Depaul ($$$) vs Michigan State Forum

[LawSchoolRookie]

Hi Everyone!
i
I'm from Michigan, and plan to return to Michigan post graduation.

I've narrowed down my options to Depaul in Chicago and Michigan State. Depaul offered me a $60k scholarship, ($20k each year, no GPA requirement.) MSU did not offer me anything.

Stats DEPAUL MSU

COA $60,221 $44,189
SCHOLARSHIP ($20,000) 0
_________________________________________________________________________________
ADJUSTED COA $40,221 $44,189

RANK 109 87

I guess my dilemma is between wanting to live in a cool city instead of in a college town. But after drawing this all up, I guess I can see the answer is fairly clear. Go to the higher rank school in the area I plan to work in. Right?

Thoughts and insight are appreciated!

[Mullens]

You should not attend either at these schools and these prices. Retake the LSAT and go to a school that gives you a reasonable shot at actually becoming an attorney.

[nebula666]

Don't go a non-T14 school outside of Michigan if that's where you want to work. Retake for a at least a full ride at MSU / WSU if you definitely want to stay in the state. You should really be aiming for Michigan and above.

[Mack.Hambleton]

.

[LawSchoolRookie]

I'm a 5th year senior, so as much as I would like to retake and wait until the next admission cycle, i feel like I have already wasted enough time and just need to start!

Depaul offered me a $60,000 scholarship ($20k each year, renewable, no GPA requirement)
and Michigan State nothing.

I am from Michigan and plan to practice in Michigan, so MSU is my choice. Can I use the Depaul Scholarship to try to pull some money from MSU? Or do those two not really compete student wise?

Depaul's tuition is $44,515 and COA is $67,221.
MSU's tuition is $35,844 and COA is $44,189

My tuition deposit is due on May 1st for MSU and May 12th for Depaul.

Do I pay my MSU deposit and then negotiate? Or negotiate before then?

Please help!

[francesfarmer]

I'm a 5th year senior, so as much as I would like to retake and wait until the next admission cycle, i feel like I have already wasted enough time and just need to start!

Depaul offered me a $60,000 scholarship ($20k each year, renewable, no GPA requirement)
and Michigan State nothing.

I am from Michigan and plan to practice in Michigan, so MSU is my choice. Can I use the Depaul Scholarship to try to pull some money from MSU? Or do those two not really compete student wise?

Depaul's tuition is $44,515 and COA is $67,221.
MSU's tuition is $35,844 and COA is $44,189

My tuition deposit is due on May 1st for MSU and May 12th for Depaul.

Do I pay my MSU deposit and then negotiate? Or negotiate before then?

Please help!

Negotiate first. After you deposit, you will have lost any leverage you may have had.

But I would like to echo everyone else on this forum and urge you to retake. Do you think you're getting old at the ripe age of 23? Seriously? Sit out a cycle, retake and shoot for UMich.

[rwhyAn]

Take your deposit money and invest it in an LSAT prep class, retake, profit. This may literally save you over $100,000. You'll thank me later. Neither of these options are worth what you'd be paying.

[MT Cicero]

I'm a 5th year senior, so as much as I would like to retake and wait until the next admission cycle, i feel like I have already wasted enough time and just need to start!

Depaul offered me a $60,000 scholarship ($20k each year, renewable, no GPA requirement)
and Michigan State nothing.

I am from Michigan and plan to practice in Michigan, so MSU is my choice. Can I use the Depaul Scholarship to try to pull some money from MSU? Or do those two not really compete student wise?

Depaul's tuition is $44,515 and COA is $67,221.
MSU's tuition is $35,844 and COA is $44,189

My tuition deposit is due on May 1st for MSU and May 12th for Depaul.

Do I pay my MSU deposit and then negotiate? Or negotiate before then?

Please help!

I'm 33 and have served in a decade in the military. I'll be attending law school this fall. Also, my limbs are not falling off and I am able to walk without the aid of a third-party or medical devices.

You do not "just need to start." Do it right or don't do it. Money & options are real things.

[TheSpanishMain]

Is that 40k a year for MSU, or 40k total? Are you living with family or something?

40k total for MSU is not bad, imo. 120k for MSU is completely retarded.

Also, you seriously can't retake because you're a 5th year senior? So you're what, 23? Dude, you're practically a baby. You have nothing but time. Get a job, work for a year or two, and study for the LSAT. Most people don't go to law school straight from undergrad. You are NOT setting yourself back by waiting a year or two, despite what your baby boomer parents may tell you.

