UMich v. UIUC v. WUSTL-- With New COA Forum

[ZGr88n]

-The schools you are considering + COA (used lawschool22’s spreadsheet)
University of Michigan- 125-135k
University of Illinois- 45k
WUSTL- 80k
*Sorry for the gap, personal reasons currently keep me from getting the COA window smaller.
**These numbers are with me contributing zero income

-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
Loans

-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
From WV & Illinois—Significant ties in both
I’m open to just about anywhere after graduation, but the thought of being limited to just Illinois scares me for some reason.

-Your general career goals
Clerkship>PI/BigLaw>Govt/Midlaw
I think I have decent W.E. for a K-JD (nothing too outstanding though). I’ve held 2-3 jobs at a time through just about all of UG.

-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
+3.8 164

-How many times you have taken the LSAT
Twice. Will be retaking in June, just deciding on my options now in case my score doesn’t increase.
I know where I’m leaning, but just curious as to what you all think? Any advice is greatly appreciated.
Please don’t quote.

[cron1834]

Are you URM? I ask because 164 is low for Mich. If so, literally a few more questions on the retake could get you some explosive growth in T14 options if you sat out.

Mich is the only one of these options that gives you more than a passing chance at your goals. However, $125k - $150k is a big swing. I might consider Mich myself at $120ish, but not at $150ish.

You and I are in a similar boat in that I have an expensive T14 option, and I'll probably deposit there, but I'm not sure what I'll actually do until July 7 (score report day!).

[ZGr88n]

The money I'm getting from M is need-based. It'll take a significant boost for me to get that kind of t14 merit aid, but I have nothing to lose with a retake so why not.

I also have a SO who will be helping with COA, and that is part of the reason why I can't nail down the total COA right now. However, I'm pretty confident I can keep Mich at least in the 135-140 range (worst case scenario).

What t14 are you considering?

[muskies970]

Where all did you apply?
And are you a URM?

[ZGr88n]

Where all did you apply?
And are you a URM?

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/ZGr88n

Some scholly numbers need updated.

Edit: I'm not URM

[muskies970]

Michigan is obviously your best option right now, but definitely retake in June and reassess your options then. I don't think Michigan for 125-150k is too bad of an outcome, especially with its great LRAP program for public interest if you go that route.

Michigan has also cut its class size by ~60 students and increased its median gpa, and I predict its percentage of students in biglaw will continue to rise accordingly.

[ZGr88n]

Michigan is obviously your best option right now, but definitely retake in June and reassess your options then. I don't think Michigan for 125-150k is too bad of an outcome, especially with its great LRAP program for public interest if you go that route.

Michigan has also cut its class size by ~60 students and increased its median gpa, and I predict its percentage of students in biglaw will continue to rise accordingly.

Pretty much my line of thinking right now. It's just hard for me to fathom +100k of debt as being a good outcome, granted I know for my #'s their offer is fantastic.

[cron1834]

The money I'm getting from M is need-based. It'll take a significant boost for me to get that kind of t14 merit aid, but I have nothing to lose with a retake so why not.

I also have a SO who will be helping with COA, and that is part of the reason why I can't nail down the total COA right now. However, I'm pretty confident I can keep Mich at least in the 135-140 range (worst case scenario).

What t14 are you considering?

Oh shit, I didn't realize so much of that was need-based. That complicates things, because if you sat out and reapplied your tax returns might be different the next time around.

I'm considering Cornell.

[ZGr88n]

The money I'm getting from M is need-based. It'll take a significant boost for me to get that kind of t14 merit aid, but I have nothing to lose with a retake so why not.

I also have a SO who will be helping with COA, and that is part of the reason why I can't nail down the total COA right now. However, I'm pretty confident I can keep Mich at least in the 135-140 range (worst case scenario).

What t14 are you considering?

Oh shit, I didn't realize so much of that was need-based. That complicates things, because if you sat out and reapplied your tax returns might be different the next time around.

I'm considering Cornell.

Yeah it really does complicate things. I'd really have to see a pretty large score jump in order to reapply next year because if I sit out I will defiantly get a FT job and my SO will go from PT to FT as well. So it's unlikely that I would see much if any need-based aid next cycle if it came to that.

