Thanks for the websites bk1! I'll use this for future reference. So if I'm not willing to do NYC Big Law, then it would be a good idea to stay at UCLA for these goals (DA/DOJ, etc.).

ManoftheHour: Haha I will most likely withdraw soon. You can have my position! (Cornell def. withdraw).

[NorCalLaw]

You may have already pulled the trigger on this, but on the off-chance you haven't, I'd like to chime in.

UCLA is presently putting only ~66% of its grads into real, full-time law jobs and about 33% in biglaw (plus 7% clerkships), while NU is placing ~77% and 55% (plus 8% clerkships), respectively. I know your goals revolve around California, but I want to make sure you at least know the bottom line in terms of job prospects before making your decision. A median outcome at UCLA could be pretty bad for you, and DA jobs in big cities (see: LA) are quite competitive, but NU will probably at least line you up with a biglaw job. Good luck with whatever you choose!

Sourcing:

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ucla/
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=northwestern

[jbagelboy]

why do you want to be a prosecutor?

unless you have background in state or county gov't work, law enforcement, ect., I wouldn't bet the gap in career outcomes b/t NU and UCLA on the better shot at california DA's offices. I agree UCLA provides a better network for local gov't work, but most 0L's wouldn't be able to explain why this was a legitimate goal for them (and your ambivalent insertion of biglaw/clerkships makes me wonder). I'd much rather do NU OCI than UCLA.

[furrrman]

Did you show UCLA the NU scholarship? Based off your instate tuition I'm guessing NU's scholarship is bigger than what you got at UCLA. If you can get UCLA's COA down considerably it might be the right choice. Otherwise what bagelboy says seems pretty sensible.

[bizzike]

Believe it or not, the law and order theme music won't play when you start out prosecuting traffic tickets.

[zman]

NW

[Micdiddy]

Did you show UCLA the NU scholarship? Based off your instate tuition I'm guessing NU's scholarship is bigger than what you got at UCLA. If you can get UCLA's COA down considerably it might be the right choice. Otherwise what bagelboy says seems pretty sensible.

Slightly off point but this is definitely something you should do. UCLA absolutely will assume you're taking NU over them with equal scholarship amounts and will definitely give strong consideration to giving you more since they seem to already like you a lot.
Besides that I know next to nothing about DA hiring so will not comment and where you should go for that, but I will say keep in mind which school has (much) better second options if your dream job doesn't work out.

[tkim129]

If I were you, I'd rather go to UCLA over NU, so you can start networking the shit out of the region and intern/extern at the LA DA's office as much as humanly possible (especially during the school year). It's hard to make CA connections while in Illinois and from what I've heard, the LA DA's office has given soft-offers to 2L summer interns in the recent past.

Think about your application compared to the hundred others in the pile. Will it really make a difference that you went to NU (a slightly more prestigious school than UCLA) to the hiring attorney/committee at the LA DA's office?

Perhaps it does, but it clearly does not compare to having spent a large part of your law school career at that very office getting to know how work is done there and more importantly, the people you'd be working with (including the hiring attorney/committee members).

[TheSpanishMain]

Believe it or not, the law and order theme music won't play when you start out prosecuting traffic tickets.

It's not like the life of the first year Big Law associate sounds all that intellectually enriching/fulfilling either.