I'm 33 and have served in a decade in the military. I'll be attending law school this fall. Also, my limbs are not falling off and I am able to walk without the aid of a third-party or medical devices.

You do not "just need to start." Do it right or don't do it. Money & options are real things.

+1. I'm 30, also been in the military and worked professionally after graduating from undergrad (at Michigan State, incidentally.) My work experience and military service have been a huge asset so far. I'd much rather be in the position I'm in now as opposed to starting school as the clueless dope I was at 22.

[LawSchoolRookie]

Is that 40k a year for MSU, or 40k total? Are you living with family or something?

40k total for MSU is not bad, imo. 120k for MSU is completely retarded.

Also, you seriously can't retake because you're a 5th year senior? So you're what, 23? Dude, you're practically a baby. You have nothing but time. Get a job, work for a year or two, and study for the LSAT. Most people don't go to law school straight from undergrad. You are NOT setting yourself back by waiting a year or two, despite what your baby boomer parents may tell you.

I'm 33 and have served in a decade in the military. I'll be attending law school this fall. Also, my limbs are not falling off and I am able to walk without the aid of a third-party or medical devices.

You do not "just need to start." Do it right or don't do it. Money & options are real things.

+1. I'm 30, also been in the military and worked professionally after graduating from undergrad (at Michigan State, incidentally.) My work experience and military service have been a huge asset so far. I'd much rather be in the position I'm in now as opposed to starting school as the clueless dope I was at 22.

120k total, 40k a year.

[TheSpanishMain]

Yeah man, that's a bad, bad deal.

[filibuster]

OP:
Have you looked at the employment stats for Michigan State or DePaul on LST? You have a better chance of not being a lawyer than being a lawyer after graduation (45% LT/FL). What do you want to do after law school?

[bugsy33]

OP Please, for the love of God, do not go to either of these schools unless it's practically free. I went to MSU for undergrad and I love it to death, but you'd have to be crazy to attend the law school at full price. MSU is a hell of a school, and they have many strong programs. Law school is not one of those programs. If you're dead set on MSU then retake, get a 160+ and go for 75% off at least. Do things the right way: Work for a couple years, party on the weekends with friends and retake the LSAT.

[donewithannarbor]

If you must go now, go to DePaul and buckle down. Odds are good that your first job(s) will be in Chi, unless you are honors and really work your Michigan connections. MSU even with some money is a worse option.

But I don't love either option and think that if you want a good deal with the goal of practicing in Michigan, you need to aim for Wayne State and hopefully get a partial scholarship. With instate tuition and its better reputation among hirers, I think it's a very good option. And I will say that sticker at Wayne is a better option than sticker at MSU.

[jne381]

If you want to practice in Michigan, then go to MSU. I would prefer getting some money, but if these are your final two options, and the first sentence holds true, then go to MSU.

[timbs4339]

Retake. You don't have to go to law school now. Don't worry, there will still be some left in a year or two.

And for the love of god, you're going to drop six-figures and three years of your life on this investment, so do a real COA calculation. All three years, factoring in accrued interest, tuition hikes, origination fees, bar prep fees, etc etc. Don't just take the annual COA and multiply it by three.

[Gunnar Stahl]

OP Please, for the love of God, do not go to either of these schools unless it's practically free. I went to MSU for undergrad and I love it to death, but you'd have to be crazy to attend the law school at full price.

[Young Marino]

Hi Everyone!
i
I'm from Michigan, and plan to return to Michigan post graduation.

I've narrowed down my options to Depaul in Chicago and Michigan State. Depaul offered me a $60k scholarship, ($20k each year, no GPA requirement.) MSU did not offer me anything.

Stats DEPAUL MSU

COA $60,221 $44,189
SCHOLARSHIP ($20,000) 0
_________________________________________________________________________________
ADJUSTED COA $40,221 $44,189

RANK 109 87

I guess my dilemma is between wanting to live in a cool city instead of in a college town. But after drawing this all up, I guess I can see the answer is fairly clear. Go to the higher rank school in the area I plan to work in. Right?

Thoughts and insight are appreciated!

I would definitely start negotiating with MSU before you put anything down. It looks like at your current junction, MSU is just a little bit more expensive than DePaul would be. If that is the case, I'd take MSU especially if you want to work in Michigan.