[Nomo]

Michigan, unless you kill it on the retake.

[transferror]

Michigan, unless you kill it on the retake.

[ZGr88n]

Michigan, unless you kill it on the retake.

Thanks guys

Nice to see people actually taking the need-based aid seriously and not just hitting me with the retake+reapply no matter what mantra.

[transferror]

Michigan, unless you kill it on the retake.

Thanks guys

Nice to see people actually taking the need-based aid seriously and not just hitting me with the retake+reapply no matter what mantra.

Ha, well it wouldn't do any good since you'll be taking it for the 3rd time in June. I suppose you could sit out, study longer and take it in October, but there's no reason to sit out unless you nail the June retake since UM at <150k is a decent option. Also, I know you're opposed to being trapped in Illinois, but UIUC is pretty sexy at 50k or less. They place really well in Chicago biglaw for their rank (biglaw + fed clerk = 28%). It's one of the most under ranked regional schools in the nation, and 50k for more than a 1/4 chance of biglaw isn't bad, especially since it'll cost you about 100k to double those odds and have more national reach at UM. I only voted UM because the actual price (150k) isn't bad and it checks all your boxes, but the relative price still bugs me.

[ZGr88n]

Michigan, unless you kill it on the retake.

Thanks guys

Nice to see people actually taking the need-based aid seriously and not just hitting me with the retake+reapply no matter what mantra.

Ha, well it wouldn't do any good since you'll be taking it for the 3rd time in June. I suppose you could sit out, study longer and take it in October, but there's no reason to sit out unless you nail the June retake since UM at <150k is a decent option. Also, I know you're opposed to being trapped in Illinois, but UIUC is pretty sexy at 50k or less. They place really well in Chicago biglaw for their rank (biglaw + fed clerk = 28%). It's one of the most under ranked regional schools in the nation, and 50k for more than a 1/4 chance of biglaw isn't bad, especially since it'll cost you about 100k to double those odds and have more national reach at UM. I only voted UM because the actual price (150k) isn't bad and it checks all your boxes, but the relative price still bugs me.

Exactly the reason why I haven't been able to reach a for sure decision. While UMs price is manageable, UIUCs is awesome(ish). I guess it comes down to how much I'm willing to pay for a more national reach.

[transferror]

Exactly the reason why I haven't been able to reach a for sure decision. While UMs price is manageable, UIUCs is awesome(ish). I guess it comes down to how much I'm willing to pay for a more national reach.

I also don't know if it would bug you to be "average." If it is absolutely unacceptable to work small law in the burbs outside of Chicago, then UIUC is a little scary since you'll need to be top 15-20% to make sure you are competitive for biglaw. If you have to fall back on a 50k small law gig, your debt will be manageable, but will you be happy or at least not miserable with that outcome? Median at UM isn't a great, but biglaw is still possible. If you're biglaw or bust, UM is the right/safer decision. If not, UIUC is viable with nice upside and very little risk.

[ZGr88n]

Exactly the reason why I haven't been able to reach a for sure decision. While UMs price is manageable, UIUCs is awesome(ish). I guess it comes down to how much I'm willing to pay for a more national reach.

I also don't know if it would bug you to be "average." If it is absolutely unacceptable to work small law in the burbs outside of Chicago, then UIUC is a little scary since you'll need to be top 15-20% to make sure you are competitive for biglaw. If you have to fall back on a 50k small law gig, your debt will be manageable, but will you be happy or at least not miserable with that outcome? Median at UM isn't a great, but biglaw is still possible. If you're biglaw or bust, UM is the right/safer decision. If not, UIUC is viable with nice upside and very little risk.

I'm not big law or bust at all. I come from a very very poor family, so being "average" would probably be quite a step up from what I'm used to. If I decided to attend UIUC I would more then likely gun for PI or some kind of Gov't gig instead of Big Law. Big Law would be something that comes into play if I go to UM and go +100k in debt.

[ZGr88n]

Bump--new (slightly changed/narrowed) COA Numbers.