I also wouldn't put a lot of stock into what this forum has to say. Anytime you're talking about options that aren't t14 everyone hits with that "retake" bullshit. Rather, I'd get out into the field, start building a network and talk to alumni from both schools about the school amd employment prospects. Yes LST is a great resource but there's nothing like getting advice from actual people who have been there done that before. Do what you want to do. There are plenty of student loan programs that can help you with repayment if you need it. Disregard the prestige whores who make up 90% of this forum

[TheSpanishMain]

I would definitely start negotiating with MSU before you put anything down. It looks like at your current junction, MSU is just a little bit more expensive than DePaul would be. If that is the case, I'd take MSU especially if you want to work in Michigan.

I also wouldn't put a lot of stock into what this forum has to say. Anytime you're talking about options that aren't t14 everyone hits with that "retake" bullshit. Rather, I'd get out into the field, start building a network and talk to alumni from both schools about the school amd employment prospects. Yes LST is a great resource but there's nothing like getting advice from actual people who have been there done that before. Do what you want to do. There are plenty of student loan programs that can help you with repayment if you need it. Disregard the prestige whores who make up 90% of this forum

"Data is great, but there's nothing like anecdotes!"

Look, I'm not one of these T14 or bust people you seem to think make up 90% of TLS. I think it's perfectly possible for the regional school at low cost to be a good move. This isn't a low cost. MSU Law does not put a decent number of its class into actual legal jobs. Not just not preftigious Big Law jobs: any legal jobs at all. I'm from Michigan and went to MSU for undergrad, so this isn't just me shitting on the place for no reason.

Why are you still here, anyway? You think the vast majority of TLS posters are wrong and just have prestige boners, so why are you still here/asking for advice? As an aside, look through some of the recent threads. You'll see a ton of people advocating turning down HYS and going for big scholarships at the lower T-14. That doesn't exactly jive with your "TLS just circlejerks to prestige" theory.

[metroidbum]

Hi Everyone!
i
I'm from Michigan, and plan to return to Michigan post graduation.

I've narrowed down my options to Depaul in Chicago and Michigan State. Depaul offered me a $60k scholarship, ($20k each year, no GPA requirement.) MSU did not offer me anything.

Stats DEPAUL MSU

COA $60,221 $44,189
SCHOLARSHIP ($20,000) 0
_________________________________________________________________________________
ADJUSTED COA $40,221 $44,189

RANK 109 87

I guess my dilemma is between wanting to live in a cool city instead of in a college town. But after drawing this all up, I guess I can see the answer is fairly clear. Go to the higher rank school in the area I plan to work in. Right?

Thoughts and insight are appreciated!

I would definitely start negotiating with MSU before you put anything down. It looks like at your current junction, MSU is just a little bit more expensive than DePaul would be. If that is the case, I'd take MSU especially if you want to work in Michigan.

I also wouldn't put a lot of stock into what this forum has to say. Anytime you're talking about options that aren't t14 everyone hits with that "retake" bullshit. Rather, I'd get out into the field, start building a network and talk to alumni from both schools about the school amd employment prospects. Yes LST is a great resource but there's nothing like getting advice from actual people who have been there done that before. Do what you want to do. There are plenty of student loan programs that can help you with repayment if you need it. Disregard the prestige whores who make up 90% of this forum

It's not prestige whoring, it's helping prevent him from going into six-figure debt for a job that will pay 50k, if he is lucky. As others have said, MSU's job numbers for becoming ANY sort of lawyer are pretty bad (36.9%) and are practically non-existent for the types of jobs he'd need to pay off that debt (5%).

If you think TLS is just "T14 or bust", you haven't been reading enough. The mantra is more along the lines of "top regional with a massive scholarship in the region you want to work, T14 with at least some scholarship, or bust".

[Nebby]

T14 if yo poor cuz you get that need aid!

[BigZuck]

Dan promised us he was quitting, WTF is he still doing here? Also I'm pretty sure literally no one told the OP to go to a T14, and the only T14 reference I caught was "Don't go to a non-T14 school outside of Michigan if your goal is to get a job in Michigan."

Seriously Dan, what is wrong with you?

OP-gotta retake or not go, these prices are way too high for what these schools will buy you.

[Young Marino]

Hi Everyone!
i
I'm from Michigan, and plan to return to Michigan post graduation.

I've narrowed down my options to Depaul in Chicago and Michigan State. Depaul offered me a $60k scholarship, ($20k each year, no GPA requirement.) MSU did not offer me anything.

Stats DEPAUL MSU

COA $60,221 $44,189
SCHOLARSHIP ($20,000) 0
_________________________________________________________________________________
ADJUSTED COA $40,221 $44,189

RANK 109 87

I guess my dilemma is between wanting to live in a cool city instead of in a college town. But after drawing this all up, I guess I can see the answer is fairly clear. Go to the higher rank school in the area I plan to work in. Right?

Thoughts and insight are appreciated!

I would definitely start negotiating with MSU before you put anything down. It looks like at your current junction, MSU is just a little bit more expensive than DePaul would be. If that is the case, I'd take MSU especially if you want to work in Michigan.

I also wouldn't put a lot of stock into what this forum has to say. Anytime you're talking about options that aren't t14 everyone hits with that "retake" bullshit. Rather, I'd get out into the field, start building a network and talk to alumni from both schools about the school amd employment prospects. Yes LST is a great resource but there's nothing like getting advice from actual people who have been there done that before. Do what you want to do. There are plenty of student loan programs that can help you with repayment if you need it. Disregard the prestige whores who make up 90% of this forum

It's not prestige whoring, it's helping prevent him from going into six-figure debt for a job that will pay 50k, if he is lucky. As others have said, MSU's job numbers for becoming ANY sort of lawyer are pretty bad (36.9%) and are practically non-existent for the types of jobs he'd need to pay off that debt (5%).

If you think TLS is just "T14 or bust", you haven't been reading enough. The mantra is more along the lines of "top regional with a massive scholarship in the region you want to work, T14 with at least some scholarship, or bust".

So if that's the case, why do I still get hit with "retake" when I'm attending my local regional that is king in my hometown on a fat scholly? Is it because it's a "tier 4" according to the flawed system used by US News when it places almost as well as a closely located tier 2 and better than an even closer located tier 3 in my state according to LST? Probably. So how does that not make these guys prestige whores? Zuck and Spanish Man are the prime example of this. OP, fuck it, go to MSU if you want but I would attempt to negotiate a scholly first as you have cash from DePaul.

[metroidbum]

.

[dsn32]

I would definitely start negotiating with MSU before you put anything down. It looks like at your current junction, MSU is just a little bit more expensive than DePaul would be. If that is the case, I'd take MSU especially if you want to work in Michigan.

I also wouldn't put a lot of stock into what this forum has to say. Anytime you're talking about options that aren't t14 everyone hits with that "retake" bullshit. Rather, I'd get out into the field, start building a network and talk to alumni from both schools about the school amd employment prospects. Yes LST is a great resource but there's nothing like getting advice from actual people who have been there done that before. Do what you want to do. There are plenty of student loan programs that can help you with repayment if you need it. Disregard the prestige whores who make up 90% of this forum

It's not prestige whoring, it's helping prevent him from going into six-figure debt for a job that will pay 50k, if he is lucky. As others have said, MSU's job numbers for becoming ANY sort of lawyer are pretty bad (36.9%) and are practically non-existent for the types of jobs he'd need to pay off that debt (5%).

If you think TLS is just "T14 or bust", you haven't been reading enough. The mantra is more along the lines of "top regional with a massive scholarship in the region you want to work, T14 with at least some scholarship, or bust".

So if that's the case, why do I still get hit with "retake" when I'm attending my local regional that is king in my hometown on a fat scholly? Is it because it's a "tier 4" according to the flawed system used by US News when it places almost as well as a closely located tier 2 and better than an even closer located tier 3 in my state according to LST? Probably. So how does that not make these guys prestige whores? Zuck and Spanish Man are the prime example of this. OP, fuck it, go to MSU if you want but I would attempt to negotiate a scholly first as you have cash from DePaul.

Young Marino, I have no idea as to the particulars of your case. For the OP, neither of these schools are good in their region. If the OP wants to work in Michigan, and can't get into UM, he should go to Wayne State on a full ride or near to it, or else not go. DePaul will not get him back to Michigan, not when Wayne State and MSU grads can't find jobs in the state.

Even if he decided to work in DePaul's region (Chicago) he'd be competing with Uchicago grads, NW grads, anyone else in the top 14 who wants to work in chicago, and graduates from the muck of schools such as Loyola-Chi, Northern Illinois, John Marshall, Chicago Kent, etc.

I think most posters here would say that Wayne State on a full scholarship would be a worthwhile option for the op; most of the advice anymore does NOT seem to be based on prestige whoring.

This. Wayne is very justifiable at 3/4-Full tuition scholly. MSU and DePaul are not justifiable ever. You're looking at a 1/3 shot at being a lawyer from there. I would definitely recommend re-take and go to Wayne.